narrowing it down

[decrtl]

Back again for more words of wisdom...Several weeks ago I saw a Nolting 24 Pro, I have since seen a Statler Stitcher, a Viking and of late, a Babylock Crown Jewel 18-8 with Quilt Motion installed on it. I think I have narrowed it down but still not 100% sure. The Crown Jewel is a 1 year old demo in a sewing machine store. It has the Quilt Motion add-on, 10' aluminum table, 3year bumper to bumper for $9,999.00. My question is what do you think and since Babylock has not been making longarms for as long as Nolting or Gammill, is it a wise choice if it goes haywire?

[Neher-in-law5]

Just going on price listed here, what does the Crown Jewel have that one of the APQS machines don't have? I think for about the same price you can get one with an 8 yr warrenty and maybe a bit more throat space. I don't know for sure.

Have you checked the sale threads here? Someone just listed a Lenni that has been blissed for about that price also. Where are you located?

[Busy Quilting]

I would hope you ar looking at and "industrial " machine for that price and not just a domestic machine with only a 9 or 12" throat.

All the established longarm brands now have a "mid-arm" machine that has as 18"+ throat space for around the same price as you are saying.

Look closely you may even find a second hand machine with a larger throat for the same rpice.

Lyn

[Guest Linda S]

That's a fairly small machine for the dollars, plus it's used. APQS has used machines that would give you a real longarm for a similar price. Also - have you tried the Innova? They are reasonably priced and I think would give you more bang for your buck than the Baby Lock. Baby Lock makes great sewing machines, but they are, after all, sewing machines.

[quiltmonkey]

Originally posted by decrtl

.....The Crown Jewel is a 1 year old demo in a sewing machine store. It has the Quilt Motion add-on, 10' aluminum table, 3year bumper to bumper for $9,999.00. My question is what do you think and since Babylock has not been making longarms for as long as Nolting or Gammill, is it a wise choice if it goes haywire?

Well, IMHO, you can get a Brand New APQS Lenni with a Stitch regulator and an 8 year bumper to bumper warranty for $9,900. One thing you have to keep in the forefront is after sales service and customer support. The big question is,,, will you get that with the Crown Jewel? Be assured you will get after sales service and customer support with APQS.

Click the link below for all the features included. Everyone I know that has Lenni loves it. Quality made machines made by APQS in Iowa.

http://www.apqs.com/machines_lenni.php

[quiltmonkey]

And if your interested in Bliss, Irene is selling her practically brand new Lenni with Bliss asking $8,900

http://www.apqs.com/quiltboard/viewthread.php?tid=27638

[Busy Quilting]

I have just read the brochure for the Baby Lock. The machine is 18 pounds heavier than the APQS Lenni, and only stitches slightly faster than my domestic Janome machine. So really it is not an industrial machine.

I feel you should investigate your options a bit more.

Lyn

[Quilting Heidi]

I too think you would be way better off going with an APQS industrial machine vs a domestic. You'll outgrow the space so quickly and for that price you can get a really nice machine. The Lenni is a perfect machine and like somebody else says Irene is selling her Lenni with the new Bliss system for a really great price!

[Gator]

WOW, that's expensive for a domestic sewing machine (DSM) :o. The Babylock is not an industrial machine. I love my 3 Brother machines but I wouldn't get a long arm from them and they make Babylock. Just like everyone else said, you can get a Lenni for that price or cheaper when on special. The APQS machines are "industrial", with industrial technicians. The machines rarely go back to the factory for problems, we just send them back around every 5 years for a spa treatment. DSM's have to go to the "retail shop" at least once a year for cleaning, etc. The Babylock "frame" is no where near the quality and strength of the APQS tables.

You can get a larger table also (no extra cost). Remember the people selling the machines can make it look so easy and great. Test those machines, 10,000 is a lot of money, don't sell yourself short. If you want to use your long arm for a business or lots of quilts, get an industrial machine. We all love our APQS machines and this 24/7 help desk (forum), but Nolting, Gammill, Innovis, Ken Quilts are ok to.

[Gator]

I'm sorry to go on and on. I just noticed that you said the

Babylock was a "demo"!!! Industrial demos can take the continued use but at $10,000 for a machine that has "how many hours or stitches" on it already? Doesn't sound like a bargain. Did they travel with this demo? Was it handled with tender loving care? I just keep seeing a "warning light" come on.

[jimerickson]

I guess that your question is should I buy this Babylock. If you're serious about longarm quilting: NO. If you're a hobbyist who just wants to play with a longarm and do an occasional quilt for yourself-maybe. Still if you really get into longarm quilting you'll simply want a better machine in the future. I've been there-done that, so why not start with a first line machine to begin with. There are lots of great used APQS's, Gammill's, Noltings, A-1's or Kenquilts out there in your price range. These machines don't wear out, and the owner support is great. I'm not sure you can say that about the Babylock. All of these machines can be upgraded to computer drive if desired. I've owned 4 machines, the 2 I have now are an APQS and a Gammill both of which I've had upgraded with Intellistitch stitch regulators. I should have saved my money on the others! They simply weren't a good enough platform to begin with. Regards. Jim

[dnice]

Sent you a U2U message.

[IBQLTN2]

My, idea on this babylock is why would you spend 9990.00 for a used domestic midarm when you can get an industrial Brand new Lenni for 99.00 less with an 8 year warranty. I have a used Lenni which I purchases almost 3 years ago and have had zero problems and done many, many quilts. I do not quilt for customers, but would have no problem doing that if I wanted to. I also looked into other mid arm systems from various machine manufacturers and am so happy that I ended up with an industrial workhorse of a machine!! You simply can not go wrong with an APQS machine.

[nanbrug]

Everyone on the forum has better insight than me but here's my opinion. I almost made a very expensive mistake when looking into longarm's. I went to a fabric store and was looking into a quilting machine and this cheap piece of grap was 15,000.00 and was not industrial. Next day when I went to look at it again the frame had broke in the store. My opinion go with APQS it's worth the money. I have a Millie with Bliss and it is awesome and worth the money. The warranty alone is worth it.

[JustSewSimple]

Go industrial! Of course, I recommend APQS because I am convinced they are the very best but you have to decide for yourself. Good luck to you.

[RitaR]

I started quilting by machine with my Viking #1. then switched to the Viking 1+, next was a HQ frame, which is all they had at first, no machines... Used the 1+ with it for several years.. Then several of us switched to the DMQS, which was an old rotary machine, cut thru in the middle and stretched out to 18". We had plenty of trouble with them... still, it was bulky and not fun to move around. After several years with that.. When I finally switched to a REAL quilting machine, the APQS Lenni, It was wonderful. I'll not ever go back to a stretched machine if I can help it.

I just got new tracks and Edgerider wheels that run verticle, and it is so smoothe, I now can't see how I ever put up with the old set, though it served me well.

Please, if you are serious about quilting, even if it is just quilting for yourself, don't go with a domestic. You will be fustrated with the 2-3" quilting you can do when you get to the end of the quilt. Less than that if it is queen or King. It will just be a waste of money, and a decision you will come to regret.

I only know about my APQS and couldn't be more happy with the electronics and mechanics of it. Terrific support too, not only thru APQS but the people on this forum, too.

No matter what machine you end up with, you are always welcome on this board. Many have other brands.

[witha'K'quilting]

It is my understanding that the crown jewel 18 is similar to the hq 16. Although it would be a decent machine...for that kind of money...i would seriously look into an apqs machine. Check the used machines for sale...you may surprise yourself and get a great system..larger throat area..better table..for similar money. Remember this is an apqs forum. Although we accept anyone no matter the machine they chose to drive, we all stand behind our apqs machines...and apqs behind us!

[meg]

There are 2 lennis currently for sale that i can think of - lennis are lightweight and industrial. if it were me, i would want the most for my money - and i think you'd do better with a lenni.

one in the new york area and one in paducah ky.

if you are buying a demo - you should check the used machine forum here.

the deals can't be beat!

[Bonnie H]

It is very hard to compare apples to oranges (domestic to industrial) and come out even. An industrial machine is going to stitch faster and with more power. The power of the machine's ability to drive the needle through multiple layers of fabric/seams is very important. When we test drive machines in stores and at quilt shows, usually the frame is loaded with a muslin, with no piecing or seams involved. It is very easy to drive the machines over unpieced fabric. Now throw on a quilt like a one block wonder where you have many, many layers of fabric and seams coming together in a point. When you drive an industrial machine over these points, it is like putting a hot knife through butter. With a nonindustrial machine, it's a different story, kinda like running over a rock with the machine. You may experience needle breaks, thread breaks, or your seams may shift to one side as you try to stitch through them. Or you may find yourself avoiding those seams altogether. I'm speaking from experience.

Also, the frames of the industrial machines are much sturdier than those for the home sewing machines. The industrial frames usually have more features such as hydraulic lifts, casters, fabric advance features, etc.

I for one wish I had put all the money I've thrown out the window in my first two purchases, into my last purchase of a longarm. I have owned a machine made by a sewing machine company and have owned a handcrafted frame. While they worked fine for me, I really do love the industrial set-up MUCH more. I only quilt for myself, but if I ever wanted to quilt for others, my warranty would not be voided by doing so.

I have never tried an APQS machine but there are some big quilter's names that drive them. And look at all the gals/gents here that love them. I wish I had tried all the machines before I bought, though I am happy with what I did buy.

If I were you, I would hold onto my money and test drive every machine you can. Find out about the frames. Can you sit at them AND stand at them? How sturdy are they? What extra features can you add later to the frame and machine? How well does the machine sew through bulky seams? Can you use items like a Circle Lord on the frame? Does the machine have a stitch regulator? What is the quality of the stitch regulator and what is the quality of the stitching? Can I do ruler work? How easy is it to advance the quilt? How does the resale value on the machine and frame hold up?

Since a lot of people are buying sewing machine brands to start, you can often find they are moving up to the industrial machines and are selling off their machines at a considerable loss, or are not able to sell them at all. Most of the industrial longarms, however, maintain a fairly good resale value.

There are so many questions to think of, but do be sure to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges and get the best quality machine and frame you can with the features that are important to you. Or in a couple of years you will be saving and searching for a different machine!

Good luck in your decision

Bonnie in Tulare

Nolting 24 Pro

who secretly wants to try an APQS!

[KDquilter]

I agree with everyone above and would like to point out that an APQS machine is excellent and their customer service is hands down the best out there. Warranty for 8 years . . . what more do you need to know.

You need to test drive the APQS vs the babylock to make sure it is everything you are looking for. I personally think you would be very happy with the APQS.

(former owner of gammill now very happy owners of an APQS)

[sharni]

Look at the special deals APQS just announced this week on machines from the Paducah show. $1,100 off the regular price and a better table than the one on the regular machine.

They have full 8 year warranty and a bunch of extras with them. I just arranged financing through Red Thread for a Lenni with Bliss.

APQS is a long standing company with a good tradition of service and standing behind a product that works. Just listen to all of the satisfied users here on the boards !! Look on their list of dealers to see how close one is to you. That will be a big factor in getting help and instruction with your machine. I found one that is 100 miles away but is only 6 blocks from my sister in law whom we visit several times a year.

I looked at the Baby Lock that you mentioned but did not like the fact that it had been in production for only one year,not enough time in my mind to work out any bugs. Also the company is mainly a sewing machine company, do they really know what longarm quilters need and want. The convenience of local convenient service and support was not available. Those three reasons were key in my decision to go with APQS.

I test drove the APQS and Baby Lock... The APQS was like skating on glass by comparison !!! I felt a slight irregular resistance on the Baby Lock that affected the symmetry of lines, diagonals, hearts and circles.

Just my opinion and experience but I had to speak up.

[suzanp]

Originally posted by decrtl

Back again for more words of wisdom...Several weeks ago I saw a Nolting 24 Pro, I have since seen a Statler Stitcher, a Viking and of late, a Babylock Crown Jewel 18-8 with Quilt Motion installed on it. I think I have narrowed it down but still not 100% sure. The Crown Jewel is a 1 year old demo in a sewing machine store. It has the Quilt Motion add-on, 10' aluminum table, 3year bumper to bumper for $9,999.00. My question is what do you think and since Babylock has not been making longarms for as long as Nolting or Gammill, is it a wise choice if it goes haywire?

being on an APQS forum and not mentioning an APQS machine in the list Well.........................

I waited 10 years to get my machine, "Gert the Flirt" is a little older but you would never tell that she has 6 years under her belt. The greatest machine ever!!!

[o2b Quilting]

Where are you located? There are several of us who would love to "show off" and let you test drive our machines...WE ARE THAT PROUD OF THEM!! I have two different models, the Freedom and the Millenium and one has the Bliss on it and the other is on a regular/standard table so you could try both. Just let it be known where (in the general area) you are located and I am sure someone will jump in here and invite you to test drive and visit with you about their personal experience with the machine and the company.

Good luck with your decision making process.

[The Crafty Unicorn]

I would suggest you carefully read through ALL of the instruction manual for the Babylock. A friend just got what she thought was a great deal on a Viking machine (Mega quilter I think) She had some questions about loading quilts and came to see my APQS. We went through her manual and it actually said to quilt half of the quilt, pin baste and turn the quilt around to do the rest because of the bulk and weight of a full size quilt!

Another big question is does the Babylock have a presser foot or a hopping foot?

[Sparkle]

Decrti,

I just wanted to let you know The Babylock Crown Jewel has not been manufactured very long, and both of the Babylock Mid arm machines are made by HandiQuilter (who has been around for a long, long time) ---made to Babylock's specifications, both Babylock system but have only been out on the market for about 4 yrs.

The Crown Jewel has an 18" arm and I frequently play with it our local Babylock dealers just to see how it stitches and handles, and it does both very well. It is a powerful machine and the last time I was in there they were quilting on a heavy suede type fabric and batting for a purse class they were having. The frame and machine appear to be very sturdy, and I don't know about your local dealer, but ours has a Babylock Mid Arm Club and ongoing classes for this quilting system.

Just some things to think about---and remember you are posting on the APQS Forum where most of the quilters (with a few exceptions like myself)---own APQS machines. So, no doubt most members here are biased towards that brand of machine, but are very open minded.

I personally am not brand loyal, and consider my machines tools, be it sewing machine or quilting machines. Just like my blender, vacuum cleaner, power drill or microwave or any other tools that are intended to do a specific job. Buy what suits your budget, your space. Just know for yourself what you are looking for, and what you expectations are.