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Interested in a longarm - need advice


dbustle

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Hello!  I would LOVE to have a longarm machine, but am on a very limited budget - $3,000-$4,000 max and am sold on APQS machines.  I have read and researched this forum and appreciate all the information shared.  Based on what I've read, I'm thinking a good used Ultimate I or Ultimate II should be obtainable in that price range.  There are a couple currently listed on this forum under used machines, but are not close to me - I live in Southern Indiana. 

 

At this point, I'm really only interested in being able to quilt my own work.  Maybe after a LOT of practice I might consider quilting for others, but the idea of trying to please someone else kind of scares me. 

 

Anyway, on such a limited budget I realize I probably won't be able to get a machine with a stitch regulator and that is one of my biggest concerns.  All the models I have ever tried had a stitch regulator, so I'm not sure how a machine works without one and how hard it is to learn to quilt without it.  I'm hoping someone with experience in this area will provide some input.  I know everyone is different, but am really interested to hear others experience with this.  Adding a stitch regulator isn't something I could afford - at least not for a while.  I'm wondering if I would be better off saving my $ until I can afford a machine with SR?  I'm really anxious to get a longarm, but don't want to make a mistake. 

 

Also, is one machine easier/better to learn on than the other?  (Ultimate I vs. Ultimate II)  I've learned that the Ultimate I has a bigger throat space, they have different feet, and the Ultimate II typically has a wood/metal combo table vs. metal for the Ultimate.  What are the other pros and cons of one model over the other?  Is one model "better" than the other?  How does horizontal wheels on the UI vs. vertical wheels on the UII affect ease of use?  Does that even make a difference?

 

Does anyone have experience with having a machine shipped?  Is it something that should even be considered?    

 

Thank you SO much for taking the time to read this.  PLEASE share your experience and advice!  I need all the help I can get! 

Dawn

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There is a George, sit down machine for $3000.  It is brand new.  There are several Ultimate I and Ultimate II machines.  They are both great and would be well worth $4000

 

As far as one over the other I can't say because I only have experience with the Ultimate II, but I can say that it is an excellent machine to learn on.  It is what I used for years.  I am glad I did.  I learned how to control the machine's movements and speed without a stitch regulator, and I think that made my quilting better. Now that I have a stitch regulator I find the machine is harder to move and my designs aren't nearly as nice.  I find myself turning it off sometimes,even.

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I had a machine shipped.  It was a good experience, not a great one.  The company actually misdirected the machine which made delivery take another day.  That wasn't too awful, but since I was so anxiously awaiting the delivery wasn't fun.  I did have one of the plastic table top pieces damaged and the shipper paid damages.  It cost a few hundred dollars but was better than making a trip from Iowa to Houston.  Good luck on your search.  I waited 2 years until just the right used machine appeared here on the forum.

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I bought a used Ultimate 1 two years ago and it was the best decision of my life to be quite honest.  My budget was $5,000 - as a stay at home Mom it was the only way I could afford to get into the world of long arming and I really didn't want a Voyager on a Hinterberg frame or a Handi Quilter 16...which was really my only option outisde of the APQS.

 

If quilting for myself I would have gone with an Ultimate II.  But I knew I wanted to make some extra income - even if I was a horrible quilter I figured SOMEONE would pay me a few bucks to quilt their giant king size quilt that they couldn't complete themselves on their domestic machine at home.  So I tried to get the largest throated machine with the biggest frame I could afford.

 

I do not regret my decision AT ALL.  There are days I want to pull my hair out but I truly believe that would happen with ANY machine I would have bought.  The great thing about APQS is that you can call them or come here and get help no matter how old your machine is or how many owners your machine has had.  They have a lifetime warranty on new machines bought directly form them and if you decide you want to upgrade you can always trade in (on an Ulti 1 at least) the machine had directly to APQS (though of course, for a fraction of what you'd sell it outright for).

 

Regarding stitch regulation.  I still lust after S/R.  It actually looks like I'm going to add an after market stitch regulator this February - and while that option is available to you I don't know how long it will be.  After talking to IntelliStitch (the only option in after market regulators) they are moving away from installations...so I suspect at some point it will either be really difficult or not at all available.  I do not know if that is a fact or not, but something to think about.

 

Do I think you HAVE to have stitch regulation?  No.  I honestly do not.  The ONLY reason I want stitch regulation is because I run a business and a lot of my clients want very detailed pantographs.  You CAN do pantographs without S/R but the tighter more detailed pantos are really difficult if not impossible to do without it.  Also there are a lot of products like pattern boards and the Circle Lord, things like that you really need S/R for.

 

That being said if your budget is what you have shared, I think you have to decide for YOU how badly you want S/R and honestly you might just not know until after you start quilting.  I do NOT regret getting a machine without it...but I also design and sell pantographs so it's a part of my income and important to me to be able to stitch them out nicely!  :)

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OH - and I would be leery about shipping a machine unless you really trust who is shipping it.  That's just me personally.

 

I would guess the Ulti II might be a little easier to maneuver as it's a 20" throat and just by default weighs less...but my first experience was with a 26" throated machine with a thread cutter and I'm doing just fine.  IT TAKES PRACTICE and there will be no easy way around that.  It's just fact...expect to sew squares instead of circles for a while and to put some time in...but the rewards are great!   :)

 

Edited to add (I've said so much already LOL) - I believe Ulti II's and Ulti I's both came with vertical composite wheels...I have the original ones for mine but the previous owner used Edgeriders.  I would say Edgeriders or M and M wheels are worth the $200 investment in regards to movement.  You may even find some used for sale here on the forum or others from folks who've upgraded to Bliss.

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Dbustle:  I don't think you need to wait til you can afford a stitch regulated machine.  Unregulated machines work just fine.  You just can't do as much artful work with them (maybe you can and it's just more difficult).  At any rate, I would consider buying one.  I own an Ult 2 and am very fond of them.  They have vertical wheels that require no adjustment.  After market wheels are getting hard to find these days, but there's a good chance a machine might already be so equipped. The Ult 1 has horizontal wheels.  They are more problematic and do occasionally require adjustment, but work just fine.  After market wheels are offered and easily found.  

 

The Ult 2 does not have a hopping foot.  The presser foot is spring loaded and "scoots" rather than hops.  The Ult 1 has a hopping foot.  There are advantages to each system.  The Ult 2's foot does tend to catch on seams, but is easily moved so the issue can be managed.  The hopping foot of the Ult 1 doesn't catch as much, but is much more difficult to adjust.  I'm not sure about the Ult 1's foot, but I know some of the later machines feet are aluminum, and easily damaged.  I think pantographs might be more difficult to do on the Ult 2, but folks do do them, so it's not something that can't be overcome.  I don't do pantos, so I really don't know.

 

The Ult 2 has a 20" throat which in the original table configuration gives you about a 16" sewing "field".  The Ult 1 has a 26" throat, and probably gives you 19 or 20 inches of field, I'm not sure.  Properly set up, either machine moves effortlessly.  Bigger is usually better, but the Ult 2's "reach" is certainly adequate. 

 

There is nothing wrong with the wooden tables the Ult 2 came with, so don't let that influence your decision.  I don't think the Ult 2 was ever offered with anything else.  The Ult 1 on the other hand was offered with more than 1 table variation.  The set up with the leveling roller would be more convenient to use.  Otherwise, convenience would be the same ( you have to adjust the take up roller position as you advance the quilt).  I think the Ult 2 was only offered with a 12' table.  The Ult 1 may have been offered in custom lengths.  Neither have electronic channel locks.  The Ult 1 may or may not have a thread cutter.  Some folks like them some don't ever use them.  Both machines are very durable, and the machine support by APQS has been outstanding.

 

I bought my machine here on the forum.  I had it shipped from Florida to Texas.  The whole process took me 3 to 4 weeks to accomplish.  I contracted with an on line shipping service called U-ship.  You list the item you want moved, and independent haulers bid on the job.  The haulers offer different levels of service, and you choose which ever option that suits you best.  My experience was great.  The fellow who moved my machine did a great job.  It cost me $550. 

 

Either of these machines are up gradable.  That's to say they can have features added to them as you wish.  Intellistitch offers stitch regulator up grades, and I think APQS will put stitch regulators on Ult 1's.  They won't on the Ult 2.  Mechanically, there is nothing wanting on either machine.  You don't have to "throw them away" because their outdated.  I have no regrets for buying my Ult 2.  I've done a lot of modifications to it, and feel that it offers me more than any new machine that APQS sells.  Computer regulation is offered by Intelliquilt for either machine.  You need not worry that you wasted your money by not buying a more elaborate machine to begin with.

 

Well those are my humble opinions.  There's a very attractive Ult 1 being currently offered on the forum.  Consider it.  Good luck in your search.  regards.  Jim

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relative newbie here.....I have used mainly stitch regulation and I do like it....but I intend to try using my machine with the regulator turned off...reason...both the machines I have used move smoother with the stitch regulation off.....I just took a class from Karen McTavish and we were doing feathers....she had us try it with the SR turned off...it really was easier and smoother to move...she has a millie....my stitch length wasn't too bad even not regulated but it will take a bit before I can get them more consistent..looks like I move a tad faster when coming towards myself....she also advised to use the SR when doing ruler work..because you usually are changing directions and moving the needle...one thing with the SR off is that the needle keeps moving even if you have stopped moving the head so you end up getting knots and breaking the thread...but...you need to learn then to push the stop button when you are stopping stitching so there is definitely a learning curve....actually...I think there is a learning curve to using the SR too....bottom line...seems there are places SR works best and where not have SR works better...I know in my sit down domestic machine, that I have a SR but it really does move even easier with it off...my stitches however are more uneven...so I think using a long arm without stitch regulation is easier than using a sit-down machine without it.....but the learning curve is definitely a bit steeper without it..a lot of the really good quilt artists both sit-down and long arm work without SR on because of the greater control it offers...but...they really have spent the time learning this...Lin

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Eons ago I purchased an Ult 1 with the IntelliStitch (stitch regulator) already added on.  I am the third owner of this machine.  I had been looking at houseofhanson.com and thinking about which brand I might want and how much I could afford to spend, etc.  Then a machine came available only an hour away from my home.  The seller was a terrific lady who was upgrading to a 36" Gammil machine.  36"!!!  Yikes!  Anyway, I digress.  I tested the machine a couple of times and she gave me lessons on how to load a quilt, how to warm up the machine, and she let me play with the machine and get the feel of it.   I was sold!  It was the best decision I could have made.  I have no regrets at all.

 

At first, well ..... I too made the most perfect square circles around.  lol.  (you'll get this one after you play with your new machine for a while).  I didn't think I would ever get the hang of it and feel comfortable with it enough that I could start working on customer quilts, but with practice, practice, and more practice I was able to build my skills and confidence.  Get charity quilts from your local quilt store.  You get to practice your quilting and they get quilts done for free to help their charity.  It's a win-win. 

 

Recently I was considering upgrading to the latest Millennium, but after talking to Amy of APQS, she told me that the Ult 1 has most of the same features as the Millie, same motor, same gear and drive mechanisms, etc.  She said if my Ult 1 was working well for me, since I already had the stitch regulator, I wouldn't need to upgrade to the Millie.  I love that the APQS staff is so honest and helpful!!!!  Can't say enough good things about them.  I don't think you will find that level of customer support anywhere else.  ....and then of course there are all these wonderful ladies and gentlemen on the forum.  APQS is like one big family.....have you got all of your Christmas shopping done yet? ;)

 

A friend of mine recommended that I start practicing with non-stitch regulated mode and see how much better I can do custom work.  I'll be honest, I was a bit horrified at first, but I've been playing with it.  What I found was that if I maintain a constant speed while moving the machine around, I get a consistent stitch.  I AM THE STITCH REGULATOR! :ph34r:  (I fell like I should be wearing a cape or at least carrying a magic wand).  This too takes practice, practice, and more practice, but with a few more charity quilts, I'm sure this will become as comfortable as using the stitch regulated mode. 

 

One little tip (okay, it's a huge tip) -- spend the extra money to get the Edge Rider wheels or the APQS M&M wheels.  The EdgeRider wheels cost less than the APQS M&M wheels, and wow! they work Grrrrrrreat!  What a difference over the last upgraded wheels I bought.  The composite wheels work just fine, but there is a bit of drag with them.  The EdgeRider wheels and the M&M wheels are very hard plastic and when clean work like a hot knife through butter.  What a huge difference!  Now I have to learn that I don't have to pull my machine around the frame, it just glides.  It's a dream. 

 

Another big consideration is the size of the frame you want to get.  Used machines typically come with one choice.  You may think that a 10' frame will work well, just remember that you won't be doing any king size quilts on it.  A 14' frame can take on any size quilt, but takes up a huge amount of space in your house.  In general, take a look at the available space you have and figure out which size frame will work best in that space.  Remember you will need walk around room so add at least three feet to all sides (for a 10' frame, you can figure that you need a space of at least 16'x12').  Larger frames will need even more space.  You want to be comfortable when you are working on your machine and not cramped.  Need room to set that glass of wine (trust me it helps with your first few quilts --- a little music, a glass of wine, breathe, relax, and quilt --- ahhh).

 

Whatever decision you make, you won't be sorry.  APQS makes quality machines and they have the customer support and service to help you with whatever situation you run into.  Best of luck to you. 

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As far as the stitch regulator, it is all in what you practice with. It will be like just with learning, practice practice practice. Lots of quilters don't have stitch regulation, including those who quilt on dsm, I use both. If you currently use your dsm and love it then go forge ogre. If it's not for you go with the ultimate. Buy the best machine for you in your price range. Wether you buy directly from APQS or from someone with an APQS the customer support is there and I like that. Make a road trip/vCation to pick one up, or they can be shipped. Another option is Dave Jones picking it up and setting it up for you.

Good luck in your search.

Shirley

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WOW!!  THANK YOU soooo very much to everyone for sharing your wisdom!  I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the information and tips.  You've given me a lot to think about, but it really sounds like I can't go wrong with either machine.  You've also made me feel a lot more comfortable about considering a machine without stitch regulation.  Sounds like lots of practice, practice, practice.  :)   I love knowing that I can come to this forum for help! :D

 

Thank you!!

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Stick to your guns about ANY of the AQPS machines.  Their products are miles ahead of the competition & anything else available on the market.  Not just the machine but all the gizmos and gadgets in regard to loading a quilt which for a beginner is also challenging.  I have a Lenni and couldn't be happier. For me the stitch regulator was an absolute must.  I had a Singer non-stitch regulated machine for a couple of years previously and the Lenni compared to it is like comparing a really nice Lincoln Continental to a Yugo.  I am south of Indianapolis, and there is a APQS dealer in Louisville, Angela Huffman @ Quilting Joy - you should go talk to her if you haven't already. Her shop is out in the Hurstbourne area, east end.  Keep in mind  Its not about just making the initial purchase, its also about continued learning/growing and support when there are issues.  Angela has classes, which I hope to sign up for in 2015.  Good luck from a fellow newbie!

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I am SOOOOO excited!!!!  Would you believe the Ultimate II "Sewfree21" mentioned above (I tried to quote her post but couldn't figure out how LOL) is now in my basement!!!!!  :D I saw it not long after my original post and almost couldn't believe it.  It was even below budget!  The lady bought it new and had recently downsized.  She actually had 2 machines and no longer had room for both of them.  It has the original wheels, so I'm guessing those will probably need to be replaced?  It also came with a Hartley Fence.  I have no idea how that works, but guess I will figure that out in time.  Now to rearrange the basement, get it set up, get all the goodies I need to get started and practice, practice, practice!!  I am SOOO excited!!

 

2quilter:  I actually went to Angela Huffman's November Roadshow in Louisville and hope to go to some of her classes next year.  I have a feeling I may be making regular trips to her studio.  :) I would loved to have splurged for a new Millie, but just don't have the funds for it.  Louisville is about 1.5 hours from me, so we may not be far from each other. 

 

I'm sure I'm going to have lots of questions for the experts on this forum and will try not to make a pest of myself. :)

 

Thanks again to everyone for sharing your advice and recommendations.

 

Did I mention that I'm excited!!!????

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Dbustle:  For the time being the original wheels (kind of a dark brown color) will probably serve you OK.  Edge Rider wheels offered by Kasa Engineering (Intellistitch / Intelliquilt) -white in color- are great, but their availability is questionable.  After you get used to your machine and discover that sometimes it doesn't go where you wanted it to, then you're ready for replacement wheels.  I wouldn't bother with new stock wheels.  Their design is lacking.  Rather I'd go for after market ones.  At that time, if you can't get Edge Riders, contact me, and I'll have some suggestions on alternatives.   

 

You're going to love that Ult 2.  There's nothing that will go wrong with it that you can't fix yourself.  In my experience, the little machine (Ult 2, Discovery, Lenni, Liberty) is a bit easier to use than the bigger ones.  You don't have as much reach, but the machine is easier to control.  Good luck.  Jim

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Thank you for the warm welcome and well wishes.  We got the machine set up today without any trouble.  I forgot to mention that the plastic pantograph shield got torn up on the way home, so that will need to be replaced, but that is minor. (We hauled it home in the back of our pickup truck and the wind caught it.  Didn't even think about that until it was too late.)

 

jimerickson: The wheels are definitely the original ones.  The machine seems to roll pretty easily, but I haven't quilted with it yet.  Will just have to see how it goes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dbustle:  Don't bother getting a replacement panto shield until you know that you're going to do pantos.  You can learn without the cover by just taping the panto in place.  If you decide that you're going to do them a lot, then get the replacement.  If you decide that you're not going do them much, don't bother.  I've remove mine because I rarely (like never) do pantos.  Your little Ult 2 will serve you well.  You didn't make a mistake buying it.  Good luck.  Jim

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