Quilting business partnership???

[dnice]

I have an opportunity to be a partner with a person that would like to add a second longarm to her business. It sounds like a good opportunity but for some reason I just can not yet part with the money and take the leap.

The leap would mean that I own the machine but it must stay in the shop for about a year. I am a renter of her machine and enjoying building on my longarm abilities.

What types of questions should I be asking? Is a partnership in longarm quilting the way to get a business started?

[Mary Beth]

It could be a good way to get into business. Since you already know how to LA quilt, do you have a customer base? Do you have room for the machine at your home? Is that something you would consider?

Here is my take, and it is just something to think about. Sometimes very good relationship/friendships are destroyed when people go "into business together". Even though you don't see it now, there can be a competitive side to people that can get ugly. Eventually it can ruin a great friendship.

You need to know how the customer base will work. Who will be using "your" machine? You didn't say, is this in a quilt shop? Why do you need to leave the machine at her place of business for a year? So that means you can only quilt at her convenience? Wow, that is another thought! If that machine is in her home, and she has something come up where you can't be there, and you have a deadline...what then?

How experienced are you a quilting? I feel like I am rambling now. I think we need more information about this venture, before we can actually give you some good questions to ask.

[SandraC]

I have many thoughts on the matter, too...but here is one.....I find that I rarely go at a quilt for "x" amount of hours at a time. I'll quilt for an hour, run an errand, back at the quilt, have lunch, quilt a bit more, etc...

I think if my machine was somewhere else and I had to go to it and devote 5 or 6 hours at it at a time, I don't think it would be as enjoyable for me.

Before I got my Liberty, it was an idea to share it at a different location. My darling husband encouraged me to go for it on my own, and, boy, am I glad I did! Then I can squeeze a little bit of work in on a hectic day. I can also do a bit a night if I feel so inclined. And there's the freedom to work in my old sweats or even in pj's!!! I must say that I enjoy a job that I can where my pj's to!!!!

Don't know if this helps...I may have gotten of track a bit...

Sandra

[anita]

Great questions and insight Mary Beth...can't think of anything to add.

Anita

[ffq-lar]

Here is another thought as well--when the year is up and you perhaps decide to leave, who "owns" the customers you have quilted for? This is where it might get tricky--jealosy or renentment might enter the picture. Partnerships are like a marriage without many benefits!! For protection for both parties, spell everything out in a legally-binding partnership agreement. That means everything--ownership of the machine, access to the machine, "outside" customers that you may find by word of mouth or through friends, what percentage of each fee you owe to your partner or if you will pay a flat space rental fee, yadda yadda. Eyes open wide and everything spelled out will keep your relationship professional and easy to extract yourself from. Good luck and have fun!!

[Bonnie]

I quilted for 7 years for a LQS, and they did try very hard for me to move my machine into their store. I would have been paying rent for the space plus a percentage of utilities, I would have only been able to quilt during their store hours (I wouldn't have been able to come and go as I could in my own studio), I would have had also to pay them a percentage of the quilts (I was doing that anys from a off site studio). I wouldn't have been able to have customers OTHER than those that came to the store, I would have had to turn my outside customer base over to them....

For me it wouldn't have worked well....I sometimes quilted till 2am and then came back in at 7am.....I sometimes had to leave to run errands (I wouldn't have been able to do that freely there)

I think this would have worked for me only as it did. I gave them 25% of the quilting cost....I ran my own studio, paid my own utilities and came and went as I pleased. I also kept their customers totally separate from my customers...

To move your equipment to someone else's place of business, is tricky at best. I would have a contract and legal paperwork to back up everything. If you don't there is always the chance you will loose your machine to them, and I would never take that chance. As Mary Beth said, friendship or torn apart for way less than going into business together. The others have given you some great advise....mine to you is don't do it. Keep it separate, your customers and then quilt for her for a percentage. Good luck on your decision.

[AbigailE]

Okay, being pragmatic here. What's in this agreement for you? What will you benefit from this arrangement? Most of all, does your business plan include a worse case scenario? As in LQS closes, creditors go after the assets. Whose asset is the Long Arm? This could work out to your advantage, but be very sure and documented that you are getting what works for you.

Right now as I understand it she gets to share rent space, increase her foot traffice by having you there. Are you getting greater exposure for your work if you rent?

Be very clear in what you want, what you are getting and what are the benefits and ultimate risks. The best outcome and the worst outcome. If you are comfortable with both that may help your decision.

\\

[Quilting Heidi]

I'm with Bonnie. I would not want my machine in a shop. I like being able to work when I want and look how I want! LOL I love PJ days on the weekend! The other thing I would worry about is who else would have access to my machine, especially if I'm paying for the machine!

[JoleneK]

My 2 cents - This situation seems perfect for someone who doesn't already have experience and you use this person and her shop as a mentor. It sounds like you're already an experienced quilter. If you already have gained experience quilting why put out extra $$$ to rent space from her. One of the benefits of us owning our own machine is not having to pay so much over head for space rent, additional utilities and the bonus of being able quilting in our jammies. She wants you to put out the money for "your" machine and "she" will get to be your boss. Nobody is the boss of my machine.

How is she suggesting this work - you put out the money for a machine (that has be made clear). What about the threads and other gadgets we pick up along the way. Will she supply everything else for you? Just a thought...

Keep us posted.

[cvrchota]

i have thought about renting a space somewhere for my machine, but the convenience of quilting till 2am...sleeping till 10am... no rent payments... and working in my jammies always outweighed any pros i could come up with.. i'm not sure why the stipulation that the machine needs to stay in her shop for a year... and does she get a cut of the quilts you quilt? i'm with the others... if you're going to put out the $$ for a machine, go into business for yourself and keep ALL your profits... as far as customer base, they will follow...

[wnott]

The consensus here is that this is probably not a good idea for you so my mind races to find a way to turn this around in YOUR favor!

How much $$$ is she asking (you to pay her to work for her)?

What are YOUR goals for long arming? Do you want to quilt for customers full-time in a retail environment? Or do you just want to have your own longarm?

She is trying to use you to promote her business and I would not even consider venturing into such an agreement without an attorney, and I'm a paralegal (or once was anyway)!!!

I would tell her that I'm married and can only handle 1 partnership at a time:D (to laughingly shut her idea down - period.)

Take your money and buy your own machine. There are more and more used systems out there everyday and you already have experience, and a customer base; whether you realize it or not. When you have your machine up and running let her know and ask her to recommend you if she has overflow.

Got me fired up,

[ThreadWaggle]

I have a different take. I know people that have put longarms into shops and had it work out well on both sides. If you don't have space for a longarm in your house this may be a good thing to pursue. But like everyone else there should be a legal agreement in place and you should go in knowing what will happen after a year if you decide to leave or she decides that she doesn't want you to stay after all. Linda Taylor was talking about how she has purchased longarms for people and they were doing quilting for her out of their houses, in a class I was in. Not something I would want to do, but it worked for Linda.

Also if she has tools that you can borrow while she is not using them this might help you a little in the beginning as you would not have to outright purchase them right away. Plus if she is willing to mentor you, that may be worth it too.

You need to be clear on customers base, personally I would want to try to negotate a copy of the list if you will servicing customers off of it. If you are canvasing for you own customers then I would still try to go for the whole list but would be happy with my contribution/ customers.

Also if you are purchasing the longarm, I would want something in my legal agreement that states that it is mine and not a joint asset of the business. Along with anything else you are bring with you. (And I mean anything, chairs, laptop, desk, templates)

How is she making money on this deal, are you renting space or is she getting a percentage? I would not want to both. Also is this your business, do you need your own licensing, insurance, etc or are you a subcontractor under her? Either way you need to find out more about how she works her business. What type of business... sole proprietor, LLC , Corp. What the laws are in your state. What her insurance covers if she says that it will cover your machine, I would want that from the insurance company... Like a marriage you need to have a finance discuss and know what is up before you decide to partner.

I guess what I am saying is that it can be good for both of you if you decide to do it, but go in planning for your exit. Only you know the other person well enough to decide if it will work out for you. If I was getting any "funny" vibes I would not do it. Some partnerships do work out, but like marriages it comes down to the people involved.

[Sparkle]

Hi Dnice,

In our quilting community we have two long arm quilters that have had a partnership for many years. They now have two machines. "Topstitchers" in Petaluma, CA. They moved a few years ago because their business expanded and they now have two machines. (maybe more by now)

They do wonderful quilting, and I've always been in awe of how well they get along, how well they manage their business commitments, and how they both manage to still have time to do marvelous quilts of their own which they have in local quilt shows.

They rent a separate shop space. They always have. One quilter works 3 days a week. The other quilter works 3 days a week. They normally don't quilt in the shop together . They work from 9:00 am to 5:30 pm their 3 day shift. This means the business is open 6 days a week. But, that they each have 4 days off to still spend time with family, friends and do their own quilting. Seems like the perfect plan, and it must be working as they have been doing it for close to 10 yrs. If you want a quilt done---they are back logged with business, and normally they can't start work on your quilt for 2 or more weeks. Their turn around time is very quick once they start on your quilt.

They are very friendly and helpful. They have lots of samples hanging in their quilting space. (you feel like you are at a quilt show) !

Their prices are average and competitive with other long arm quilters in the area, and with 4 local quilt guilds and a ton of quilters in the north San Francisco bay area they do very well with their business. You can pick which quilter you prefer of the two to do your quilt, but they are equally as good at it....Maybe they get along so well because they don't really spend that much time together! or because they are the best of friends! I just know they have made it work! very successfully for many years.

I'm sure they have legal and mutal agreements with contracts between each other. You would have to discuss this with an attorney and CPA, together and separately. Get everything on the table that you mutually want to happen with the business and with the assets.

Just wanted to let you know a bit about this admirable partnership.

[quiltmonkey]

After you consider all the ways this will work for you and your partner, and if you want to do this as a parternship, it would be wise to discuss this together with a CPA and have an attorney draw up legal papers so it's all straight forward. Sometimes there are misunderstandings with partnerships and in the end someone is always the loser, so know all of the legalities and set it up properly before you dive into this.

[JoleneK]

Originally posted by Sparkle

If you want a quilt done---they are back logged with business, and normally they can't start work on your quilt for 2 or more weeks.

My area would love if we were only 2 or so weeks. I'm minimum 4 weeks.

[Cheryll]

We have one quilter amoung many in our area and she is booked out one year. Can you believe it?

[Corey]

Wow,

I learned a lot just reading all your posts.

Angie's input is good, as well as the others.

Personally, I would not do it just because I was once in a business situation and it went sour, even among family. It is good to be your own boss and enjoy the freedom that goes with it.

Corey

[AnnHenry]

I only read the top post and don't have time to read the others, but if your heart isn't in it, if you aren't thrilled to death with the opportunity, DON'T DO IT! Life is hard enough when you are doing what you want to do, and it's a b**** when you have to do what you don't want to do.

IMHO

[AnnHenry]

Now I've had time to read all the posts.

The only thing I can add is that you must have your very own hired attorney (like in a divorce) for a situation like this, and he will certainly insist on a contract. Don't fall for "this is a typical contract" from the other side because there is no typical contract for the situation you are describing. If the store draws up the legal papers for you to sign, be aware that everything will be in her favor.

You must know every single detail of every single thing you want, and it must be spelled out; nothing can be assumed. Your attorney can draw up your contract or, if not, he must examine the contract, make changes, etc., and advise you on whatever you sign. You must never expect the other party's attorney to have your best interests at heart. You must never have the same attorney (or law firm) as the other party.

You must have an attorney involved to protect your interests. There is a time to pay for professional advice.

[dnice]

WOW!!

Now that I am back to read the responses to my question I am understanding where my heart is. I want the LA with the convinence of being able to quilt at will.

Right now my life is full with a happy marriage, a full time position that is 50 - 60 hours a week and a Mary Kay business. The partnership would not be like my MK business. I need to be able to work when I want too and not be restricted.

I love to quilt by LA or hand. The thing that I know I do like is to be able to quilt when I want to. Especially with my schedule. I am usually quilting after a long day as relaxation.

Also I would like to keep my friendship with the person that made the offer.

Now to look at financing my own machine and deciding which one it will be. Maybe the Liberty.

[ThreadWaggle]

Denice,

Being able to quilt at will is the best part of owning a longarm. Good luck in the search for your perfect machine. I went to Houston with the goal of trying out as many longarms as I could. I know I made the right decision for me. I love my Millie.

If you can test drive the machines, yours will tell you when you find it.

[dnice]

Angela,

Thank you for the input. There is something to be said for quilting at will.

Presently I rent time on a Millie and if I can convenience my husband, I would have one. Right now it is going to be renting until the finances are worked out.

[qwltnldy]

dnice, I agree with all the advice here and really have nothing to add, but I will say that when you have trouble diving into something, that is almost always (call it what you want "God, Providence, Premonition, whatever). I know that every time, without exception if I had a "funny feeling" or just kept similarly putting something off, many times I found out later that it wasn't the right way to go but I just didn't know why at the time. I chalked it up to the Big Guy looking out for me and warning me somehow. I see that you have come to a smart conclusion which confirms that when you wait instead of just jumping into something, wisdom often prevails!