Ferret Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Has anyone done this? I am trying to change mine. It's been tempremntal ever since I have had the machine, and I think has recently gained a burr somewhere I don't seem to be able to get at. As the machine has become too tricky to use I decided the time had come to bite the bullet and change it. Well we have it partly off and now can't budge it. Not on or off. I think we need to move it about another 5mm but how? I am really impressed with the instructions that came with it (and frankly it was worth the money just for the improved timing instructions), but we aren't quite sure what they mean by walk it off the shaft. We do understand not leavering against the frame, but as that is the only thing to leaver against we are not stumped. Any suggestions? Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally posted by Ferret but we aren't quite sure what they mean by walk it off the shaft. Ferret Take your fingers if you can't get a good enough grip with the screw drivers on each side and with them (your fingers) on each side of the Hook...wiggle and wiggle back and forth walking the hook assembly toward the end so that it can come off the hook shaft. Do you have all the screws open to their fullest so nothing is scaring the post..... with a bit of time and effort it should just come off.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi Ferret Put that screwdriver behind the hook assembly as described and move the screwdriver back and forward as Bonnie suggested. Often it it gets stuck and needs a bit more persuasion to get it off. The screw that held it in place on the shaft has probably burred the shaft ever so slightly and its that burr thats keeping it from sliding off easily. Just keep working on it. When you get it off, you will need to check to see if there is a burr on the shaft and finely buff it out so you don't have trouble positioning the new hook assembly. Only buff that shaft just enough to remove the burr. Good luck sue in australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Ferret, Make sure all three screws on the hook assembly are completely loose. Then insert two flat-bladed screwdrivers between the hook assembly and the round collar just behind it. It sounds like you should have created enough space to to that (the collar is what is holding the machine's shaft in place. Now twist the screwdrivers as if you are turning their tips (one clockwise, the other counterclockwise). This tip twisting action should help you pry the hook off the shaft. It will be tough, especially if the three hook assembly screws have "bitten down" into the shaft and created grooves or ridges on the shaft. Let us know if you can't budge it; I'm sure Amy has additional tips to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 So.... by the time I posted we had been at it about 30 minutes. The screws were entirely out. With two of us putting an obscene amount of force on it we managed to walk it off in about another 30 minutes. Enough force that I got smacked in the face with a screw driver when it finally let go. That slight burr, not on mine, it was huge (relatively). Still it's gone now and putting the new assembly on was a piece of cake. Timing is a heck of a lot easier now too. I've now replaced the needle (3 times different sizes) the bobbin case, bobbin, hook assembly, pig tails and the thread. Master piece still won't run for me. It always had in the past but now it just plain won't. It still looks like it is breaking about 1/4" after the eye of the needle. Any suggestions? In fairness I can still do customer quilts, so this isn't the end for the world. It is the only thread I use on art quilts and wholecloths though. Oh yes I checked the needle plate for burrs too. The old hook assembly does look well worn and beat up. I also found one burr on it pretty much where I expected and couldn't get at with it in place. Still it looks like that isn't the culprit. Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Hi Ferret Have you tried running a different colour of Masterpiece. I don't have any luck with Masterpiece its not advised for longarm quilting but since you haven't had problems before, I wonder if its that particular cone. Do you have an old needle where the eye has been worn in - you could try that. Also try turning the first pigtail guide to the left of the screw (7or 8 oclock) and see if that helps it did for me when I was working on a customer's machine last week. The thread was breaking at the needle, but it was caused by the thread jumping out of the first pigtail and hanging up. She was using Aurifil cotton. Good luck Sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Hi Sue, Yup I do run it a lot. I've tried 5 different cones, all different colours. Three have run well before two are brand new. I've tried three new needles from different packs I've been caught with pigtail problems before too. I turned the old one first, no change. Then I replaced it, still no go. Thanks for the suggestions though, it lets me know I am thinking along the right lines. Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ferret...I think you are ALMOST there....that sweet spot just hasn't yet been achieved.... I found that I needed to mark the back of my needle with a mark of where I wanted my hook to hit and with a very powerful glass I was able to dial it in exactly where I wanted it to hit, the other way I was just such a tiny tiny bit off and I couldn't use the thinner threads either. Now I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ah, so more jiggling with the timing then. For the thinner threads do you have it hit lower or higher on the needle? Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Bonnie, when you had a problem with the thinner threads were they breaking, or not making stitches? Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ferret actually both....it was how the hook was hitting...if the hook itself was to high I was not getting a stitch at all or a poor stitch...then when I got it to tight it would cut the threads......wish I was there its so hard to explain over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ferret, If the hook's rotation is a bit too high (in other words, the hook point is getting there too LATE and the needle has started its ascension), it can cause thread breakage. Also double-check the clearance between the new hook assembly and the hook retaining finger; make sure there's plenty of clearance for the thread to pass through but that the retaining finger still keeps the bobbin basket in place. As a final suggestion, now that everything is "new" you may need to loosen up both your top and bobbin tension a lot more than from what you were used to. Whenever I have thread breaks, my first "fix" is always to try a different cone of thread, and then loosen up the top until the breaking stops. This invariably leads to a messy back, so I then loosen the bobbin tension (start with a 1/4 turn) and begin tightening the top tension until the stitch is balanced. You might need to take even more pressure off the bobbin thread and loosen it more. Hope you can get the Masterpiece to work for you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 That all make sense. My timing used to drift a lot, it's one of the reasons I wanted to replace the hook. My hook may well be a fraction late, the new assembly seems really tight and the needle scrapes on the hook as it comes up, to avoid that I think I made the hook a little later. I'll try tweaking it and see if I can get it to play nicely. The hook retaining finger was my first thought but I think it's about as loose as I can get it. It is an obvious potential thread grabber. Hmm, now I don't think I checked there for a rough spot either. I'll look at that while I am there. Thanks a lot guys, the advice and support is very much appreciated. Now any idea how to get the UK tax website to work for me Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well I've got my timing set as early as I can. If the hook got to the needle any sooner the needle can't clear the rest of the hook mechanism as it goes up. It is better. I can now stitch for about 3" before the thread breaks. I've got the bobbing tension to almost none, and very little on the top. The stitches look terrible. As soon as I tighten the top thread ( and not enough to make a nice stitch) the thread breaks. Given I can't get the timing any earlier, do I now try making it later? Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattyJo Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Ferret, I don't have any suggestions, but thank you for posting this blow by blow. It's now in my favorites for future reference. All the good help here! You ladies are all amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Ferret, I'd still shoot for the hook to pass in the lower half of the scarf on the needle for timing. I don't recall what size needle you are using at this point (I know you've tried three different ones, but I'd go with a 4.0 if you aren't already, to reduce the "whiplash" and flex that can cause the thread to break as the needle changes directions. Here's another thought: try using only one hole on the three-hole thread guide just above the tension disks. And if you have a vertical spool holder, put the spool there instead of the rear of the machine to reduce the distance the thread has to travel. Have you tried treating the spool with liquid silicone (Sewer's Aid is one brand)? Lubricating the thread can help reduce breakage. We haven't discussed what thread you're using in the bobbin, though you've adjusted it. My bobbin tension for cotton thread is nonexistent for some; the bobbin would zing to the floor if I did the drop test. My bobbin case has to be THAT loose so that the top thread doesn't break. Don't be afraid to back the bobbin case off a whole lot more until the top thread is no longer breaking. Also consider what the thread in the bobbin is; are you also using Masterpiece there, or a prewound/polyester (which will usually win the tug of war if the bobbin tension's too tight)? Try really loosening the bobbin thread tension, then start tightening the top up and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi Dawn, I now have it running with selected spools of masterpiece. Obviously not the ones I would like but it's progress. it's barely to the low side of the scarf. There seems to be less clearance after the hook on this assembly so it's as low as I can get without trapping the needle later in the cycle. The needle is the middle weight of the three I use. I can't see a number like a 4.0 it's a 16 if that means anything to you? Yup thread is on the vertical spool holder. I was actually wondering if it was worth trying it on the back. I haven't tried silicone, there seems to be a lot of debate about whether it's good for the machine or not. I can see it might build up on tension disks, but they can be cleaned. I take it you use it and haven't noticed any ill effects. I've tried 1 2 and 3 holes on the guide next to the tension. Doesn't seem to make any difference. The bobbin is masterpiece too, and it sounds like my tension is much the same as yours. Pretty much none. I am hoping I just have a few cones of twitchy thread. I've got two with care definately trouble, they sew for about an inch. Two that are good, they aren't breaking at all, and one more that works fine till it breaks and then keeps breaking. I swapped to a diiferent colour, then back (without changing settings) and the same thing, works till it doesn't. I've put the worst cones in the freezer a little damp and will try those again tomorrow, it's worked well in the past so I figure it is worth a go. I guess the next step is to try the newest thread that arrived yesterday and see how that behaves. Oh I guess I should mention the top thread is breaking even though there are loops underneath. Thanks again for your help Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veg-girl Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi Ferret, just a thought, have you tried So Fine? I used it for 4 days in Krefeld on the Liberty and had no problems. It is a 50 weight 3ply poly but seems to be about the same thickness and being poly you get less fluff off it. It isn't shiny. and has a good range of colours. I think I will try it for some heirloom style wholecloth quilts (not that my quilting is quite up to heirloom standards yet! PPP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi Ferret, Well, progress is progress, even if it isn't as fast or in the direction we'd like! A 4.0 needle is equivalent to an 18, so you're currently using a 3.5 (16). If you're using needles that are stamped with a "16" then I wonder if they are Singer needles or are perhaps something else, such as Groz-Beckert. The Singers we sell with the machine will only say "3.5" or "4.0". If your needles are a different brand, it's possible that the scarf is just different enough in length (or the length of the needle) to cause trouble. I've used the silicone without any trouble. Its main job would be to hydrate/lubricate the thread to make it less brittle. I also checked the Superior Threads website for any hints, and their recommendation for needle size is different from mine (they recommend a 3.0) but if it works, I don't care who's right! The site also said "go slow". Maybe your hydration will help, too, along with the new thread that has arrived. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yes I use Groz-Beckert needles. They have worked better for me than other brands. Dunno why, I just accept it as the way things are. I'll give silicone a go on the troublesome cones if they don't come around to my way of thinking I think the machine is pretty happy now. The cones that work work, those that don't don't. It's almost as though the parts needed to bed in a bit. I am convinced enough that I am reloading the show quilt..... Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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