Pattern purchases

[busybee]

Here is my commentary on the Subject:

When I started this blog or subject. I was not sure I would get much answers. Here is what I am upset about:

If I buy a stencil or template , I am not duplicating these by making my own stencil or template, (that would be copyright breech), but using them on quilts after I purchase the stencils or template or panto. Do you think that is right for them to sell and you purchase something that you can not use on quilts. I don't mean commercial by mess production of 1 design. Its what customers want?

Nor am I buying these and not using these. That why they sell them to make money! Now I use them on a quilt but I am the one that sews, stands there and time and electricity uses.

Now If they do not want people to use these design for the same reason. Then why are they selling them? Who else would be buying these?? Now another thing is:

How do you think they come up with the designs? Inspirations from decorations, architects, designer of wallpaper, rugs, fabric, etc, etc, etc, I know that inspiration comes from ideas from these things and others. I know that most designers do this. That is what these designs do for me. I may use in some part or way and that is unique for me and my designs on quilts. What about stippling? That is a design someone made up. Same goes for quilt piecing. I find a design that I like and will incorporate it in a quilt that I like to do. Oh, by the way, these designs have been around for centuries and what about their designs they can up with 1st?? If We did not get ideas from other designs and maybe some of our own thoughts then do you think we would have the designs we have today or what about tomorrows designs?. I think it would be limited dramatically. It does sound like its about the greed and the Ole mighty dollar. And the laws need to be improved to make it clear about this. But just think if we did not have inspirations from others where would we be NOW??? I am so glad that I started this blog or topic as it has opened my eyes to views and for others.

[Susanri]

OK here's what happens when you ask for permission to copy a pattern for charity:

I run a nonprofit and on National Family Volunteer Day 11-18-2006. I was going to have a quilt project open to the public to introduce quilting and a little history of quilting, I bought the book Underground railroad by Eleanor Burns. I thought each volunteer could learn to make one block from the book and help make one quilt that would be donated to another charity. Also I thought the book would be great for discussions.

I asked if I could photo copy each block once and they would be destroyed after the block was made. I figure passing the book around would be too hard. I was not going to purchase 20 books to make one quilt. I was not asking for money, I would not be making money and I would promote her as a premere designer if the volunteers wanted to know more about quilting. I thought she would be a good start for beginners I guess Ms. Burns only prints words about quilting but has no clue to what quilting means and how quilting bees worked.

I WAS FLAT OUT DENIED!! I was told to use the free patterns from the site. Yes I can go else where and will; but I think its awefull that you can not allow people to share your designs for one quilt and for one day for CHARITY!! no money will change hands. this was simply for the love of quilting and sharing. A chance to teach people to work together for one common goal to help others.

really really sad!!

[GERRY]

Hi from Canada: :cool:

To Susan/ToManyQuilts:

I don't know much about U.S. copy-right laws, just what I've read on this forum, But did Ms Burns get the sole rights to use the old patterns in her book ? & If the patterns in the her book were that old, shouldn't they fall under that emminant domain thing I have read about? And since you could have copied them from any old book, old news papers, or even from old patterns you got them from your great great Grand-Ma, how can they prove where you got them from? Old paterns like those in Ms Burn's book are avilable to any one with a computer, & B~T~W where did she get them from?

My point is, maybe in an effort to do the right thing, you may have asked permision to do something you already had a right to do & got a "no" from someone who was just quoting the copy-right laws to cover Ms Burn's bank account, oh & their own butt.

THE BOOK WAS HERS YES, BUT THE PATTERNS WERE NOT

Just my opinion

[Susanri]

your right about the blocks being public domain as well as the topic but I was going to use her book thats why I asked for permission, I knew the blocks themselves are not hers, so I will make the patterns using EQ and get some printouts from someone else,

but geez don't you think she would havve benefited her to let me introduce her to 20 new quilters!

afterall I paid for the book, it won't cost her a dime and she has the potential to get 20 new customers. and a worthy cause will be helped.

and yes the no came from some idiot in her office!

[JudyL]

Susan:

I seriously doubt there are any idiots in Eleanor Burns' office! As I said in an earlier post on this subject, it doesn't matter what any of us think the copyright law should be, or how we think it should be applied to our individual instances. The law is the law and while it surely isn't black and white and leaves open lots of room for confusion, bickering and lawsuits, we cannot change anything by what we "think".

I'm betting Eleanor Burns has had multiple copyright attorneys give written opinions on the subject and I think the negative comments made about any designer exercising her right to refuse to allow copying of her patterns/designs is in poor taste.

Education is the key! There are excellent articles on copyright in the current issue of Quilter's Home and American Quilter.

[Susanri]

I understand and respect copyrights thus why I asked for permission, copyrights clearly say you have the to ask permission and I did that with no caulms.

I do think turning down an educational nonprofit is idiotic you just turned down new customers, I also have every right to my negative comments not everything is pleasant to hear like no. I am very hurt by the refusal afterall my mission is in community service and in helping others. I read her bio and dedciation to the quilting arts I figured she would want to help others promote quilting afterall why should I reinvent the wheel whe I can promote one of my favorite designers.

I was trying to promote her!! and no money was invloved, I was payng for the materials, quilting, batting plus a day of my servce, I paid money for the book and wanted to share its beauty with others, but I do think it would be unreasonable to buy 15 books to make one quilt that would be donated to another charity thats why I asked permission to use it for a day of community service.

sorry if you think its in poor taste to tell my experience, but I was very offended as well as hurt I held in her in high regards as an expert and someone who is passionate about her work. What is in poor taste is turing down the use of her book for this event. It was a very negative and humilating experience for me!!

So when people say all you have to do is write to the designer for permission and you'll get a yes is bogus just be prepared for the "NO" without any real consideration. I am sure it was not her that said no but she is the queen of her empire and bears the ultimate responsibilty.

Education is the key but its educating people on the art of quilting and where it came from I think designers need to go back and thank their foremothers for sharing and passing on an incredible artform and then make sure it gets passed on so that our industry can continue to grow and flourish.

[chickenscratch]

The Fall 2006 issue of American Quilter just came in the mail and it has a wonderful article about copyright and how the law applies to quilters. It distinguishes between public domain and private patterns, what is allowed as far as changing up a pattern and not violating copyright, and how to credit the person who designed the pattern. Super information.

[MarieBrewer]

Susan, just as Ms. Burns has a right to give her opinion, which was no, you have a right to express yourself and inform others as to which people in this business are customer friendly. Frankly, I thank you for sharing your story. Now I know that the $1 I spent for her book at a thrift store will be the last dollar I spend on her products. I wrote to Linda Taylor's co. regarding copyright and she said Hari Walner (don't even know if I spelled that right because I've never shopped w/her) was the only one who said a customer has to buy a new panto pattern for each quilt. And yes, there are idiots in every business starting at the White House and trickling down to every profession including quilting.

[Susanri]

well with just a few hours spent on the Internet I have found a wealth of free stuff to use including lesson plans for all ages I will be able to print up stories and articles plus patterns to actually give out so the participants can continue learning about quilting afterwards. I'll find some pretty folders to put everything in. It will be a spectacular day of quilting.

I will give the volunteers resources to buy locally as well as a few Internet sites and I am going to try again to ask permission to use one of the many recent copyright articles so that new quilters can make informed purchases and what they can and can not do with quilts made from Designers. I think this is very important to know and respect.

Ms. Burns is still one of my favorite deisigners and I mean her no disrespect by posting my situation. Again I doubt it was her that said no, I had the respect to email her company and ask for permission to use her work for my volunteer sevice project. I could have gotten away with not asking. But that would have been disrespectful.

I knew I could have found all this stuff for free on the Inernet, but why not take the opportunity to support a designer. Isn't that what designers want? To make money.

I have written a few other designers to see if they would like to take advantage of this opportunuty we'll see but atleast I am ready for the no. as far I am concerned I am over my shock and disapointment, I guess I just never believed I would be turned away. Infact In my mind I thought I would be welcomed with open arms. LOL

But I don't want people to stop buying her things based on my experience-- in fact I will use the books I have bought as door prizes.

I will continue to support quilting and pass it on to as many people as I can, its just too wonderful of an artform not to.

[Bonnie]

In the article that was mentioned that recently ran in the American Quilter, the author was a copyright attorney, with her name and email address with permission to write should we have any questions. Now money wasn't mentioned, so I would be perpared to forfit some should I have a question, but thought it was nice to know a fellow quilter also has the knowledge in that field as well.

Now regarding Ms. Burns. I have taken several classes from several of her certified teachers. Did you know you can take a teaching class and become a Eleanor Burn's Quilt in A Day certified teacher. I didn't until I took the classes.

Most of Ms. Burn's blocks are public domain, but her method getting the block finished is her own unique way. With her having a teaching certificate plan and these teachers having taken the time to gain the privilege to teach only her method...I'm sure that is why you were told "NO". It wasn't the block that were used as much as it was the method that they are made.

I know that the "NO" wasn't expected or welcomed, but maybe this will help ease the manner in way it was giving.

[Susanri]

Yes I am over my tantrum:) and no hard feelings, The No was because I was going to have to xerox the block pages so each quilter could make a single block for the single quilt, I was going to destroy the copies after the event. I was not going to purchase 15 books for one charity quilt.

Copyright laws say you have to ask permission so I did, even though this is for an educational, nonprofit service day, and most likely this event will be held at either a Library or public school. So in reality I may not had to have asked, under the fair use portion. But I wanted to show respect and do the right thing, plus to be honest I thought maybe she would have contributed a quilty things to the day as well, that happens.

I would have taken a class to become "certified" if thats what it took, after all she's a great designer. But I was more interested in the topic of the Underground railroad which does not belong to her. Her book just would have made it easy for me. but as they say when one door closes better doors open up!

The good news I asked several designers to help, Judy Rothemal wrote to me herself and I can use her books. I'll use that, along with the stuff I found on the Internet, I will order an autographed copy of the her book as a door prize! How fun will that be. I only posted what happened here so that quilters can be aware of the possibilty of a no, even to give the quilt to charity or even showing it-- I did not post to bash Ms. Burns for not sharing.

More importantly is the progress I made in planning my event, thankfully

its not till, November and its going to be a marvelous one! My lunch is going to be served Hobo Style in a bright red kerchief! We will sit around discussing the Civil War and the role of quilting, quilting bees, the theory of the Underground rairoad, and how quilting played a role in fundraising. I also have taken my orphan blocks and will make bags to put all their goodies in, that are being donated.

I am really excited about the day! I am thinking of getting a period outfit as well! We have some Civil War Groups around here and maybe one can come and give a speech and show some antiques. The day will be a great service day!! And the hopefully some new quilters will be born to help pass on this art!

[Darlene Epp]

Bonnie, would you mind giving me the name of the copyright attorney and her contact info? I haven't seen the American Quilter magazine in Canada, and I REALLY need some information like this as soon as possible.

Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention.

[Susanri]

I think you can find her info on mccallsquilting.com do a search for copyright

[JudyL]

The current article is in American Quilter and the web page is http://www.americanquilter.com. If you are a member of AQS, you can view the article on the web page. The attorney's name is Janet Jo Smith and her web page listed in the article is http://www.dyesmithy.com/ There is a "contact Janet Jo" button at the top of the page. Good luck!

[quiltingnanny]

NanaBlue Quilts, what did you use to make the Baptist Fans on the quilt in your album ? It's beautifully lined up. I have been frustrated and thrownig stuff all day. Have completed 2 rows which will have to be frogged .UGGGGG

If anyone has suggestions on Qult-Ez , I'm open. Talked with Joe, wonderful person, it's got to be something I'm doing wrong. Help!!!

[Susanri]

Thank youI used the quilt ez templates and I will tell you my secret;-) its so simple!!

after you do the first row --- repeat it about an inch out. including the bottom lines. so I don't have exactly line up the rows. I just keep repeating the first row and the bottom lines and back track down the slopes on the bottom of template.

I can do a fullsize quilt in under three hours!! its awesome and looks great! feel free to call me anytime my cell is on my little webpage www.nanabluequilts.com

[quiltingnanny]

Susan, that's the way I've done them. I have double rows of stitching and don't know how to stop that from happening.[When I go over the prvious line of stiching] I've watched that video over and over. I hadn't been leaving the ends open like on video, but tried that. Bad decision !! The fans are about 1/2 inch apart.

[Susanri]

don't try to line up the next row, go out an inch farther then start over as if it were your first row, you won't be going over any rows again,

this is not on the video I came up with it.

call me 401-699-9231 maybe I can describe it better on the phone

[Darlene Epp]

Thanks for the information Judy. Bonnie just called me, long distance from New York no less!

Thank you BOTH!

[Judi]

Susan - Good Luck with your event in Nov. - sounds like it will be a blast!

You have everything planned so well! Soon I will be basting a civil war

quilt that a friend is working on. She wants to hand quilt it afterwards.

Darlene - I sure hope everything works out for you and your problem too.

The nerve of some people! I have not personally ordered your books yet,

but I hear they are very good. I will check them out on your website. Please

let us know what happens with this......

[Susanri]

Thanks Judy,

My plans and some of the free resources for that day will be on my nonprofit website in Novemeber incase anyone else is planning to do a quilt day. I'll post it when its ready.

susan

[diane Bevans]

So let me try and understand some of this. If I see a quilt pattern that I like, I write it myself and that makes it mine, but if I buy one and use it for profit that is copywriting anothers work?. Because I have seen a dozen different patterns for the wedding ring quilt, so I guess I am wondering how that is an original idea. And most all of the quilts I have seen use a block that probably could be found in anothers quilt. There are tons of free Block sites out there, so is the color, the placement of these blocks that make them an origianl. I believe even EQ is using already established blocks.

And as for pantos why are they being created to sell to other longarmers if not too use on someone quilts., I am sorry I am just failing to understand how all of this works. I guess the best thing is to contact the lawyers and pay the fees, because I think all of this could be argued in courts that someone seen something, even toliet paper designs and turned it into a quilt design.

I