smorris Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Hi everyone Just in case anyone missed this information I thought I'd mention Dawn's post which is definitely one of those things you'll want to print and refer to later. Dawn has posted comprehensive step by step instructions on what to do to make sure your lenni table and machine run smoothly together. They are under the heading Discovery on Lenni table - the link is: http://www.apqs.com/quiltboard/viewthread.php?tid=13650 Thanks Dawn, Sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeoldeforest Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 yep - it was an immediate copy of Dawn's post and an email to myself and a save to APQS advice/training folder. Great Minds Think Alike...lol Dawn is always my APQS educator hero!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Hi Sue Dawn is a treasure and her instructions will help lots of people. We thought we had sorted out the table some time back. But recently I noticed that the machine was rolling into the middle by itself. I knew the table and carriage was as level as it was going to be, so started to look under the carriage to see what was happening. We noticed that when either the front or back wheels were in the centre of the carriage, the aluminium was flexing and causing a dip to occur - thus allowing the machine to roll into the centre of the carriage. Thus the struggle to keep on a line while quilting. This is no great drama for us, as my husband is going to reinforce under the carriage with a couple of pieces of metal. As for why it's happened I don't know. I have the Hartley extended base on all the time, could it be adding extra weight? Appreciate your thoughts on this one. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted November 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi Judy I think this is a question for our Engineers. I can't create the problem on my Lenni, so I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you. Is there any chance you could take photos of the flex and email them to Amy aanderson@apqs.com for her to pass on to the Engineers. Thanks Sue in australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maree Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi Sue, My Lenni also wants to glide by itself into the centre. I have checked and all is square and level. My front wheels also lift slightly when doing an extra wide panto and the machine is at the back edge. I know this is going to happen and just take a little weight with my hands at that edge. Also while we are on problems, my backing roller has the canvas attached about 1 1/2 inches different to the top and take up roller. I noticed this with my zips and couldn't get the quilt back to stop sqewing. I have re-adjusted my zips to the takeup roller and all is fine. Thankyou and look forward to your info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roberta Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 I had the same problem with my carriage. When I placed a level on the carriage it turned out that the carriage was not level. My rep called APQS and they sent me out a replacement and I mailed the unlevel one back in. Judy - I would greatly appreciate it if you could tell me how your husband is going to attach metal under the carriage as I still have the problem slightly. My husband has a hobbie machine shop and I would love for him to do the same for me. I think the extra stiffness would be beneficial.. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted November 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi Maree You have the one piece rollers. I believe that your leaders are stuck to roller with masking tape. If two of your leaders match up with each other, then you could unroll the one that doesn't and remove the canvas and move it along the roller 1 1/2" until they are all in line. That should work. Do you mean that the carriage rolls into the centre of the table? or do you mean the machine rolls to the middle of the carriage? Getting the wheels at the front of the machine not to lift when you are working at the back is just practice, sounds like you've got it sorted. Vertical wheels have nothing to hold them down like the horizontal wheel. How many quilts did you get through this week - more photos please. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted November 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi Maree and Judy I've been thinking about your problems. Maree More machine is almost perfectly level, its 0.05 degrees higher at the front than the back. If I push my Lenni head all the way to the front roller and I have the lead plugged into the machine it rolls back on the carriage slightly. If I don't have the lead in it stays put. I wonder if the weight of the lead is dragging your machine back? Judy, If you move your machine with just the tips of your fingers, can you still see flex in the carriage? Best wishes Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi Sue, Maree, Roberta Yes, I've had the cord pull the machine back in the past, so now have the cord above the machine . What happens - I've got the machine unplugged with the plug sitting on top of the machine. I give a gentle push with the tips of my fingers and it starts moving into the centre. In fact, at each end you can see the machine ever so slightly bouncing as it rolls. This is all without the machine on! The funny thing is that the carriage is level to start with, and only flexes when the weight of the machine moves to certain points. I'll take some photos for the engineers and use a ruler to show them how much it flexes. Roberta He was planning to drill through the aluminium and attach two pieces of metal under the outside edges. I think he'd need to put bolts underneath, as I don't want anything to drag on the underside of the machine head. We're not going to do it until my new edgerider wheels arrive and we have to take the wheels off etc - probably around Christmas. So we've got a bit of time to plan it! If your husband has any good ideas, I'd like to hear them. You never know, if I get some photos to APQS engineers fairly quickly, they might be able to advise us on how to reinforce the carriage. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roberta Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Thanks Judy. I talked to my husband about it last night and he thought bolting might be the only way to do it too other than welding which he doesn't do. He said he was going to look at it. I would love to hear how it works for you. I would also like to hear how you like the edgewinder wheels. I have been thinking of getting them for a while but dh doesn't think they will make much difference so I would be interested to hear. When I had the original problem the machine would just roll either to the front or the back depending on the the position of the machine. I would have to put my needle down just to pull the bobbin thread up or work on the quilt. It was because it was flexing in the middle. It made it difficult to quilt in certain directions. I think it is because it is not stiff enough for the weight of the machine. When I got my new carriage it was fine but it has started to roll a little again. I don't know if the engineers were made aware of the problem when I sent my original carriage back in. It was sent in on the warranty. I had to fill out a form. I didn't know you could talk to them directly. You can tell them I had the same problem when you send in your photo's if you like so they know thats yours isn't the only carriage that has had the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaR Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Two of us Lenni owners were talking last night, and their carriage is bowing also. We are going to take two, 15" pieces of 90 degree angled aluminum and 8 short bolts with nuts, and attach the angled aluminum, one strip under each side of the carriage. That will strenthen the carriage and support the weight of the machine sitting on it or being rolled back and forth on it. Won't have to worry about it bowing, or having to order a new one or ship the old one back any more. RitaR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenni Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 I always start my Lenni with needle down so it is needle down everytime I stop. I also turn off the SR if I stop for more than a second. It works for me and keeps my machine from rolling if it wants to roll. Needle down is one of those functions I can't live without. Of course I only do pantos. Taping the Cord to the top of the machine helped tremendously with my machine's desire to roll. I wonder Maree if you have the problem I had when doing Pantos. I would call the Panto that comes with the machine a wide panto. I would get to the back edge and I would have to pull on the machine and the head would lift. I found out it had nowhere else to go. I discovered I was not placing my panto properly on the table. I did not account for the bulk on the takeup roller. The problem would get worse the further down the quilt. I now put a piece of foam a few inches thick on the takeup roller, move the head all the way back and set my laser at the lowest point on the panto. I then make sure I can get to the highest point on the panto. I usually have to move my panto up a few inches some times to the center of the table. Once I do this I know I won't be running out of throat space towards the end of the quilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Well that's interesting that four of us have the flexing problem and that one has been replaced already! Being in Australia, it's impractical to send it back to be possibly sent another the same which will bow over time again. So yes, we'll have to fix the problem ourselves again. I would like to know though what APQS can do to help us with this problem. This seems to be an engineering problem - there are no side supports for the carriage and the weight of the machine is causing the tray to flex. Perhaps they can send us the support material that we can bolt into place, to strengthen the plate. It seems crazy that we are all running off trying to fix this problem when there are engineers at APQS who can figure out how to do the reinforcing, what to use and how to attach it, then give us the materials and instructions for us to fix the problem. These machines are under warranty, and I for one would like to have 'approved' fixtures from APQS so that we don't void our warranties! Some emails to technical might be in order. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Hi Sue if you're out there I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could contact technical for us. I'll try to post some pictures, but in the meantime, I'm sure that they would be able to find a bowed carriage and be able to simulate the problem we're having. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maree Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Sue, I meant my machine rolls into the centre of the carriage. I have found that if I have my expander base on, my machine doesn't move to the centre. It must be the extra weight at the front. I have lifted my cord up off the floor and that helped also. It is not always practical to have the extension on, so maybe I can work out something to add weight to the front of the machine. I am doing a custom quilt now, It takes soooo long working out what to do. Guess I will get quicker in the planning stage. I'll post some pictures when I finish. Bye and thankyou for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaR Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 We bolted the angled aluminum on the underside of the carriage, and it makes a big diff. Glad we did it. Can't say more. (By MY choice) RitaR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Maree and Judy Sorry I was offline all day yesterday, I think my server must have been down - I got quite a bit of quilting done though! Judy, The technical team will be keeping an eye on this forum and will be looking out for your photos) I'm no engineer thats for sure, but I tried pushing down on the edges of each side of my Lenni carriage and there was no give at all, even with my weight, so I don't think there is a problem that would get worse in time, so I was wondering if you'd like to swap carriages with me. I could post mine off to you today. I also layed a steel ruler from front to back on each of the carriage sides to see if there was a dip in the middle and there wasn't. Let me know if you want to swap. Maree, do you think if you raised the two front legs of your table just slightly, that that might stop the rolling? Sounds like you are really keeping your Lenni busy and having fun!! Best wishes Sue in australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Sue I've forwarded on to you a copy of the email and all the photos I took of the carriage. Please let me know if you don't receive it - I reduced the size of the photos by 50%, but it was still a fair bit to send. I placed the base of my Westalee ruler across the rails and on top of the end supports for the carriage and used it as a straight edge. You'll see where I put a ruler against the straight edge and measured both the central and outer points, when the wheels were in the central position. There's a difference of one eighth of an inch in the centre where is flexes - just enough to pull the machine into the centre of the table. Thankyou for your offer of swapping carriages. I might wait to hear from APQS technical first - Roberta has found that her second carriage is starting to flex like the first one. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Roberta Sorry I didn't answer your question about the edgeriders. Why am I getting them? Well I can't pinpoint the exact reason - it's more a desire that some updated wheels will perform better than the standard wooden ones. Maybe I'm off on a totally wrong tangent and it's been the carriage that has been the little annoyance! Do I also dare say that maybe it's me! Anyway, I decided some time ago that they would be my Christmas present. It will be much better than chocolate (I think!). Funny thing is, we always hear from people who swear by a new product, but perhaps not from those who found the product average. Watch this space. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Rita Good to hear from you and that it's made a big difference. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roberta Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I just want to say that right now my machine is only rolling slightly. Not really all that much and I haven't actually measured to see if the carriage is level, I just made an assumption based on my past experience. Sorry, I should know better than to do that. I edited the original post to be more accurate. I just did the push test on the edges of the carriage as Sue did and they were very stiff. So maybe, the slight rolling I am having is being caused by something else. I did adjust my bars recently so I need to do a once over on the entire system so I know exactly what is causing the rolling, although it is not enough to cause me any trouble. I am really sorry if I caused a misunderstanding. I will be more careful in the future. Judy - thanks for answering my question on the wheels. I actually have the same reasons for wanting them and that is what I was going to ask for for Christmas. But when I discussed it with dh I couldn't come up with a really good reason for getting them. I would love to hear how you like them when you get them -- Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Roberta I'm sure you didn't mean to be misleading. Sometimes I type something in and post the reply and think OMG how will they interpret that? Apologies to technical support for jumping the gun - I can really only speak for myself. Irrespective of how many people may be having the same problem - my photos clearly show the flex in the middle of the carriage and what is important is that it's affecting the movement of my machine. I'm looking forward to technical comments. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judysmith Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Oh on the wheels - I'm looking forward to trying them and will endeavour to give a fair assessment of their performance! Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roberta Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Judy - thanks for being so understanding. I will try to do some measuring today or tomorrow. I have many appointments. On my first carriage it was very obvious too. What we did was lay the level on the on the carriage floor and it was just off at both ends. Or flexing in the middle. It felt like my machine was fighting me in certain directions. I am looking forward to hearing technical comments too as I never considered that re-inforcing the carriage might negate my warranty. I hope you love your wheels, I am still wanting to get some. I love new things especially if they will help with my quilting. and it might be enough to get me some , ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaR Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Roberta, thanks for pointing the warranty out. I didn't even think of the warranty, since it isn't the machine itself.. (In other words I could probably buy another carriage if I messed it up, but not another machine.) It solved our problem, we didn't have to pay to have it shipped to APQS, and they didn't have to pay for fixing it, supplies, etc... Judy, hope it doesn't mess up your warranty..!! I'd feel so awful. Guess I'll find out. RitaR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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