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TracyeQ

stinking loops of top thread on back...again

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I have a problem that I've had before in the past, and can't remember/find the solution. Big random loops on the back. My tension spring rest at 11on top,and goes down to 9 when the thread pulls through. My pigtail goes from 8 to 2. My top tension is tight to the point of the thread breaking. I have a thread sock on and have rethreaded to try and alleviate some of the twist. My top stitches bubble when this is happening on the bottom. I can't feel any rough spots or burrs anywhere.Dawn!!!!! Waaaah!!!!


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APQS Freedom SR

Hopeton, Oklahoma

http://community.webshots.com/user/tracyeq

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Tracey I don't know the answer but will be watching for any responses. I have had nothing but tension issues since I got my Millie 5 yrs ago and this weekend she really sent me over the edge. I am having the same issues and if I get that fixed it will work for maybe one quilt and then start again. I have installed a new tension disk all new eye hooks new bobbin cases and done everything I can think of and still no luck. I hope you get some responses that can help you.


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See below for a thread from Dawn on loops on the back....

 

Check the thread path to be sure that the thread isn't escaping the tension disks occasionally. Put a small piece of batting (wadding) in the first thread guide directly above the cone.Your thread should be "trapped" between the thread guide and the batting. This trick helps to prevent the thread from jumping out of the tension disks unexpectedly and then snapping itself back in when the thread gets taut again. The second thing that causes loops is a scratch or burr on the hook assembly. That little burr grabs your top thread and carries it around the bobbin twice (and sometimes more), which makes a double-size loop on the back. Take a look at your hook assembly with a magnifying glass to see if you can find any scratch or burr. If you find one, smooth it out with very fine sandpaper or emery cloth.  The third thing that can cause random loops is the location of the hook finger. The top thread must sneak through the opening between the hook finger and the bobbin basket with every stitch. If that relationship is too close, then occasionally the top thread gets pinched for just a moment (or it breaks) and the extra long loop forms.  


Millenium

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I would check the hook retaining finger. Sounds like you need to make it further from the hook. just my honest opinion

 Also I had trouble with my machine for months. I finally followed Amy's directions on timing , marking the sweet spot on the needle, It has been running fine since May of 2014 with no problems. Carol

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Thanks guys! Dawn had me send an email with pics of the back and diagnosed it immediately ... I had to tighten the screw in my tensioner discs... Worked like a charm until yesterday... I advanced the quilt, which had looked fine for 1/3 of it, to find the whole back looking furry with massive loops everywhere... All the other times it's happened it's been random and I always had "bubbles" in the top thread to give me a heads up... So I've spent the last 2 days ripping... Gonna go tweak the tensioner screw again and tighten up some tensions... Hope that does the trick... sigh... 


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APQS Freedom SR

Hopeton, Oklahoma

http://community.webshots.com/user/tracyeq

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Now, can you dig that kids. Zeke.

My last tension issues were railroading. Found out that the bobbin case was toast. So I tossed it & got a fresh one. Problem solved.


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by the hour.........................

APQS Ultimate I/Compuquilter

Millennium

ztrbrg@yahoo.com

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Tracye:  If the loops on the back are top thread, and you have loose stitches on the top (bubbles), check your take up spring function.  Make sure the top thread is properly routed through the take up spring.  Make sure it is freely traveling with each stitch.  Check it's position, and if it doesn't have the strength to pull the stitch tight, tighten the tension on it (you have to remove the tension assembly in order to do this).

 

I recently changed the tension system from disk to rotary on Zelda my Ult 2, and learned a lot about what happens when the take up spring isn't working right.  Good luck.  Jim

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I am very frustrated to say the least.  Yesterday I loaded a lap size quilt which I usually have all quilted in an afternoon.  I did one pantograph row with Rainbows thread, no problem.  Since then I can only go about a foot (if I'm lucky) and my thread breaks.  I have rethreaded from start to finish about 5 times, put a piece of batting with "sewers aide" on it in the thread guide just above the spool.  Switched bobbins.  Pulled the tension discs apart (no gunk in there).  Loosened off the top tension, start quilting almost a foot, top thread shreds then breaks.  Sometimes there are loops on the back (only when I come to the point of a curve.  The only heads-up I get that this is going to happen is that the thread whips from the spool first.  I don't have any thread spool socks, never needed them before, just put a piece of batting in the thread guide above the spool and that works, but not this time.  It took me a whole day to quilt one row ......... how frustrating!  And I started again at 8:00 this morning and now it's noon, only to have quilted about 2 feet.  I have some emery cloth that I used through the thread guides to smooth them out if there were any rough spots, I have changed the needle about 6 times, I am using Superior top-stitch needles .......... still my rainbows thread breaks, so I changed thread to Superior So Fine so see if it was the thread.  It still did it, but not quite as often.  I am getting awfully tired of picking out, this project should have been completed yesterday.

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I was having so much trouble with thread shredding and breaking. I did everything recommended, used emery paper every where I thought it might be needed. I moved the eneedle eye to the left to 6:30 like someone said. I used sewers aid. Nothing seemed to help. Then I remembered someone said said try moving the eye of the needle to the right. Magic! That worked for me.

Deb.


 

 

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Tracey set your bobbin to drop about an inch and reset your to tension.  This should take care of your problem. Also make sure there is no link under the "finger" where you pull your thread through the bobbin case.


Myrna Ficken A Quilter's Choice - APQS West, 5787 S. Gallup, Littleton, CO 80120;  Store 435-414-2026 Mobile 435-229-2703  myrnaf@q.com  www.aquilterschoice.com community. Look me up on Facebook   A Quilter's Choice - APQS West

 

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I have had this problem off and on since I got my Millie.  Recently I read a post that suggested Glide prewound bobbins.  I purchased them along with a new bobbin case (and took the spring out) and what a difference!!!!!  I love it.  My stitches on front and back are wonderful  :)

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Kathall33:

 

I am glad the Glide bobbins are working for you now, but I hope you try to work with your Millie and discover how to master her.  That way you can learn what setup works best for a variety of different threads and fabric combinations.  We all need to be masters of our machines, so we can use any thread on any sandwich.  Best of luck, and share with us your eye candy.

 

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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Renee Haddadin youtube video on setting and fine tuning a check spring.  She's on an Innova but I think it's helpful for any brand.  If that check spring is tired or set too loose or tight, it's a problem. 

 

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Good video showing rotary tension but that is not the same as the tension assembly on an APQS machine. To adjust the check spring tension on our machines you must remove the assembly from the head. My understanding is the check spring's purpose is to prevent the thread wrapping around the back of the needle by keeping taking the slack out of the thread until the needle enters the fabric. If you rotate your machine by hand you will see the check spring will release it's tension somewhere between the needle entering the fabric and the needle getting to it's lowest point.

Nigel


Brenda Wells - Green Millie
Nigel Wells - Ultimate 1 with |Intellistitch & IQ

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Nigel:  The "take up" spring is what pulls the stitch tight.  It works the same for rotary or disk systems on both longarms and DSM's.  If it isn't working properly, you'll get top thread loops on the back pretty much regardless of the tension from the tension system.  Singer's old adjustment instructions is that the take up spring should bottom out as the needle enters the fabric. Since everything Singer did in the distant past was so good, I take it as gospel.  I think that probably applies to longarms as well.  (that's pretty much the 9:00 o'clock position we all talk about)

 

If you get the occasional top thread loop on the back, the take up spring isn't working properly.  My Gammill drove me nuts with 8 or 10 such loops on the back of a typical quilt until I adjusted the position of the tension assembly in it's mount, and increased the take up spring tension by rotating it.  Loops are now gone. You should look at the the position of the assembly in it's mount as well, to make sure the take up spring isn't occasionally hitting the machine compromising it's function.

 

 The Gammill has a rotary tension system like the Innova, and I had to remove the assembly to change the take up spring tension just like I would on my Ult 2.  Apparently the adjustment is a bit different on the Innova.  BTW, I've replaced the disk tension system on my Ult 2 with a rotary system, but the spring adjustment is done the same way.  Jim   

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I have been having this problem on and off since getting my new Lucey in January.  I'm quilting along fine...then I feel some increased tension...some weird sounding stitches...and then it goes on fine.  But if I look at the back of the quilt where I heard the noise, there is a bird's nest of the top thread.  Here's an odd aside...sometimes, if I inspect the front stitches where it happened I notice that the top thread broke, so I miss a stitch or two, but it still kept sewing after that.  Weird huh?  I have the batting in the eye above my cone.  I have bent the bobbin case springs up.  I tried a bobbin genie.  My check spring is moving between 9:30 and 11 o'clock.  I'm not sure what else to try.  It happens more often when I'm moving slowly like when I'm doing ruler work or micro quilting. 

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Miss.Jen:  What kind of top thread are you using?  Some of the embroidery threads will shred and leave only a fiber attached which will allow the machine to continue because the needle didn't actually unthreaded.  I've had that happen to me a time or two.  That normally doesn't cause a "bird's nest" on the back however.  The jerk on your machine actually sounds like the thread isn't releasing from the hook properly.  Check the adjustment of the black bobbin basket finger.  The thread loop may be catching on it.  At the same time take a look at your hook timing.   Good luck.  Jim

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Hi Jim,  Currently, I am using So fine on top and Bottom Line in the bobbin.  However, it has happened with all combinations I've tried.  How would I know if the black bobbin basket finger is adjusted properly?  I'm willing to try anything at this point.  It happens about 10+ times/quilt.

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MissJen:  The black "finger" I'm referencing is screwed to the bottom of the machine head just under the needle plate.  A screw holds it in place, and it slides back and forth into a notch in the bobbin basket.  It keeps the bobbin basket from rotating with the hook.  The finger should leave at least 2/3rd of the slot in the bobbin basket open.  I slide mine in just enough to keep the bobbin basket from turning.  If it's in more than 2/3, the thread loop can catch on it.  Good luck.  Jim  PS: When you check the adjustment, feel to make sure the edges of the finger are smooth.  If there are any burrs on the finger, you'll need to take it off and polish them out, then re-install and adjust the finger.

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Jen and Jim:

 

The so called "black bobbin basket finger" is proper name is the "Hook Retaining Finger."  Using the proper terminology helps all of us better understand our machines and how to run them at their best.  You can watch how to adjust it at 38:45 on the following video;

 

http://www.apqs.com/instructional-videos/?watch=xWeqiuvwk5E

 

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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I had the same problem. Was sewing beautifully; turned off for the night, next day LOOPS ON BOTTOM from top thread. I put a new needle in, checked thread path, checked timing. Nothing!! Then I tried a different bobbin case. Problem FIXED! I threw the other one out. I don't know what happened to make it go bad. Hangin with the wrong crowd maybe! hahahahaha  :P  :P


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APQS Millie aka Big Baby
www.linneamariequilts.blogspot.com
Sew Batik Associate #1361

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Linea:

 

This may help you too;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlMgxd2bXwY

 

A friend of mine has both sizes, and uses them as Jamie suggested.  She thinks they work great.  I have not tried it myself, though I quilt on soft carpet and have a L sized bobbin.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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