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I have a Brand New Lucey.

I just completed a 120" x 120" Eclipse looking Batik Quilt top.

I just held a single piece of Batik fabric in my hand and tried to push the 4.0 needle through it.. wow.. it really popped, just by pushing it through by hand.

I have a new package of 3.5 and I tried one of those by hand also, still very hard to press through the fabric and BOTH NEEDLES LEFT A HUGE HOLE IN THE BATIK FABRIC.

ANY suggestions?

I am using 2 thin layers of Polyester Batting.  I don't think the two thicknesses add up to any more than about 1/2" if that.

The top is Batik Pieced and the backing fabric is a big piece of Batik.

Planning on using Superior Fantastico 5001 in the needle and Bottom Line SuperBOBs M style in the Bobbin

Thank you,

Rosemary

 


Rosemary

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It will be interesting to see what others say. Keep in mind your machine is much better at pushing that needle through the fabric than we are by hand. These needles are really thick compared to a sewing machine needle. Personally, I would us the 3.5 needle. Because it is Batik and because this needle will leave a smaller hole. Of course while the quilt is on the machine, and has tension on the layers, you are going to have holes. Once the quilt relaxes, the holes will go away.


Mary Beth 

Powered by 2009 Freedom

Future winner of the Millie Sweepstakes

http://marysnutshell.blogspot.com/




 

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A smaller needle will leave a smaller hole, but you need to select your needle based on your thread, as well as the hole it leaves behind.  What size needle does Superior recommend for that thread?  I would go with that recommendation.  Even batik needle holes will relax over time.


Betsy

quilting with Emmeline, a 2011 Freedom SR

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Thank you so much for the Information.

Being New at this I didn't even think to look inside the cone to see that Superior Recommended for Longarm the  #18 (MR 4.0)

I am concerned about the flex and breaking needles, with the 3.5, so I guess I better Do a Practice piece and see what happens,  Especially now that Superior wants me to use the 4.0

My Daughter wants this to end up more like a comforter, so I am going to try a big overall loopy with maybe a big swirl, and keep all my stitching lines at least 1.5 to 2 inches apart.

Does that sound ok?  Both Poly Battings say that I can stitch from 2" to 4" apart.  So, I hope it will end up puffy :)

Thanks again for all the help. I am scared, after all the work in this top, I sure don't want to ruin it now :)

Rosemary


Rosemary

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Rosemary

Do not fret, you are going to do fine with the quilting.  While I think the holes after quilting are rather large compared to your DSM, I have found all the holes close up nice and tight after the quilt is washed.  Myself, I wash all my quilts before I give them away.  That way I can ensure there is a dye catcher or two in the washer when they soak/wash, and I am sure all my marks are off the quilt before I hand it off to its new owner.  

Let us see your work of art once it is done.  Take care, and have a great day.

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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>>  Oh boy.. "Do Not Fret"  you say   :)  Haha!!  I can't even sleep, here it is 6:16am and I have been up since 4:15am!

I know this does not have anything to do with my needle question.. but I have to let you know I already crossed the bridge about colors bleeding!!

So, I will try to keep this short,,  A few weeks back I mentioned to the Quilt shop owner, that I finally had my top finished and I was about to jump into the quilting.  She out of the clear blue sky ( well, maybe it was snowing that day :( ), asked me IF I had treated the Batiks yet? Huh! What did she mean by that?  Now, mind you.. This is my FIRST Batik project, and I have always prewashed and pressed without steam All MY COTTON fabrics, before I start any project.  So, she tells me about some stuff called Retayne and that she recommended that I do the process.   OH Goodness.. not only did I FRET over getting my Stainless Steel Wash Machine tub up to 140 degrees, after this delicate 20 minute ordeal and drying.. to my surprise, Being told Batiks don't ravel!!  I beg to differ!!  I had what i considered a DISTROYED QUILT TOP!!  All those little raveled threads, grabbed the little raveled threads next to him.. and on and on til it actually had my stitches pulled,knotted,twisted.. oh gosh, you name it,  I was just sick!  Took me two days to cut all the knotted up birds nests.. soak my seams with a lot of distilled water , so that I could once again "relax"  my stitches!  What a nightmare, but I have it "ALMOST" back to looking like a Quilt top again.

SO... lesson learned >>>  I will never do any other project without WASHING FIRST!!  :) 

Ok.. I am off to find a couple big pieces of Batiks to try out the needle sizes.  Don't hold your breath .. I'm slow and scared :)  may take me a while to keep you posted.

Have a Great Day!


Rosemary

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Rosemary, I am so sorry you had that issue with your top.  Shame on that shop owner for not telling you if you haven't treated your batiks before sewing, wait until after the quilt is finished to do it.  As you have learned, washing tops before quilting can be a nightmare.  Retayne and Synthrapol are great products, and I use them on my batik yardage, and cottons, if necessary.  When I buy any kind of kit, though, I am always afraid the treatment process will shrink the fabric, or make it so wonky that I won't have enough fabric to make the quilt, so I wait until after the quilt it finished to treat it.

You did treat your backing fabric, right?  Batiks are easier to quilt if they have been washed.  Your loop and swirl plan sounds good to me.  Looking forward to seeing pictures of your project!


Betsy

quilting with Emmeline, a 2011 Freedom SR

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I guess I have been lucky with my simple ways.  Buy batik fabric, cut batik fabric, piece batik fabric into quilt top, sew two large cuts of batik fabric together for backing, lay batik backing on table, place batting on top of that, then cover with batik quilt top, pin baste, quilt the living dickens out of the quilt sandwich, free motion quilt around the very outside edge of quilt to ensure no unraveling, throw entire quilt into cold water soak/wash with two dye catchers, low speed spin, block quilt, bind, if I notice any dye run, re-soak in washer with more dye catchers, air dry quilt under ceiling fan, give quilt away.  

As I understand it most batik fabric is treated multiple times to wetting and drying, so the dyes may be added as needed.  Finally, the fabric is washed in hot water to remove the final wax coating, which helps shrink the fabric, set the colors, and removes most excess dye.  I put some of these "quilter must do's" into the old wives tale bin, like never use poly thread on cotton quilt top as it will wear/cut the cotton fabric, and years from now you will end up with a quilt of nothing but poly thread.  

My simple ways have worked for me so far, and I will stick to them until they bite me in the butt.  I'll keep my fingers crossed it works on the quilt I working on presently.  It does not use many batiks, but it does have a lot of red, white and blue in it.  My simple mind does not expect any bleeding, other than a few needle sticks during the creative process.  

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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Oh Cagey,

Your simple ways are MINE TOO.. so that starts a new FRET

My old school ways have always been.. like you said.. NEVER use poly thread on a cotton quilt!!

Well.. this is a new world now, and I can't wait to hear what others are going to say.. but now I have been told that "it doesn't matter"  that use cotton thread on cotton fabric is an old wives tale.

I'm about to jump the fence and do another FIRST!! 

Superior Thread Fantastico which is a Variegated Shiny Triobal  Polyester in the Needle

and SuperBobs super thin bobbin thread by Bottom Line. 

Talk about scared to death.. I'm not practicing What I have lived by forever!! I sure hope I won't regret it.

:) not funny, but your bleeding problems being your own pain.. put a smile on my face!  Sorry.

Have a Great day


Rosemary

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Rosemary:  I might just be the contrarian here.  I suggest you go big on the needle, not small.  Batiks are tightly woven, which means they "grip" the needle tightly.  Such a "grip" is hard on the thread.  Fantastico is primarily an embroidery thread, and is two strand rather than the usual three strand thread used for longarm sewing, making it more likely to break.  The larger the needle, the more clearance there is for the thread, which cuts down on breakage.  As far as the holes are concerned, they shrink up and go away with handling and use. I would try the 4.0 initially, and if I had problems, then try a 5.0 MR needle.  The larger needles resist deflection more than the smaller ones, and that has to be a good thing.  BTW, I use Schmetz SERV 7 needles not MR's partly because they are stiffer than the MR's which allows you to use one size smaller as far as deflection goes.  Just my take on it.  good luck.  Jim

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Hi Jim,

Before I forget.. Are you using the Schmetz needles in George?  I am under the understanding that only George used the Schmetz needles.. but I'm all for learning if you have proven otherwise. I love Schmetz needles for all my Domestic machines and Embroidery.

Thanks for all the info.  I had no idea that the Fantastico was more of am Embroidery thread.. It is 40#, and for heavens sakes.,, the biggest needles I purchased are 4.5 and they look like Pole Barn nails!! :)  haha

Now I am really considering purchasing just plain Cotton 40# thread.. if so what should I use in the Bobbin?

Is it just "NOT HEARD OF" to use the same thread in the bobbin that I use in the needle? 

Is anyone familiar with Robinson/Antons All cotton 50# or 40#?  Everyone seems to be sold on Superior, so I am trying to get a Brand and size to stick with.  All my Embroidery Threads are Robinson/ Anton and I have NEVER had a problem.  I am really serious about the Superior 40# OMNI but it is still Polyester, :( 

Everyone's comment are GREATLY appreciated.. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on Threads that I won't be happy with.  I do like the OLD FASHIONED Quilted look, and I am being told that "The NEW WAY"  nobody wants to see the stitches.  :(  I thought that is what Quilting was all about.  Am I missing something?

Thanks Everyone

Have a Great Day, Rosemary

 


Rosemary

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Ok here goes my opinion (2 cents).  I'm in the same group as Cagey, I wash after the quilt is done and use dye catchers.  I've honestly never had a problem even with red fabric.  Maybe, I've been lucky.  I've actually never heard of anyone "treating" their batik fabric with retayne and synthrapol  but no reason not to.  I do treat other hand dyed fabrics that I bought at shows.  The needle holes with the added pokies can look horrible while the quilt is on your frame but they usually go away with relaxing or washing after longarming.  When I started longarm, everyone said "use 100 percent cotton thread only" and Superior King Tut was the thread of choice.  Our trade is changing like everything else so 100 percent cotton is probably the least used thread now.  I haven't tried the Fantastico 5001 so I can't comment but prior to Fantastico their variegated thread was Rainbow (they still have it).  My embroidery machines love the Rainbow but Millie hates it (breaks a lot).  I now exclusively use Fil-tech (Bobbin Central)  thread.  My machine loves all their threads expecially the magna bobbins.  There's a lot of quilters here that use it too.  Don't get me wrong, Superior has great threads to and a lot of educational info on their site.  One last topic, needles.  I use the 4.0 for the majority of my quilting.  I took a maintenance class a few years ago and was told the 4.0 is what our machines are timed with.  I don't know if this still holds true (my millie is a 2009) but we were also told if you use a needle above 4.0 you should re-time the machine with that needle.  I agree that Batiks do tend to cause some needle flex but if you go slow, especially when crossing seams you should be ok (heck some of the really thick seems, I have to help Millie push the needle through (flywheel push).  My machine is computer driven and I've only broken 2 needles in 8 years (hope I didn't just jinx myself).  You will break a needle someday and it will probably scare the stuffing out of your but it happens and usually doesn't harm our rock solid machines.  So I just said a lot but it's all my opinion.  Everyone here on the forum is great and gives super advice, so take it all in then go for it.  We're here to support you.  Looking forward to see pictures of the quilt.  Oh and I live in Port Huron, Michigan,   if you need some Michigander help :)


Connie
Port Huron, MI   48060
APQS Sales Rep and Educator
Millennium with Intelliquilter (IQ)

"Be a good listener, your ears will never get you in trouble" Frank Tygr


sewsweetgator@aol.com
http://www.yoursite.com
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Rosemary:  I'm using Schmetz needles in both my Ult2, and my Gammill Classic.  The SERV 7 needle Schmetz makes has a special (probably patented)  shape above the eye that makes a larger loop when the needle rises, so the hook picks it up more reliably, resulting in fewer missed stitches.  It also has a different body shape that makes it stiffer than MR needles.  I think it also has a deeper thread groove, but I'm not certain about that.  I did have to re-time my machines to keep the hook from touching the needle, so even though I couldn't measure a difference in scarf depth, there apparently is a difference.  It is quite possible that they will run in your machine without adjustment.  It depends on how tight the timing on your machine is.  If not, it's a simple adjustment to set the clearance so they will.

I'm not suggesting you change the thread combo you were planning.  I just wanted to point out that you might have a problem breaking thread, especially if you chose to use a small needle.  I personally would not use a cotton thread.  Too much lint!  They also aren't all that strong.  I've used Fantastico with success, just as I've used Glide or Sigma, and Superior's new Twist.  I can't sew as fast with them as with my go to thread, YLI Longarm Professional, but can get through a quilt with one or two breaks.  I prefer polyester thread because of their strength and lack of lint (some are more lint free than others, and Fantastico is lint free).  I use Bottom Line in my bobbins almost exclusively. 

I hope I've been of some help, and haven't confused the issue with my comments.  Jim

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So much to learn!!

 Connie and Jim.., Thanks so much for the added  information, NO comments are confusing.. I am trying to learn and absorb all I can and EVERYONE here is a GREAT HELP.

Rest assured,, I love everyone's comments and help, and I am here to LEARN,  so I wouldn't care if I had $$$ worth of anything.. IF it won't work with Lucey.. then I would rather not go through the frustration of thinking it is "me" ..  so EVERYONE, please , don't be afraid to BE honest with me.

so far, I have accomplished a Toddler Boy John Deere quilt and that is the one I used the Robinson Anton Cotton 50#.. both top and bobbin.. that seemed to work really well.  My second project was a roughly 120"  KING square.  That one I used Signature Tex 40# both needle and bobbin... I wasn't too impressed with what I seemed to think was "inconsistency" in the quality of the Thread.

 I would check underneath with a 12" mirror and my stitches would look fine.. and then check it later and it seemed like the bobbin wasn't getting pulled to the top enough.. How can it be right in one area and wrong in another area..  At first according to the manual.. you adjust tightening the top thread and after a pretty good amt of adjusting.. time to go to the bobbin..  I double checked my Bobbin and adjusted it just a tweek to allow the bobbin to actually fall with it's own weight. It sure wasn't much of an adjustment.. I barely moved the screw.

I'm thinking possibly, that I had inconsistent thread but I don't know if that even happens anymore this day in Technology!

Oh.. I did try two different new needles 4.0 also.. just to make sure it wasn't the needle.

That was a cotton pieced top with a Flannel back with Quilters Dream Wool Batting.. I can testify.. it is the first Quilt I have ever FELT THE WARMTH when cuddled up under it :) .. and I haven't even washed it yet  :( 

Thanks Everyone, Rosemary

 


Rosemary

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Rosemary

You should probably search the forum for bobbin tension, and you will find a plethora of information, ranging from how to manually set your bobbin tension to using a TOWA gauge.  Here is a nice video that many have used;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1mRhcquZTM&t=9s  Your opening another can of worms though, one which you will have to decide which works best for you.

Cagey


May your threads be balanced, and your bobbin forever full….

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Hi Cagey,

Thank you so much for Jamie's Video.. I love watching him do EVERYTHING!

How ironic that just this morning I found the NEW video with Dawn from APQS.. cleaning and teaching me all about the bobbin also. :)

Now I can't wait to go and check my bobbin to see if I have lint somewhere that may have caused my inconsistency with that Signature Thread.

Thanks again for the link

Have a Great Day, Rosemary

 


Rosemary

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Rosemary, I will be going to the AQS Show in Grand Rapids in August, will you be there?   APQS will have a booth at the show.  I've only been in Michigan a year so still learning my way around.


Connie
Port Huron, MI   48060
APQS Sales Rep and Educator
Millennium with Intelliquilter (IQ)

"Be a good listener, your ears will never get you in trouble" Frank Tygr


sewsweetgator@aol.com
http://www.yoursite.com
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Hi Deb,

No, I did not get that DVD :(  I will check on-line to see if I can find it.

Thanks for letting me know.

UPDATE:  I found a lot of You tube Videos with Dr. Bob

also, I checked and the DVD is available for Free on the Superior Site :)

AMAZING INFORMATION!! 

So much great information to be aware of.  Thanks again.

Rosemary


Rosemary

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