jimerickson

C: If I were buying a new machine it would be an Innova. That being said, I'd be pretty happy with an APQS, A-1, Gammill, Nolting, or Prodigy. There are things I like about each, and things I don't like. I have an APQS Ult 2 ca. 1997, and a 2000 Gammill Classic. Both were unregulated machines when I got them. Helen and her husband Tony came to my house and studio in early 2011 and installed Intellistitch regulators on both. The Intellistich regulator is great, and I'm happy with both. The only thing I've had to do with them is replace a couple handle switches. You might ask why I say Innova, and there are a few things unique about them that I like. First the head turns on the Innova, so it can be removed from the table without removing the take-up roller. I think maybe the Prodigy's head might also turn. I also like the Lightning digital stitch regulator. I like the table configuration as well, but I'm not quite so sure about the wheels. I don't much like the "erector set" look of the table frame but that just cosmetic. Now I must confess I've only removed the head of my Ult 2 from the table a couple of times, and never on my Gammill, so maybe the turning head feature really isn't a real winner. I don't know about their service, but I've been told the machines are quite problem free. APQS. I don't like their horizontal wheel system. It seems unnecessarily complicated. They've improved it somewhat by using linear bearings on the rails in their Bliss system. But it is expensive. I like their 4 roller system table. I don't really like the batting access system (or more precisely lack of). Their roller configuration accommodates it to some degree. Also on models other than the Millie, there seems to be little adjustment capabilities on the rollers and rails. What I DO like is their customer support and service. It's absolutely great. Gammill: While their tables are well engineered and robust, the batting access system is a joke. I don' think it was designed with how we quilt today in mind. It could be improved, and made simpler by going to a 4 roller system like APQS. The Gammill is strong and dependable. I've heard people refer to them as the Mercedes of quilt machines. But I'd classify them more as the Peterbuilts of quilt machines. The A-1 is a nice machine, maybe the perfect size. The table is very well built, but like the Gammill it's a 3 roller system which requires more adjustment, and adjustment mechanisms that wouldn't be necessary with a 4 roller system like the APQS, Innova or Prodigy. Maybe it's the most user considerate table of all the makes. I don't know much about their service though. It's probably good, but pretty dependent on their MO headquarter. The Nolting Pros are good machines. They use Intellistitch regulators on this line, and the I/S is great. Their tables are well made, but not nearly as refined as the A-1. I think their service is probably quite good. They've made pretty much the same machine/table system for quite some time, so they've had a long time to work out any issues, and I think it's pretty sound. The Prodigy is a nice looking machine. They have a very nice user friendly table. Nice manual lift system (it can be power if you'd like). The one thing holding the Prodigy back as far as I'm concerned, is their rigidly sticking to the L bobbin system. I personally wouldn't consider any other manufacturer. All the machines I've referenced are industrial quality machines built to last decades. While I don't know first hand about support, I think all is pretty good. I can't say that for some of the other machines out there. Size is an interesting issue. It probably has more to do with how and what you quilt than anything else. I personally wouldn't want a machine that wouldn't sew at least 14 inches front to back. Seventeen would probably be better. You have to look at individual machine set ups to see what a machine can actually do. Some smaller measured machines will actually sew a bigger field than other "larger" machines. It has to do with the roller configuration and the "harp" shape of the machine. You can feel pretty secure buying a used model of any of these machines. If there's something wrong with the machine when you get it, it can be repaired and put back into excellent service, but probably there will be nothing wrong to begin with. These machines don't break. Pick a price point, and buy with confidence. This is my personal opinion. I'm not promoting one machine over any other. What I've said reflects the experience I've had, how I personally quilt, and my own personal likes and dislikes. I'd probably be happy with any of them. Jim

C: Sharon's comments should be helpful. I've not had personal experience with either the A-1, or the Nolting. However, I was a member of Nolting's users group, and everyone there seemed quite happy with their service. Similarly, one of our Guild members recently (a couple years ago) bought an A-1. She had a problem with it which they finally solved by replacing the entire head. She's not the easiest person to deal with, so solving her problem to her satisfaction probably speaks well of their service. You haven't asked about Gammill, but I do have first hand experience with them. I replaced the needle bar on my Classic, and one of their service folks walked me through the process over the phone. I felt the experience was pretty positive. I think all three (A-1, Nolting, and Gammill) are relatively easy to repair. They all are industrial machines and require very little repair. (Except for replacing the needle bar on the Gammill - and that was my choice, I wanted the lighter aluminum one, not an item that had worn out,- it's required no repairs) APQS's service and support is outstanding. If service ends up being the determining factor, APQS should be your choice. Jim

Batty: Are you sure it has a 10' table. I've never actually seen one that was 10'. All I've seen are 12' tables. Jim

I've been quilting a series of whole cloth charity quilts on my Gammill, and decided that such a quilt offered an excellent opportunity to compare stitch quality and tension variations of the MR and SERV7 needles. Being whole cloth quilts there would be no piecing seams, or variations in patch fabric to mask actual results. I did a random meander, so I sewed rather rapidly. Now both needles performed well. Both needles were 18/100. I used Tex 40 YLI Longarm Professional as a top thread, Bottom Line as a bobbin thread, and polyester batting. All stitching was done from the front of the machine. No skipped stitches, and no occasional loop on the back was noted with either needle. (I've had an issue with the Gammill leaving an occasional single stitch loop on the back recently, but increasing the tension on the thread take-up spring seems to have eliminated that problem) I closely examined the stitch appearance both top and bottom, for both needles. The directional tension changes was my focus. While the difference was not great, I think the Schmetz SERV7 needle out performed the Groz-Beckert titanium coated MR san 11 needle. The Schmetz needle produced more uniform stitches. Going in bad directions (back and to the left) the Schmetz stitches were more balanced, making all the stitches look more uniform. I emphasize again, there was not a great deal of difference. While the difference was not great, in my opinion, it is enough to convince me that the Schmetz SERV7 needle gives me better performance. I plan to switch and use the Schmetz needles in the future. Jim

I've done a bit more experimenting with the Schmetz SERV7, this time on my Gammill Classic. I have confirmed that the scarf in the Schmetz needle is not as deep as on the Groz-Beckert MR needle. Timed as the Gammill is, the hook appears to just touch the Schmetz needle. With the MR needle I can slip a thickness on note paper between the hook and the needle scarf. (I think the paper is about .003 inches thick.) This is the reason I needed to change the hook adjustment on Zelda to eliminate striking the Schmetz needle. I did some sewing with both the SERV7 and the MR needles, on a very challenging sandwich with heavy stabilizer to test needle deflection and skipped stitches. Both needles did skip stitches occasionally, but the MR needle was worse than the SERV7. Now the additional clearance of the MR needle may have played a role, but I'm ready to say Schmetz's claim of reduced skipped stitches with the SERV7 needles is valid. The reduced deflection on the SERV7 needle appears to help sewing performance. Thought some of you may be interested. Jim

Green: I think you may be over valuing the Quilt Glide feature. A lot of folks do micro work with the regulators turned off. I even do that sometimes. That said, I think you might be missing the value of the electronic channel locks, and I haven't heard you even mention the M bobbin system. These were musts for me. I have an Ultimate 2 that came without any bells and whistles. These two features were so important to me that I fabricated them. Once you use an M bobbin equipped machine, you'll never want to go back to the L's. Only half the bobbin changes! The thread cutter seems to be a wash, not many folks who have them actually use them. My Ult 2 is a 20" machine like the Lenni (in my configuration I actually have about two inches more sewing field than the Lenni), and I'm satisfied, but if I were buying another machine, it would be bigger. I find myself struggling to SID around blocks larger than 14", and there are a significant number of quilt patterns with blocks larger than 14". That's when I wish Zelda (my Ult 2) was a bit bigger. Moving the quilt back and forth to do that job gets old. Doing piano key borders without both channel locks requires more effort. Just some more things to think about . Regards. Jim

I had a set of red Snappers for a while, but sold them. Like Oma, they got in way near the take-up roller, required more extra back to attach, and I never felt confident I had the back (or the top for that matter) was attached parallel to the rollers. Jim

Green: Get the Millie. If you think you'd like the electronic channel locks, you really will, and they're not offered on any other APQS model. These machines, when properly adjusted, move so easily that there's no issue from the weight side. You'll also probably come to really appreciate the extra six inches of reach the bigger machine offers. Get the M bobbin system as well. You'll love that too. Jim

Just another brief up-date. I've completed several quilts using the same Schmetz SERV 7 size 18 needle I began my test with. I feel it has performed well. It has not deflected enough to hit Zelda's hook, so I have not damaged the point. (something that happened with some frequency with the MR needles) I did note 4 skipped stitches on my last quilt. They happened when I was sewing a loop up and back toward the 11 o'clock position. I think I was probably sewing too fast. These are the only skipped stitches I observed so far. I think bearding is also less of a problem with this needle. Jim

I said that I wasn't going to experiment with the Organ needles anymore. Well, I had a couple of small jobs, and decided to try the Organs out again. The only problem I had was that I broke the thread once. Now this rarely happens with the YLI Longarm Professional thread I usually use. It might have been due to a quilt sandwich that wasn't just right, or more likely because of timing. You'll recall that I re-timed Zelda for the Schmetz needles, but not the Organs, You'll also note that the scarf of the Organ needle is the smallest of the needles I've been testing. It could be that the hooks meets the scarf a bit higher than it should, and that "lack of space" was responsible for the break, or maybe I was just sewing too fast, I'm not sure. I slowed down and didn't break the thread again. In fact, I sewed the second project with Glide thread, sewing relatively slowly, and had no problem with that thread either. The Organ needle worked OK. Now unless you have easy access to Organ needles and problems with buying either the Schmetz or Groz-Beckert needles, there doesn't seem to a good reason to change. In fact the smaller scarf might be a reason not to use them. All the needles I tested seem to be priced pretty much the same when purchased in 100 needle packs (some where between $30-$40), so cost shouldn't be much of a consideration. All the needles tested worked well. No missed stitches when the timing was set properly. Because of the different shapes of the needles, the Schmetz and Organ needles poke a smaller hole in the fabric than the MR needles. Supposedly, that allows you to use one size larger needle of the non-MR with the same fabric appearance. So you could use an 18 instead of a 16 with the same look. Larger needles are stiffer, so that could be a benefit of moving away from MR's. On the other hand the MR's are probably more timing forgiving. You decide. I like the Schmetz SERV 7 enough to switch. I bought 50 each of 16's and 18's, and will use the MR's I have on my Gammill. Jim

Now that I've completed the quilt I was working on and removed it from my frame, I've had the opportunity to try the Organ needle I recently bought. Replacing the Schmetz needle I did the last quilt with, I was able to sew. The stitch quality on a VERY small sample, was similar to that of the Schmetz it replaced. I checked the timing and the needle to hook clearance was correct, but the vertical position of the hook in the scarf seemed a bit high. My guess is that the fact that the Organ's scarf is significantly shorter than on the Groz-Beckert needle, makes timing a bit more critical. If I were to use this needle all the time, I think I'd change my timing slightly. As I said, it did sew, and sewed OK, so I could use it if I wanted. I don't really intend on using this needle, so I won't be testing it any further. Jim

I measured 3 different size MR needle this morning, and think I know how they're sized. The size number represents 10/1000 of an inch. So, and 3.0 would be .030", a 3.5 would be .035", a 4.0 would be .040", and so on. Interestingly enough, they don't measure the same side to side, and front to back. The size measure is front to back. The side to side measure is a bit greater. Another mistake. The 134 R designation belongs to Groz-Beckert, not Schmetz as I earlier speculated. I've corrected that in my earlier post. The CANU system belongs to Schmetz, and is used by them exclusively. It means CAtalog NUmber. It specifies the needle length, the first two digits I think, followed by a colon. I don't know what the rest of the digits signify. After the numbers there will be one or more capital letters, which identify the point. If there is no letter, it signifies that the point is the standard round point, usually identified by other manufactures as an R point. The pack of SERV 7 Schmetz needles I received has no such letter, so they apparently are R point needles. Jim

A bit more info, and a couple of corrections to what I've told you so far. First the corrections: The 134R which I thinks is a Groz-Beckert designation, and the 135 x 5 which I think is Singer's, are the same system, not different. Also the 100/mm measurement I attributed to the MR needle size set, actually belongs to the metric system. So a 55 metric would be a needle that's approximately .55 mm in diameter. The MR sizes seem to be made in about .25 mm increments, but I'm not absolutely sure. Now, the new info. I've measured the needles I bought again, and note that the two stepped needles are thicker in the large step than the MR needle. This might validate the claim by their makers that they resist deflection much better than regular needles. The G-B MR needle is .045 in diameter, while the Schmetz SERV 7 is .050 in the thick step, and the Organ is .048. Another claim I'v run across is that these needles make a smaller hole than a similar sized MR needle. That claim makes sense when you look at the respective needles closely. The "hump" on the MR needle makes it bigger than the others. What differences does this make, you might ask? Bearding! The larger hole makes fiber migration easier with the MR needle. Now both of these claims (less deflection, and less bearding) have been validated, subjectively anyway, by my test. I'll keep you posted. Jim

Just a bit more info on needle nomenclature. Because there are multiple needle identification systems being used around the world, a needle pack will probably have more than one ID on the pack. This makes it even more confusing when you buy needles. For instance lets take our usual long arm needles. The following are 4 sets of ID nomenclature not including the actual needle size: 134 1955-01 135 x 5 DPx 5 MR MR MR MR FFG SET SES R SAN 11 The first line is the needle system. The second is the type needle, the third the needle point, and the fourth is any special application, which I think is only used by GroZ-Beckert. To complicate things even further, many machines will accept and function properly with needles made for different systems. For instance, the 134 and 135 x 5 are different systems yet our machines will function with needles from either system. I think the multiple identifications, and in fact all the different systems goes back to the early days of sewing machine manufacture. Each sewing machine manufacturer made needles for their machines. Each used their own set on identification codes. When there were dedicated needle manufacturers, new machine manufacturers would use existing needles if possible, using the needle nomenclature used by the original needle maker. In 1942 needle sizes (size, not system) were standardized and the needle manufacturers replaced 40 or so different designations in use at the time. Two descriptions were agreed upon: Singer's familiar 06 thru 27, and the metric set of 50 thru 130. These identifications refer to the diameter of the needle above the scarf, but not at any reinforced part of the blade. At some point after that I think Singer invented the MR series of needles intended for automated sewing and established a new size designation set. The MR system identifies the diameter of the needle in 100th mm - 2.5 - 6.5. I believe the Schmetz SERV7 needle is their design for automated sewing, and I have a feeling they will discontinue the MR type needles they have made in the past. As for my experience with the Schmetz SERV7 needle I've been trying: I'm almost finished with a queen size quilt that I've custom quilted. I'm am pleased with the needle's performance. Again realize this is all subjective, but I've experienced no skipped stitches (actually that's objective), the directional change in tension seems diminished, and there seems to be less needle deflection (flex). Overall stitch quality seems to be improved as well. I'll eventually get around to testing the Organ needle I bought, but I didn't want to change needle types in the middle of the quilt. I'll keep you all posted. Jim

I received my new needles this week. Two Schmetz variations, and one Organ. I've tried the two Schmetz, but not the Organ. Let me start by saying that on my machine the needles were not interchangeable. They fit and sewed fine, but made more noise than the Groz-Beckert they replaced. After sewing a bit with each different Schmetz, I decided to check my timing because I guessed the additional noise was from the hook striking the needle. Sure enough when I checked the hook was hitting the needle. Not enough to mark the needle, but definitely deflecting it a bit. Initial observations: The various needles differed in overall length from the longest (the Organ) at 1.526" to the shortest (Schmetz SERV 7) at 1.520". The Groz-Beckert and Singer (same needle) were 1.522", and the other Schmetz measured 1.525". All had a needle bar shank diameter of .078". The Organ and the Schmetz SERV7 have stepped diameters on the needle body, while the other 3 where the same the length of the needle. While looking at the needle suggested that the scarf depth on the Groz-Beckert was deeper than the other 3, and the reason I believed the hook was hitting the needle, I was unable to measure any difference. Now I don't have extremely accurate measuring tools, so there might be a difference, but I couldn't find it (BTW the measurement I got was .010 for them all). The length of the scarf did vary some. the Groz-Beckert was the longest at .140", and the Organ was the shortest at .115". I've re-timed my machine so that the hook does not strike the Schmetz needle and have done some sewing with it. (It is the SERV7 varriant, (20:05 17), not the one Heidi has been using (20:05 1)) I am favorably impressed. It may be that the diagram of the needle groove-eye- point configuration I saw, has so impressed me that I have a self fulfilling expectation, but the needle seems to sew nicer. I've noticed no skipped stitches, but then I rarely had them when using the G-B's. The stitching I have done has not been terribly demanding, but I've noticed no more needle deflection with the Schmetz than my usual G-B. The stitching noise level seems to be about the same. All my experiments have involved size 18 / 4.0 size needles. Since I re-timed my machine, I plan on using the Schmetz needle in the near future. The timing adjustment should allow me to test the Organ needle as well. I'll continue to share what I learn. Jim

Lyn: I think the FFG/SES actually identifies the point configuration of the needle, not the plating. I believe that the GEBEDUR designation identifies the titanium coating. The FFG or SES identifies a modified ball point. Sharper than a regular ball point, but not as sharp as an R point, which is what we often call a "sharp" point. Thanks for the SAN code. Now if we can only identify what application each number code means. Jim

For years I've puzzled over sewing machine needles and the vast range of nomenclature to identify them. It started more than ten years ago, with my wife's Babylock serger, and has been a puzzle for me ever since. Little by little I'm beginning to unravel this mystery. Heidi's post of a week or so about Schmetz needles got me going again. I have used Groz-Beckert 134 MR GEBEDUR FFG/SES needles almost exclusively, with an occasional Singer 1955 MR needle thrown in. They've served me well, but I'm always interested in trying new things with the hope I might find something that I like better. With that in mind, I just ordered some needles made by Schmetz, and Organ that I think will work in my machine (this is where the mystery comes in) It is difficult to know exactly what needle works in my machine from the package nomenclature. Here are the package ID's of the needles I use, and the ones I ordered: Singer Groz-Beckert Schmetz* Schmetz Organ 1955-01-MR4.0 134 MR CANU:20:05 1 CANU:20:05 17 135x5 Set/R 1955MR 134R 134R SERV 7 DPx5 134 135x5 134 SAN 11 135x5 135x5 SERV7 135x7 797 DPx5 DPx 5 MR SY 1955 DPx5 SERV 7 134R - 1955 DPx5 The Schmetz needle with the * is the one Heidi is using. The other is the one listed as the long arm needle on the web site link that was referenced by someone else in that thread. Now I do know what some of the designations mean. For instance the MR stands for a needle configuration intended for multi-directional sewing. The 1955 represents a style of needle I think, and is probably duplicated by the R, and Set/R designation. The DPx5 I think means the same as the 135x5 and the 134 which I believe is the length of the needle, and the position of the eye. The CANU 20 I think represents the thickness of the needle shank. I know that the SAN 11 is important, but I don't know exactly what it means. Perhaps, how large the scarf is. The MR (multi range) needle provides a particular blade configuration and shank that is stiffer than others to proved needle deflection resistance. The SERV 7 design provides the same sort of benefit as the MR, but in a bit different way. Both have a larger and deeper thread groove in the front of the needle. Interestingly, the size needle recommended by Superior Threads, deals not with what you're sewing, but rather what thread (mostly size) that you're using. I notice that they recommended using an 18 or 19 size needle for King Tut, and a 19 or 21 size for Lava. Perhaps folks who use these threads (I don't), and have problems, have so, because they are trying to use too small a needle. The size of the groove in the front of the needle being the issue, not the needle eye size, needle diameter, or the fabric being sewed. I plan to experiment with the three new to me needles on the list, and find out if, and how well, they work. I'll up date this thread with my impressions and thoughts on each. Jim BTW, I'm not quite sure about the nomenclature on the second Schmetz, and I'll check it, and make any appropriate corrections when the packs of needles arrive. Also, anyone who know exactly what any of the designation codes mean, feel free to share your knowledge.

I use YLI Longarm Professional on the top and Bottom Line in the bobbin almost exclusively. Occasionally I'll use Sigma or Glide (I find them inter changeable). I wind all my own bobbins. Have two winders, one for Bottom Line, and the second for whenever I use tex 40 in the bobbin (not too often) I also use Fantastico when I want a variegated thread. I've never used King Tut, and probably never will. I don't like cotton thread because of all the lint. Using only a handful of threads allows me to limit my thread inventory to relatively few cones (maybe 100), and even some colors of them, I don't use often. If you're going to make any money quilting, you can't spend all your time adjusting the tension and frogging out bad stitches just to get some exotic thread to work, so I don't use many different combos. I just finished a project on Zelda where I changed from a disk tension system to a rotary system. I've spent most of an entire quilt, working out all the adjustments. It is amazing how many things come into play to get everything just right. It is also amazing to me how many parts must be "tweaked" to get them to fit and function exactly as they are supposed to. As a result, it comes as no surprise to me that different folks/machines handle the same thread differently. Something as simple as the angle of 3 hole tensioner will affect stitch quality. It is quite likely that very few people even with the same model machine, have their machines adjusted exactly the same way, or have all the exact same parts. Jim

Teresa: Get yourself a set of Edgerider wheels. It sounds to me like your wheels are worn out. I didn't think the standard wheels were black, mine were a kind of dark brown, but I don't know of any after market wheel for the vertical wheel machines other than Edgeriders. Zelda had original wheels when she was delivered. replacing them made a world of difference in how she moved. Send me photos of your wheels and tracks, that might help me ID what might be wrong. Jim

Teresa: What kind of wheels do you have on it? I've got Edgeriders. How about the cord? Zelda moves so easily that the weight/stiffness of the cord will push her around. Are the machine axles straight? How about the rubber grommets between the machine and the axles? Any play in them? Are your handles tight? There's got to be something that not right. Jim

These machines should all sail along really smoothly. If they don't there's something out of adjustment. Teresa: I'm sure that your Lenni should work better than it does. I have an Ult2 like you used to have, and it too moves really nicely. The Lenni should do so as well. I think you had a damaged carriage originally, right? I don't believe you've ever got Lenni set up properly. I don't like horizontal wheel systems because they are so much more difficult to keep properly adjusted. I much prefer the vertical systems the Ult2 had. That being said, you still ought to be able to get your machine to move very nicely. You might have to adjust things more often, but you should be able to get it to move smooth and easy. Start searching for the problem. Does the vertical movement seem stiff, or the horizontal. Look to whichever wheel set gives the most problem. Look for a dislocated or bent wheel arm, or uneven wheel contact. There's something wrong. Jim

I don't know how long the Millie leaders are. I made a set for my Ult 2 from cotton duck I bought at Hancock's. I made the take-up roller leader from 48" wide material, and the top and back roller leaders 36" by buying 72" fabric and cutting it in half. I then sewed a 1" pocket on the cut edge of the back and top leaders, and on one of the selvege edged o the 48" piece. I also serged both cut ends of each leader. Why so long, you ask. Partly because it was simple to size them that way. No cutting on the take up, and a single cut down the middle for the top and back. But mostly, I did it that way because I wanted long leaders. I sit and pin my quilts from the front of the machine. It was a bit of a struggle with the original short leaders. With a long take-up leader, I can roll out as much leader as I need to comfortably pin. The excess leader fabric takes up almost no space on my rollers. I used double sided tape to attach my leaders to the rollers. It allowed me to carefully lay down a straight line of tape - I think I used the seam in the roller as a guide to keep the tape line parrallel to the roller. After the tape was set on the roller, I removed the tape covering, and carefully stuck the selvege edge of the leader fabric to the tape. After that was done, I put masking tape down the entire length of the attachment -half on the fabric, half on the roller. I also put about six or eight strips of masking tape perpendicular to the roller, about 3/4 of the length around the roller. I did both ends, and several pieces throughout the length. I added the masking tape to provide additional strength to the joint. After a while, the masking tape becomes almost permenent, and won't come loose. Pay attention to the direction the roller turns the leader on so that you don't fold the fabric back over itself when it's rolled, thus putting more stress on the joint. They've been on nearly 4 years now, and have performed to my satisfaction. Hope this helps. Jim

I'd say $3500 is a great price! My friend Suzie paid $6500 for her smaller Princess model, and felt like she was getting a great buy. A 14' frame is nice if you can fit it in, you can always use the extra length.. If you absolutely can't fit it in, I'm sure you could find a local fabricator/welder who could shorten it for you. Good luck. Jim

The KenQuilt Royal was a fine 26" (maybe it was 24") long arm. A friend has a Princess which is the smaller 22" version, and she loves it. They were made in both a stitch regulated version, and non-regulated version. Do you know which this one is? The stitch regulators on the KenQuilts were Intellistitch, which are outstanding, so support of the electronics should still be available. If it's unregulated, you could have an Intellistitch regulator fitted to it for about $3000, if you liked. The Royal came with an "M" bobbin system which gives you lots of bobbin thread. The tables were aluminum, and were quite satisfactory. As for repair of the rest of the machine, these are industrial quality machines, and not much goes wrong with them. I think you'd be able to get whatever parts you might need in the after market, so I wouldn't be afraid of one simply because they are no longer made. Edgerider makes wheels for them so that would take care of that need. If you like it, and can buy it reasonably, I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't. Jim

Linda: I've used several different longarms over the last few years, and this is what I've found. Unless the machine is of industrial quality, and the table likewise, you will eventually end up being dissatisfied with it. The "bells and whistles" that come with the machine are not nearly as important as the design and manufacturer's support. What I tell my friends is, to only buy an APQS, Gammill, Nolting, A1-Elite, Prodigy, Innova or Ken-Quilt, and then only the big aluminum purpose built machines, not any "streched" machine. I say these because I know they will perform and that the tables they come on are up to the task. To me, it doesn't make any difference how old the machine is, and if budget is an issue, an old unregulated machine like an APQS Ult1 or 2 will work fine. If you can't afford one of these, save your money until you can. Buying anything else will just frustrate you, and Lord knows there are enough frustrations with good equipment. All of these machines have good reputations for customer support. If I had known this when I began, I'd have saved myself a lot of money. But then I guess, we all have to pay for our educations. I don't like the Tin Lizzys, HQ's and the rest of the second line machines, even the purpose built ones, because the frames/tables just don't measure up and I don't think the customer service does either. Who can do good work on a flimsy platform? Well there you have my fairly well informed, I might add, opinion. Jim