Ferret Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ah actually the manual was another thing several people were having problems with. It requires a computer. One lady didn't have one at all and another didn't understand how to access the information even though she did have a computer. I know it costs more, both in terms of production and shipping, but I think we still need paper manuals. Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy2018 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Dear Ferret: Well, got home from work tonight, what a great read this has been. I think your chat has achieved quite a lot. Especially hearing from Jim... I hope everyone, even in the US, will pull together and try to make it a priority that every owner has the opportunity to have a smoothly running machine, not a doorstop. That said, it is also important that the owner take steps to make problems known and operate their machines in a positive manner. As an aside, when I went to bed last night, and I was the only one to post here, I was thinking, wow, how really strange... I should have known that today I would find many of you had posted really helpful and heartfelt replies. Says a lot, Pat :D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seakitten Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I second that bit about the manual. I must have been one of the last to get the paper manual, & believe me I refer to it ALL the time. If I had to leave my studio & hook up to the internet each time, I would NOT be a happy camper. Jim, I hope you're still listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Originally posted by smorris .......If I came to service your machine, do you think the taxman would consider it a valid business trip:P sue in australia Absolutely! You could write "part" of your trip off, at least! Do it! :cool: Same goes for the "way way waaaay up north country"....if you wanted to squeeze in another place to visit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seakitten Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sue -- Shana's so right; if you went to Alaska you'd probably have to change planes in Honolulu anyway, so why not make it a twofer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veg-girl Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I have a paper manual ( my machine is nearly 2 years old -eeek!) but presumably the computerised manual could be printed up, large though it is. I should also mention that APQS sent me the tool kit (via another machine being shipped to a nearby customer) as here in the UK we can no longer get the imperial measurement spanners needed. There were 2 main reasons for buying APQS for me . One was this forum and the other was the presence of a rep in the UK. At the time no other company had UK representation. As it happened I went to Claudias for training and spare bits like bobbins as nothing was available over here,and that is something that will be good to have in the UK in future. Linzi will have to erect a whole village of Yurts to accomodate us all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hey you could both come, i'm sure we'll work out how it can be a tax expense. What if you come over in December when Claudia is teaching? Sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanne.Hughes Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hello Sue, Originally posted by smorris Among the countries mentioned in this thread is Australia. I'd just like to clarify that when a machine is sold in Australia, every customer is offered FREE set-up and training onsite. Steve and I feel that it is important to provide this service to our customers as soon as they receive their machines so that they are reassured that everything is working as it should be. When we visit we go through basic maintenance and quilting techniques. Its a lot to learn in one day so we are available 7 days per week by email or phone and of course there is always support available from APQS and this great forum. I'm sure we would all like to have a factory trained dealer on our doorstep, but logistics and cost of training and retaining such a person make this impossible. I'd say for anyone in any country, who has technical issues with their machine, ring your dealer and make a telephone appointment for the dealer to be on the phone when you are fixing your machine, and let them talk you through what to do. It is the best feeling to fix your machine yourself and it saves on down time. Whats the worst that can happen if you try to fix it yourself, you'll have to call in a sewing machine repair person! Firstly, I hope I didn't cause you to take offense at this post:(, it is not directed at you and your customer set up was great and greatly appreciated!! You are a lovely person and always very helpful. I do not have any problems in recommending either you or APQS. And even with all my problems, I love y machine and wouldn't trade it for anything else! I do not know how many machines are over here in OZ, but I would presume that there are enough machines around the nation to warrant someone who is technically trained to fix the machines. Or we should look at getting someone out on a two or three yearly basis from the US. I do not think it should be an idea that is just discarded as too hard or too expensive without some thought or considered and thoughtful discussion first. Maybe this discussion can be held in a forum for Aussie APQS owners only, to see what expectations, wants or needs there are actually. I travelled to the States to spend time in Carroll so I could learn about my machine because otherwise it would be on sale now. If this kind of business is not something that you and your husband want to take up, I would understand perfectly, and no one expects you to, but it still doesn't mean it could not be viable for someone else. (Or we get someone on a regular basis to do it for us ie, someone from the US) Yes our machines are a top quality product, however, there are enough of us who do not feel the expertise or have the technical "guts" (backbone or Moxie) to take a screwdriver to a machine that was a huge investment to start with. I do not service my own car either!! I have very strict limits as to how far I am allowed to go with my srew driver, because, just sometimes, the end result can be very ugly and unfortunate! Do these machines need to have someone to look at them every year? No! But once again, without discussion how will we find out what APQS owners would like as far as machine maintenance and its availability over here in OZ? Every country will have a different set of problems, whether language or the tyranny of distance, so I think every country will have a different solution as well. The solutions will not be reached effectively if there is no discussions in the first place. Look at all the positives that are occuring in the UK because Ferrett brought her problem to our and APQS' attention. Go Ferett!! I think the fact that we can speak out and get considered and positive reactions from management shows that we have choosen the right company to deal with in the first place and will lead to happier, even us technicaly challenged, customers in the end. Rgards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorris Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hi Susanne and everyone Thank you for your lovely comments about our service it is so nice and appreciated when people take the trouble to tell us. Please don't feel that you've offended me thats not the case. I read through all the comments on this thread, not taking any notice of who wrote them and realised that no-one had mentioned how set-up and service in Australia differs from the PAST service in the UK. There were a couple of mentions of how overseas countries miss out on some of the services that USA owners have available. I thought this was an appropriate time to share how we do things over here. The main purpose of my post was to draw attention to how APQS' Research & Development technicians continue to strive to develop a machine that needs very little maintenance and also one that, when it needs parts to be replaced, can mostly be done with either no tools at all, (plug and play), or with a screwdriver or spanner. We do have a very large share of the longarm market in Australia but the number of service calls I receive is very small in comparison. Most owners do the daily/ weekly/ monthly maintenance themselves with the help of the manual, but a few, feel more comfortable and reassured calling in a service person just ocassionally and I can understant that. Its nice to get the OK from someone trained to do that. I have a list of reputable sewing machine repairmen in all states of Australia that I can recommend and one was trained at Pfaff in Germany and he travels around Australia regularly, or you can freight your machine to me. I am an APQS factory trained service technician, having visited the factory specifically for comprehensive training on four ocassions over the last 10 years. This training has lasted anywhere from 2 days to 5 days on each visit, so you can imagine I have covered more than the normal maintenance tasks and so have the skills to resolve most issues quickly. However, sometimes I might need to call the factory for help with rarely seen problems. Any competent industrial sewing machine repair person, or even a good domestic sewing machine repair person could do what i do because our machines are a simple variation of an inducstrial sewing machine. Some owners have their serviceman call me when they are about to start a service. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have Mark or Amy visit for a few weeks, in fact it is something that is being considered. The main stumbling block is their time away from the factory. So, Aussie owners, if you would like to have your machine serviced by Mark or Amy, let me know, send me an email (smorris@comcen.com.au) and we can work out whether this is viable, ie. time, cost, freight etc. Once I have numbers, I can talk to Management. By the way, I will be holding maintenance classes here during Claudia's visit and I hope to empower and excite everyone about longarm machine maintenance! Your machines will love you for it. Best wishes sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 OK, I am going to as what might be seen as a rude question (I guess we can judge by the answers or lack thereof). I have a hunch that reps need to do the job for love, ie. it isn;t a job that will actually earn them money. My logic on this comes from my time at my local patchwork shop. They get a percentage of every sale (a smaller percentage than you might think) they are then responsible for delivering the machine, providing training, providing front line support for the life of that machine. That doesn't sound too bad until you start looking at the hours involved. I would say most machines have eaten the commission within 6 months. Top of the line machines do it faster. If you thought the shop owner should be compensated in anyway for making the sale it would be even quicker. So she sells machines as a way to help her customers, it doesn't make money. I am looking at the service Sue in Australia is providing and it is amazing, however I am concerned it isn't profitable for her to do it and therefore relies on her loving both the product and her customers. Which on one hand is great, but on the other probably isn't sustainable. If nothing else finding these amazing people to take on the task if going to be hard. So this one is to the reps? Is this a labour of love? Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerstin Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ferret, I'm not a rep but my spontaneous thougt was, isn't everything concerning (art-)quilting, craftwork or arts a labour of love? We all know that we won't become rich with our business (only a very few lucky exceptions). But we love it!! And I think, the reps won't do it if they don't like it, they are free in their decision for it. Please don't misunderstand me. I really would be happy if the labour of the reps would be more appreciated and better payed! I thank you for this thread. It's really a serious and important topic! And I think there a many possibilities and ressources in this forum. It depends on how much time and energy everybody is able to put in. For example I like the ideas of Birgit and Kath to organize lokal meetings. I'm a newbie and therefore a little cautious with my comments (in addition to my uncertainty wether I choose the right words in English ) but I hope you understand what I mean. Best wishes from Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hi Kerstin, I follow your line of thinking, but if I may I'd like to be a little provocative. I think you're uncovered a valuable point about what we do. So let's take the idea that quilting is a labour of love, it's not really a job. That view is pretty widely held so it shouldn't take much of a leap of faith to believe it. If that is the case are we charging too much for our services? Should we be making money from our customers? What about our suppliers? Thread, wadding, fabric? Should we be pushing back at them to reduce their profits in line with this being a passion not a business? I've got my flame proof knickers here, so do your worst. As I said this was intended to be provocative, but I am interested in where we see the line. Where does a passion become a business? Personally I am in business, I expect my books to show a profit and as such I have to consider how much I give away. On the other hand I know I offer bigger charity discounts then many longarm quilters, because that is more important than making money. I will leave you to get the flame throwers out while I go and post some books. Yes Sandra, yours is one of them Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy G Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Originally posted by Ferret Ah actually the manual was another thing several people were having problems with. It requires a computer. One lady didn't have one at all and another didn't understand how to access the information even though she did have a computer. I know it costs more, both in terms of production and shipping, but I think we still need paper manuals. Ferret I agree Ferret, The first thing I have done this morning is to print off Section 2 of the Lenni manual, Part 1 already came printed. It is much easier to read than than a computer screen. Plus with a manual you can always scribble in the odd note or three. If I'd had this manual last night it probably wouldn't have took me 3 hours to load the quilt or then again!!!!!!!! Tracy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerstin Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ferret, your great I like your little provokations and discussions like this I think we arrive a general and philosopical topic or better a question of social systems. We have to earn some money for living and if we do good work, we can demand a charge. (I hear you asking what is a fair and reasonable charge --- I don't know :cool: ). In our situation nowadays you know it would be an illusion to think one can live without making money - except you have won the lottery ... What would be the alternative? A revolution ? Now I'm provoking .... but I hope you don't need your flame proof knickers LOL Don't you think there can be jobs which are both, labour of love and real jobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltermidwife Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hi Ferret Thank you for starting this interesting thread and raising some very pertinent questions. I visited your gallery at FOQ and greatly enjoyed seeing some old and new work. You were surrounded with people so I didn't get to speak to you on this occasion but no doubt will at another or a group meeting. I would echo most of what has been said before (not wanting to repeat) and welcome Jim's response. What I would like to emphasise is that a Company, IMHO, is only as good as it's Customer Service. Fortunately, I have not had need of any major service issues and those that I have experienced have been ably dealt with by Amy and Mark. Also the machine course run at MQS (Amy's maiden voyage - not the stitching finger one-sorry Amy) was invaluable. However I experienced excruciatingly poor customer service when I purchased my machine which took an agonising 6 months to get to me and only as a result of finally dealing only with Jim (posted in this thread). That understandably left a nasty taste in my mouth. Sales appeared to be the priority over service. I am now in the process of considering upgrading my machine and the damage done by that experience is a factor. Linzi, I think will be/is a welcome breath of fresh air and I think will be good for the company on all fronts providing she gets the necessary support and follow thru from APQS. I look forward to a new chapter in APQS dealings with it's overseas customer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltermidwife Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Dear All I'd be happy to host a service/maintenance session at my house. I have a fair sized dedicated studio space plus a couple of rooms if people needed to stay over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewlinzi Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thank you for your support, Chris! I think this will be a job for Ferret's flame proof pants, my big red boots and Tracy's Wonder Woman t-shirt... I'll do my best!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birgitquilts Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 After the initial motivation for this thread seems to have found the open ears of the right people (thank you, Jim, for having reacted openly here on the forum), I really like the turn this discussion has taken. Ferret, I think your "provocation" could turn out to be a very fruitful thing. First of all, I'm feeling not provoked - not at all! But then, I'm not a rep, "just" a quilter... and that's the point of view, I'm writing this from. In the way I see what we do, there is no contradiction between "labor of love" and "business", in fact they are like Siamese twins. Those of us who offer our quilting service to piecers are self-employed business people executing a profession as do lawyers, doctors and other entrepreneurs. Any person taking on the challenge of self-employment and running their own business needs to be aware from the very beginning (or even before that) that a great deal of enthusiasm and effort is needed to succeed. Without a great big chunk of love and passion for what a given business is all about, this cannot be achieved. Apart from this, all of us offering longarm quilting services have made a huge up-front investment by purchasing our machines. We also need to stock up on studio equipment, storage, thread, batting, spare parts and a lot of other things before the first dollar, pound, euro etc. is earned. Again, this is in no way different from any other professional running her or his own business. When setting our rates, we need to consider our expenses, the time needed for certain quilting tasks and what we want to earn! Figuring out the expenses and the time involved is not too difficult to do, the vital aspect is that of defining our goals regarding our desired income! The risk of underestimating the value of our own work is what needs to be eliminated. This thread has started out due to some unfulfilled expectations regarding customer service. I think the fact that it seemed to be pretty easy to pin down the details of what was missed, was due to the fact that those complaining are business owners themselves who know just how crucial customer service is and what THEY do to please THEIR customers. Returning to the aspect of "labor of love" in this, in my opinion it is absolutely vital that I apply my labor of love to the actual creative process of quilting (considering a customer's wishes, recognizing the responsibility of trying to enhance the customer's top to or beyond his/her expectations, doing the best I can). But at the same time, I try to always keep a clear business-oriented mind dealing with the financial, i.e. business, part of the equation. My goal is that my customers are satisfied with, even love my work - and pay for it as agreed upon beforehand. Once they accept the estimate by signing the sheet, we have a deal. Whether or not my customers like me personally, that is nothing I care about too much. Having said all this in my lengthy way of doing so (sorry!), I think my answer to Ferret's initial question is the following: While the creative process of quilting is a labor of love, running the quilting business is the JOB! In one word - PROFESSIONAL! The above is just my attitude and may not suit anybody else's situation. I'd love to see others' reactions, too. Take care, Birgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerstin Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Chris, your post is exactly what I hoped for. We can do so much but it depends on us, on our effort. If we are just waiting that sometimes somehow something will happen ... we can wait until we're old and there will probably happen nothing Linzi and Crhis, I wish you very much success and fun for your activity in the UK (and maybe Europe??) !! Birgit, your "lengthy way of saying" describes almost exactly my opinion Thank you for that! And same like Chris I would be happy to offer my home for a meeting in Germany. My studio isn't so big but there's a lot of room for a meeting. Thank heaven we have got Claudia and their OpenHouse days with classes in Krefeld. But if there is any interest in an additional meeting to change experiences, meet each other, talking and having fun ... here's a place for that And thank you to Ferret who was setting this all in motion .... (hope we don't ever need flame throwers to start new projects ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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