Pattern purchases

[APQS]

Get a really good lawyer!!!! You could have a lot of money coming your way!

If she only had 8 students for 26 weeks of the year thats over $1,000 for one year! When did you sell her your books? I'd assume she owes you from then! Certainly sending her an invoice for what you think she might have earned since the date she bought your books would scare her.

Good luck Darlene -

[APQS]

Hey Darlene

That wasn't a well thought out reply (I was a bit shocked at what I read I guess)- what I suggested only recovers the money SHE received - not the possible income you have lost - $45 x 8 x 26weeks per year - $9360.

Good luck and go for it Darlene.

[Bonnie]

I too say legal action should not be overlooked here.

I got my first experience with copyright laws about 10 years ago when the embroidery craze first hit the domestic machines. During a sewing seminar where all the dealers get together and discuss and have classes it was brought up that several people had taken things one step further and had taken coloring books of Disney, Warner Brother and several other such likes and created their own embroidery images and were selling them on disks as well as embroidering them onto clothing for profit.

When the dust settled and all the legal actions were taken these people not only had huge fines to pay, but they lost all their computer equipment, sewing supplies and machines...not sure if jail time was involved.

It was enough of a scare for me that I remembered to make sure to discuss copyright laws in my classes that I was teaching at the time. I had several people tell me point blank that they felt that they were safe in doing these things because the copyright police WOULD never find them.... I'm sure that is what is happening here and she just never thought that you would find out or that anyone would inform you of this.

Its wrong and it should be brought up that you need her to stop teaching these classes and to pay back the damages that it has done to the sale of your book. I personally would be very upset if this happened to me....I watch very carefully how I handle copyrighted stuff and if it doesn't fit into what I need it to do I either ask permission or don't buy it.

I'm so sorry this has happened and I wish you luck in resolving this mess.

[Bekah]

Darlene, being a legal assistant during my "paying job" I can tell you that you do need to get legal advice.

I am so sorry that this happened and that someone has decided to take what was yours and try to make it hers. I do hope you will keep us posted about the outcome.

I think this is a real wake up call to all of us to be very careful how we handle the tallent and giftedness of our "quilting sisters".

Bekah

[Susanri]

Darlene, get a lawyer that its what I think of as classic copyright infringemnt,

There are many different topics being addressed here on this thread and there is no clear laws adrressing the issues.

The right to do what you want with the finished product.

(I wrote the copy right office and they pretty much say the finished product is not covered unless it has original artwork. ie.. micky mouse, )

I should be able to sell the single quilt (not mass produced) Again the copyright office says as defined by the dictionary.

I should be able to take a picture of the quilt and show it with credit to whomever I like to do this so others can purchase the patterns I use and like, I love your drifting leaves and have told at least 10 people to buy it!

But what constitutes an original pattern? I can make a Jane stickle quilt and sell hundreds of them but I can not call it a Baby Jane and sell them since that concept belongs to Brenda P. But the quilt does not. That Kathering Bisset designed a quilt using a modified rail and floral fabrics sort of original but her pattern and art work are covered by copyright BUT she wants to sue some poor quilter for showing the quilt without her permission, sure the pattern maker should be named but permission? and share the $25.00 winnings? she got paid when she sold the pattern.

I hope you go after this person you are entitled to any earnings she has made off your original ideas. You have a good case and this is what I thought the laws pertained too

good luck

susan

[Darlene Epp]

I appreciate everyone's response and advise. My challenge is that I live in Canada, and would need a U.S. attorney. At least I think so. Also, does the copyright on a product produced and printed in Canada offer me ANY protection in another country??

There's so much going on in my life right now, I just don't need ANYthing else to add to it! But I also can't let this woman continue to pass off my work as her own, AND charge people for it!

[thequiltqueen]

Darlene,

As a starter, with no expense to you other than a postage stamp, how about sending this person a sternly worded letter on Trillium House stationery letting her know YOU know she has been using your designs as her own with no renumeration to you???

You may get her to stop without a lawyer, but I am not so sure of your chances of getting back pay without a lawyer. Then it becomes a matter of whether you have the time/energy to pursue back pay, or whether you want to move on from THIS point forward.

If she continued to infringe on your copyright after receiving your letter, you would almost HAVE to do something legally because where would it ever end??? At least then you would have further evidence for the attorney if you had sent the letter certified.

[mrsbishwit]

Darlene;

I would first hire a Canadian lawyer and have them write the stern legal letter stating that you want the individual to stop immediately in what she is doing (make sure you make copies of here website as to proof/ and date of her activities). Then proceede with the legal action suit for $ damages at this point your Canadian laywer can bring on an American lawyer as side council or whatever he/she thinks is necessary. Having a letter (certified perferably) comming from a legal rep. sends a stronger message and lets them know that you mean business rather than just a letter from yourself...I think this situation is beyond a simple letter from you.

This is why there is copy right laws are in place, this women is clearly out to profit (a little bit here, a little bit there) and it sure adds up over time.

Keep us in the loop as to how this turns out, and good luck.

Joann

[sspingler]

Darlene, I am so sorry to hear that this is happening to you. I was given your books as a gift from a very good customer because I won her several ribbons for her quilts. I refer to them often!!! They are bibles for us quilters!

I agree.......find an attorney! You can hire a Canadian attorney and sublet to an attorney in that woman's state. My daughter's attorney did just that.

[CherylUribe]

Darlene, I just had a thought. (amazing I know!) C & T Publishing promotes their books for you to use as often as you want and encourages quilting teachers to teach from the books and offers lesson plans on their website. All they ask is that every student purchase their own copy of the book. Maybe you could call the pirate/plagiarizer ask that she pay a fee (penalty) for past use of your designs and make an arrangement for future use with whatever requirements you decide. For instance, She must put your name on the class, all students must buy their own set of Pocket Guides, and maybe write a lesson plan to go along with the books. This way you could make lemonade out of lemons. Get your name out there even more (especially to domestic machine users), not have to teach domestic m. classes yourself, maybe start a whole clan of Pocket Guide teachers and classes. You could even require them to take a class from you first on how you would like them taught.

Just an outside the box idea. Having said that, I would not be at all happy about the situation! Better to make some money and not have to waste it on a lawyer! Of course you may still have to.

Hope it all turns out for your benefit, with the least amount of stress!

[Judi]

Darlene -

Hunt her down and go for it! Letter first, then lawyer, what ever you need

to do. Good Luck - and please let us know what happens!

[buzzard]

This is the first time I have posted a reply on the APQS chat.

My wife and I own a Milinium and we are going to start selling T-Shirt quilts soon.

Does anyone know if anyone holds the copyright on the Baptist Fan? I can make my own patterns to be used by a stylus. I do not want to us a design that has a copyright. I am hoping I am safe with the Baptist Fan or just a Zig Zag design?

I do not want to copy someones book and sell it as if it were my own. I do not want to copy someone's template and sell a copy of the template and make money. I want to use some of the tools that I paid for to make a quilt, then sell the quilt.

Just as a furniture maker buys a hammer, saw, nails, etc... to have the tools neccesary to make the furniture. I really doubt if he has to go back and pay money to the tool manufacturers.

Some of the "designs" are all over the place and several different persons taking the credit. I do not get it.

I have emailed one designer and still am not sure if I will owe her money or not if I sell a quilt using her template. I am going to find a generic template and stick with that or make my own designs.

[Susanri]

Babtist fan is public domain as far as a template goes unless it contains original artwork and a babtist fan is not you can do what ever you want with your quilts. what they are protected from is you selling the actual template as your own.

when i wrote to the copyright office they told me a pattern maker does not have rights to the end product unless it contains original artwork or trademark.

they are entitled to not have their work copied (see Darlens delema a clear violation of copyright laws) and they can sell the pattern its self but copyright does not apply to the end product since that is why you sell a pattern or template, I was told for example if you made a dress from a pattern it is yours to do what you like but you can not copy the pattern and sell it. however if the dress contained artwork of say a "bunny" that was original that "bunny" would be protected from being sold in a finished Item,

but this is why there are lawyers because there are no simple rules and everyone tries to make there own rules to fit thier needs.

[buzzard]

The Baptist Fan being in the public domain is great news. The following is an example of why I am researching this subject:

1. I bought The Scalloped Shell, by Sherry Rogers, from Columbia River Quilting and Designs around a month ago.

2. The main reason I bought this, is because it is made out of acylic and is .25" thick which makes it perfect to use with a router.

3. I made a large 8' X 17" wooden template using the Scalloped Shell template (I have included a picture with this message). This way my wife can quilt using her APQS loan arm machine without having to stop and do the bobbin thing. The wooden template is made out of some very good less than .25" plywood, so it does not interfere with the carraige on the loan arm.

4. We use the Quilt EZ stylus with my templates.

5. I have seen the scalloped design in many variations and some not so varied from Sherry's design. I have also seen the Chicken Wire, Feathers, Baptist Fan, Flying Geese, Double Wedding Ring, Ovals, Circles, Hearts, Flowers, Cables, Waves, Swirls, Zig Zag - which is on every stinking sewing machine on the market as a stitch! etc... Some of them are identical to each other or only vary enough to be detected by an engineer's quality control tool.

5. I used Sherry's Scalloped Shell template to make my wooden template. (The design is in wood instead of a quilt, which it eventually will be in.)

6. I am not going to sell templates. And even if I was, I would come up with my own designs OR as many of the other template makers have done, make them using the Baptist Fan, Double Wedding Ring, etc.... so I can money on an old design that is part of the "public domain". Anyway, I am not in the template business and have no plans to do so in the near future.

7. Apparently now I believe I am going to be limited to using my scalloped 8' template for quilts that we do not sell. I have emailed Sherry and she did respond, but to be honest I am still fuzzy if I can sell quilts using my wooden scalloped template. I re-emailed Sherry, and I hope to hear back soon.

8. I think I am going to make some more "original" designed templates OR make sure I use a design in the "public domain".

9. I did email Cindy Turnbow with The Stencil Co and she responded quickly twice and I asked her their policy on making a profit using their stencils. She did tell me that many of their stencils are copyrighted, but that any of them that are not in the HW Series may be used for making a profit on a quilt. So thank you Cindy for that great information and your very fast response.

10. I think that copyright laws are a good thing and I want to abide by them. However, I do not want to use a design like the Baptist Fan, and have some template manufacuter/designer come to me asking for money or worse taking me to court.

11. If I was to re-sale or make an exact copy of the TEMPLATE and sell it (a template copy) for a profit, then I would expect the template manufacturer/designer to want thier product protected.

12. I also do not want a manufacturer/designer to make a stencil or template of a design that was not their original idea, and try to say that it is copyrighted!?!? That is just plain wrong, and I think we all know that.

13. One more question. My wife is in the middel of making a quilt using a Moda Fabric collection. This is not a for sale quilt as it is a Sweet 16 Quilt for my niece. However, if she were to sell a quilt like this, do we owe Moda any money or acknowledgement?

14. I think some of the problem is trying to distinguish between a "tool" and an "original design"

15. Now I think I need to get off my soap box, go back to law school, and become a Quilt Attorney!

Thanks for listening,

Buzz

[luv2kwilt]

Question-- Just how do designers actually know that they haven't completely designed something that was already made? For instance, a double-wedding ring quilt--they are always in magazines, books, and pasted down over and over--how can a designer take credit for that? Or any pattern that has been around for centuries? Noone can possibly know what is in every book, magazine, or in every show. It really does seem that this has gotten out of hand. I am all for protecting the rights of those who are creating patterns for the piecing and quilting, but once you sell it to someone, its out there, and you have allowed someone else to be creative with what you have created. Can't we all just get along?

P.S. WHat is a Larry Liner?

[buzzard]

Thanks for the reply. And I agree, I think this design/copyright thing has totally gotten out of hand. Are most quilters naive enough to believe that just because someone has the copyright sign, (a circle with a "c" inside) that that the designer has sent this off to the U.S. Copyright office to be registered? Maybe, maybe not. It is true that once the "idea, design, etc..." is written down or created on a media, it can be considered in "copyright" status. However, not everything someone puts in writing or on media is copyrightable (real word?) and some copyright attorneys will agree about that. That also goes for patents. Just because you think you can get a patent of something, it does not mean the patent office is going to grant you one. Thank God for that, as we would only have one brand of car, one brand of television, etc... (kind of like the old Soviet Union and China). It needs to be their own ORIGINAL AND UNIQUE idea, and I would totally agree with the protection our government affords them.

I have Googled the Larry Liner, but can not find it online, but I believe it is some sort of a tool that long armer's use.

Again, thanks for the response.

From what I am discovering, the quilting world can be a little strange when it comes to some of these things

[Susanri]

I just picked a new magazine called "quilters home" it has a very good article about copyrights wonderful magazine too can't wait to subscribe!

[buzzard]

Hello Susan,

Can you tell me how I can subscribe to Quilter's Home Magazine and what issue contains the copyright article?

Thanks,

[Bonnie]

There is a script card in the mag, which I threw out already sorry,but the information is as follows:

Quilter's Home

(For the new generation of quilters)

Website: www.quiltershomemag.com

Additional copies of Quilters Home:

call 1-800-590-3465 or 303-278-1010 and ask for newsstand prices or write to

Quilters Home

P O Box 4101

Golden, Colorado 80401-0101

This is a Primedia Enthusiast Group

[buzzard]

Thanks Bonnie

[jeri]

I've gone to a simple solution for me. I simply no longer buy pattern books or patterns that I haven't found out what the copyright restrictions are. Burned on one book--learned from there. I also don't buy them if they are too restrictive or complicated to keep track of. I also try to stick with those that allow resizing especially for block and border patterns. There are lots of designers out there to choose from.

jeri

[buzzard]

Sounds like a good plan Jeri. From what I am reading many quilters are taking your approach to this difficult and confusing subject. My wife and I are going to attend the Int. Quilt Show in Houston this year as we live in Sugar Land, TX which is only a few miles West, Southwest of Houston. I plan on investigating this subject a little during the show.

However, I am getting very close to your solution and just doing my own templates with original designs.

[RheLovesToSew]

i'm like yvonne, what is larry the liner? never saw an answer.

[Darlene Epp]

The "Larry Liner" is a ruler designed by Larry Randolph. You can contact him at: quilt8062@earthlink.net or phone 281-328-9600.

It has several sides to it that are used for SID, 1/4" outlining etc.

[White Rooster]

Darlene, there is no doubt that you have been cheated and I am so sorry. Advice is cheap (especially free advice 'cause you always get what you pay for . . . ) so here goes. I agree with Cheryl that you should consider contacting the infamous teacher and talk to her about the problem. Let her know that she has infringed on your copyright and come to some type of agreement about her future classes. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you and, just maybe, she will be reasonable. There will always be lawyers willing and waiting for your business but hopefully you won't need them. Take the high road and save the "big guns" for later.

Please keep us posted Darlene. We all feel like we know you and we definitely care about you. If all else fails just let us know where she will be teaching next. One of us could show up with your books (because we all have them) and say, "hey, that's from Darlene Epp's book . . . " lol.