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Custom pricing--food for thought


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I just had a great off-forum conversation today with Jess (Butterfly) about pricing for custom quilting. She and I are in agreement that we both need to get a grip and start charging a reasonable amount for custom quilting.

My custom starts at 5 cents an inch, which seems to be an industry standard. But that 5 cents usually earns me such a small per-hour amount that I get mad at myself. For some reason, quoting $800 for a custom job (King size @ 8 cents an inch) kinda sticks in my throat!

Here are my thoughts--either I get faster at custom (which seems like an oxymoron since custom implies more elaborate and dense stitching, so how can I speed up and still be accurate?)--or else charge enough to make some money at it.

I am thinking of not quoting a price at the initial consult, but spending some time with the quilt before settling on a fee. I am also thinking of adding a "design charge" for all custom quilting. This will cover the "stand and stare" time, the thinking, the drawing of designs off the quilt, and marking of the quilt top. Depending on how soon inspiration strikes, this can take anywhere from three or four hours to a whole day. Should this original design that comes from my head be compensated for? Since it is exclusive to this quilt, I think the customer could easily be charged something extra.

Well, I guess all the speculation won't matter unless I put it into action, so I must decide if I want to keep the design charge a separate fee or bury it in the cents-per-inch by upping the quilting a half-a-cent to cover it.

Separating it out might scare the customer away, but it also gives me an artistic edge--that designing and drawing IS art and maybe shouldn't be buried in the quilting charge.

Any thoughts?

(On the last custom I did I cleared about $10 an hour and that didn't count the hours spent sketching the final design and the marking.)

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Linda, I took a class from Darlene Epp when I first got my longarm. She suggested charging a set up fee on every quilt, which I do, and which has never been questioned. I only charge $25, and I think you should charge much more than that for your design time (have you seen your quilts?!?!?:P).

I rarely quote a price when I'm given the quilt. Invariably, we discuss it, decide what to do and then it hangs in my armoire for a few weeks. When I pull it out and look again, I have a totally different idea of what I want to do and call the customer then and give them price and design options. Is that something you could incorporate? Like if you want this level of custom, its $X and for a more better (are you loving my English?) custom, you'd charge $XX??

Just some thoughts....

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I can't wait to hear everyone's input on this question. I'm lucky if I make $10 an hour on custom quilting. My last custom quilt for a customer I charged $600 for the quilting. So you all say "WOW" that's a lot of money. Yep, it is, but...that included my thread (no additional charge for it), and it took me 87 hours to do the quilting. Plus I made 2 round trips at 22 miles each to pick up and to deliver the quilt. So, 44 miles, plus my time to sit and consult with her. Of course, I had the drawings and e-mails to which included pictures of my progress, asking her questions about different designs, and updates because it took my several months to do it, as I work full time at another job. I only made $6.89 per hour, without counting the design time and driving/consulting time, oh, and not to mention the time to do my invoice and keep my records.

BTW, she loved the quilting. :)

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OK I am in the same predicament. I am brainstorming here, so hear me out...

My thoughts? There are two types of "custom" (or could be more types out there too)

1) One type of custom is the lovely quilting that doesn't take hours and hours to do. Not really "show quality" but could be.

2) Another type of custom is the lovely quilting that takes a lot of preparation, time, thinking, designing, stress, quilting, etc.... In other words over 40 hour+ invested. Maybe one that goes into a show.

So..... when you are talking with your customer I guess ask the bottom line: do you want a custom quilt that fits #1 or #2. Most would probably fall into #1. If the customer wants #2 then there are deeper negotiations and maybe a contract or agreement, prepayment, etc. To quilt something under #2 is an investment not made lightly. Serious business.

In the #1 category you could use the standard per inch rate.

In the #2 category, you would insist on the HOURLY rate! :) And what is the hourly rate, we all wonder???? Hmmm... could be $20, or $25 or $30 or $35 or more... Depends on what you think will work best for you?

Don't sell yourself short. If customer wants you to put the effort into #2 they mean business. :) And... if THEY mean business... then so do YOU!

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Thanks for all this wise input!

Dory--I think I will postpone my estimate for custom quilts until they "marinate" a while hanging in view.

Sandra--you are in the same leaky boat as Jessica and I! I think when faced with custom, we all strive to make sure the customer gets their money's worth--really more precision and density than we can estimate or feel comfortable charging for.

And Miss Shana!! You are brilliant! I will incorporate your fabulous ideas into my now-special pricing category for custom quilting. The hourly charge idea will cover the thinking/designing time as well as the stitching time. This will mean a longer consultation as we make decisions about the level of custom, but will definitely work out better for me in the end!

Thank you, thank you!!

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A yahoo chat group of Australians Longarmers is doing the same chat at the same time.

When I first started longarming I started a stop watch with every quilt I did. I still start a stop watch! I have a charge per square inch which includes my threads, sit and stare etc. If I quilt it quicker than what I feel I should earn per hour I give a discount.

My husband says I shouldn't discount.

I feel I should earn more per hour than a "check out chick" does... so charge accordingly. If I get faster as I work through a quilt.... lucky me.

I still want to earn at least $25 per hour custom or not!

I'm not going to sell myself cheap!

I give the customer a range of what the quilting will cost then ring them with the final price within that range. Sometimes (for Custom) there is no range....just a do it...Luckyily for me.

Lyn

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5 cents! Custom around here usually starts at 2.5 or 3 cents a sq inch. Now that's for simple custom. For instance Blocks 9 or 12 inches possibly ditched with a simple motif in each block ie: feather wreath and a border and possbly sashings with just one continous design or freehand overall in the borders--no background fill. On sashing on the simple custom if they are narrow I ofen just 1/4 inch them or do x's

I'm really thinking my QZ will bring down the time on these.

Applique quilts don't normally fit into the simple custom.

Then goes up from there depending on the amount and type of quilting. Similar to what Shana was suggesting.

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I'm in the same boat as all of you. I tend to make nothing for my custom work. I've gotten much quicker at it but I sitll end up giving my quilting away, according to hubby. It is hard to tell a customer that their quilt will cost 500 or more! OK so I like all the suggestions. Shana I think you are very much onto something. I think the custom that takes me the most time is the ones with the dense background fills. I have learned on a custom quilt to give a range.

Here's a thought. What do you think about coming up with some samples that has the same top quilted in 3 ways. 1 minimal custom, low range .03 - .05 psi, then medium .06 - .07 and then finally heirloom .08 - .10 or more? Maybe that would give the customer the visual they need. I'm tired of feeling overwhelmed by custom quilts on the frame that suck all my free time and also force me to book way out in advance. I only quilt part time so a big custom job could take me 2 - 3 weeks to get done.

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It is a real issue for me too. If I had some panto work to off set my income it wouldn't be as bad.

I am usually pretty good at estimating the time I will spend on a custom job and I can mostly clear 20 per hour. Once in a while though I fail. My last custom job I charged 6 cents and really should have been closer to 10. The darn stitch in the ditch just takes too much time!

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I like your thoughts on this, too, Shana. I am going to think this through more and decide if I should change my pricing structure. Right now my E2E runs from $.015 to $.03 per sq in, and my custom begins at $.03 and goes up. I didn't cap the "and up" amount, so I could charge any amount and still work witin the same structure that I have in print. But, I have to guestimate the number of hours so I can fall back into the square inch amount I want to charge. That's where I always under estimate how long it will take me.

Heidi - I have been telling customers that I need about 6 weeks for the heavy custom quilts, eg, the 87 hour quilt.

I keep track of the time it takes me to quilt each quilt, even thought I charge by the square inch. So, based on previous times, I try to guess what square inch price I will quote, based on the time I think it will take me. The 87 hour quilt was based on my assumption that it would take me 50 to 60 hours. Wrong, again.

Another weird thing, a bit off of the custom idea, but something that bugs me, is that when I meet with customers at Guild or my LQS, I bring a binder of designs which inludes an 8.5 X 14" piece of the actual panto in a clear sleeve, and pictures from CL, QZ, and R&S websites of their products that I have. I have pictures of some of the quilts finished using these designs, too. But, now here's the weird thing, with the exception of the CL feathered wreath, my customers will always choose a paper pantograph over a design board. I have used a few of them on customer quilts, but mainly use them on my own quilts and the charity quilts for Guild. Last week I was sitting with 2 guild members who were looking through my book for designs for a twin and a lap. The first lady, a new quilter, said she saw "something swirly" for her daughter's twin quilt. I suggested the CL Swirlz template and showed her the picture. She said OK; she liked it. I told her I just finished one of my own quilts using it and it was one of my favorite all-over designs. The meeting started, so I went to my seat, leaving them to continue looking through my book. At a break, they came to me and the 2nd gal asked for the Popcorn panto and the 1st one said she changed her mind. She didn't want a pattern board design, she wanted a panto, too, and picked one out. They were all $.02 an inch, so price was not the deciding factor. There must me some "stigma" about using boards, but I can't figure out what or why. I love the boards and would prefer using them over a panto any day.

Another argument I get into with customers is that if they want a panto in the center/body of the quilt, and a separate border design, and of course, SID between the body and the border, that it is still an E2E and it should be whatever the panto price is. NO! that is now custom in my printed info and starts at $.03 a square inch. I find it a PITA to stop a panto at the edge of a border - precisely. It is easier on a pattern board, but still a PITA. I'm wondering if one of the other guild quilters who has a Gammill with a computer has this price structure. I don't know if it is easy to set the computer to run and then stop at that that exact point, then move to the next row. If so, then that would explain why they think this way.

Sorry for the rant, but I've been "bugged" by a few customers lately.

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This is a very helpful thread. My custom work at this point in time falls under Shana's #1 type of custom - and I'm still not making enough money for it. I also have a hard time breaking down pricing for various levels of custom.

I have a large batch of quilts from one customer right now. We've had a consult and I've given her estimates on each of the 11 quilts. Now, as I work, I'm carefully tracking both hours and # of bobbins. So far, I've upped the price on only one quilt - though I seriously underestimated two of the quilts. I'm using this learning experience to think through what my hourly quilting wage is, what I want it to be, and what I need to charge to get it there. I feel like I've been in business long enough that I'm at least part way up the learning curve - so my customer is paying for skill and not all of my learning. This seems like a good time to do this exercise.

Linda and Jess - your work is so beautiful, you should feel comfortable setting fees so that you don't lose your proverbial shirts when you do this work. In your cases, I would collect pictures of customer quilts with various levels of custom work, figure out what you should have charged for that work (rather than what you did charge), and creating a notebook or portfolio (electronic or hardcopy) that you can show to clients. For xx psi you get this, for yy psi you get this level of quilting. Pulling together that type of portfolio is an iterative process, but I bet it would save frustration in the future.

Thanks to everyone who is contributing their thoughts to this thread. Best wishes to everyone as we set prices at that magic point where we get paid for our work but don't lose clients . . . . . .

Lynn

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I don't think custom means tons of stitching. I think it means the quilting is right for each row or block or whatever - but without the zillions of stitches I see in your quilting. I think "Show Quality" means the dense quilting I have been seeing you do, Linda! Perhaps you could have "custom" and "Show Quality." Perhaps you could have some pictures of each and allow the customer select what he/she can afford. I think a prep/set up fee is appropriate - the prep fee would be your artistic input (which, I might add is AWESOME)!

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I like the idea of having a standard custom and a show custom pricing structure.

For now, I have started only accepting so many custom quilts a month so that I have time for the pantos which is what pays my bills.

For example, my next custom opening is September. I have found that the longer you quilt for others, the more custom quilts come your way. I was getting bogged down in them and that is why I decided to spread them out to only 2-3 per month so I could do other quilts.

I also like the idea that on a show custom there is a design fee charged.

I will say that once I went with a computerized system, my custom quilting sped up considerably. I don't normally do 100% computer. Normally it is more like 40% computer, 60% freehand.

I just had a call yesterday that wanted their Queen custom. I quoted around $330 over the phone and they were shocked. However, I'm glad they were shocked over the phone and I didn't have to drive to the LQS and waste my time. I can normally tell right away if they are shopping for a quilter based on price alone. Once I know that is what they are after, I am pretty sure I won't be the quilter they want.

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Originally posted by sandradarlington

Another weird thing, a bit off of the custom idea, but something that bugs me, is that when I meet with customers at Guild or my LQS, I bring a binder of designs which inludes an 8.5 X 14" piece of the actual panto in a clear sleeve, and pictures from CL, QZ, and R&S websites of their products that I have. I have pictures of some of the quilts finished using these designs, too. But, now here's the weird thing, with the exception of the CL feathered wreath, my customers will always choose a paper pantograph over a design board. Last week I was sitting with 2 guild members who were looking through my book for designs for a twin and a lap. The first lady, a new quilter, said she saw "something swirly" for her daughter's twin quilt. I suggested the CL Swirlz template and showed her the picture. She said OK; she liked it. I told her I just finished one of my own quilts using it and it was one of my favorite all-over designs. The meeting started, so I went to my seat, leaving them to continue looking through my book. At a break, they came to me and the 2nd gal asked for the Popcorn panto and the 1st one said she changed her mind. She didn't want a pattern board design, she wanted a panto, too, and picked one out. They were all $.02 an inch, so price was not the deciding factor. There must me some "stigma" about using boards, but I can't figure out what or why. I love the boards and would prefer using them over a panto any day.

Hi Sandra! This thread is getting great ideas and input and thank you so much!

As for your problem in convincing customers to choose a pattern board--perhaps try only showing photos of stitch-outs or actual quilts using the boards. They are very static or what I call "marchy"-- the rows are much more visible on the pattern boards, except for maybe Patricia Ritter's boards. Another thought is to re-price the pantos (if you don't already separate them by density and ease of stitching) and give a small price break on the boards.

Paper is soft and friendly--plastic is sharp and industrial. It's all in the presentation, so show them the end result and not the tool you use. Just call them all Edge to Edge designs and don't emphasize your method. What do you think?

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Thanks, Linda. That's more "food for thought," too. My pantos are priced from 1.5 to 3 cents per square inch and my boards are priced the same, according to density. I think more photos of actual quilts done will help a lot. Right now, I just have a few of them in my binder.

Last year, my first year in business, I ran several "specials." So far this year I haven't, but maybe that is a thought. I could offer my boards at a discount, or feature a particular board on special different months. Hummm...more food for thought.

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I'm getting a lot of custom because my price starts at $.03 up to $.05 psi and the LQS is promoting me as a "specialty" quilter. Most in my area do pantos or meander only. I'm not making a lot right now due to the economy in my area. My prices will go up after a year - I made that promise to myself. I like the idea of a $25.00 set up / design fee. It easily takes an hour OR MORE to come up with what to do on a custom quilt.

But........as always......what can the market in your area afford? No matter what we feel our work / time is worth, can the customer afford it?

Great topic!

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lots of good input. i agree about 2 levels of 'custom'. i don't quote an exact amount ... i give an estimate with the understanding that i'll be e-mailing customer a final price. and what i do sounds corny, but it works for me. i start by laying out exactly what i'll be doing - from design contemplation, to loading the quilt, to actual work, to the actual binding (if i'm doing the binding). i then start costing it all out. custom price per square inch, the 'contemplating' hours x cost per hour, etc. and i don't short-change myself on the custom price which will include ruler work, stencil work, whatever. then comes the total cost ... yikes! if i look at the total charge and then mentally see what will be produced and i think the charge is too high, i'll come down until i feel comfortable about price and effort. and that's where 'custom' for customer and 'custom' for competition comes in. i'll go lighter on the custom for customer which helps reduce cost but still gives big effect. 'custom for competition' is a whole different ballgame and deserves the hours and $$$ that entails. i want to get to a win-win situation. if the customer still thinks my charge is too high, so be it. i won't come down anymore. my work is good and i deserve to be compensated. and there are a lot of LA's out there who will take her quilt and quilt it for less ... but to what gain? hmmmm ... how many customers have walked away from my pricing? not a one. i'm blessed.

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Custom is beautiful but it sure takes time!

There is very little money in it if you look at it as an hourly rate...but the total bill is huge. Customers do not realize the time it takes.

How do you handle the "customers" who pick your brains for how to quilt their quilt, love the plan and say they will be back with the batting or backing...and do not come back?? Do we charge a consultation fee for the hour we spent helping them??

This is a great topic. BTW Jess, did you get my u2u?:)

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Guest Linda S

Very good thoughts here! Like Shana, when the customer wants custom, and I know the price will be a huge shock, I ask them what their budget is for the quilt. What they were planning on spending for the quilting. When they tell me, I generally say, "well, at that price, I can do this and that, but not this. . ." They get the chance to tell me if they want more or less. Because most folks around here think I'm just a custom/heirloom quilter (don't know where they got that -- I'd kill for a good panto every now and then), I get lots of customers wanting high-end quilting, but they really don't want to pay for it. This is one of the reasons I'm getting an IQ (not that that is cheap). It can do a fancy motif in each block or in open spaces while I'm working on something else at the time. If I stopped and counted my hours on each quilt and figured out what I was making, I'm afraid I'd have to quit. However, I love quilting much more than I would love another job of equal pay where I have to come home smelling like grease after a day of asking, "do you want fries with that?" ;)

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Hi everyone... I would like to put my two cents worth in here for what it's worth.

First let me tell you that I have sent out a huge amount of quilts to be quilted by various long armers and I have paid all sorts of different fees for various services.

I am not opposed to spending $500 or more on a queen/king quilt for custom work. BUT, if I spend that large amount I am expecting very, very good work. Currently, I have a quilt out that I have told the lady I would pay $800 for her to quilt it...it is a large King aprox. 112x112 and I want alot of detail. I figure with the quilting and what I have already invested in materials, this quilt will end up costing me around $1200.

This quilter charges $20 per hr. She sent me pictures of quilts that she did on the low range and also the high range, so I could decide just what I wanted for density and what my budget will afford.

I will pay a reasonable fee for thread changes, specialty threads, turning the quilt and any other unexpected concerns that might come up.

Panto's are fast (usually) and are a pretty good money maker according to your time. Custom takes more time of course and should be in a catergory by itself.

Alot of the running to pick up and drop off quilts, can be wrote off as overhead in your taxes. Perhaps you can do that with other prep work too? I am just suggesting some different ways to look at things so a person doesn't scare off customers with a bunch of charges for this and that and then the quiting fee on top of everything.

If you think about what your area can afford, then you will get a more realistic idea as to what you should charge. Most of the ladies around here won't pay over $200 for a queen/king. So they usually end up wanting panto's so they don't have to pay so much for quilting since a lot of these quilts are gifts for family members.

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It's kind of encouraging to know that I'm not the only one with pricing problems for custom quilting. Here I thought you all had it all together and priced your work well and I was the odd-ball in my struggles with this issue. Somehow I'm comforted. :)

Anyway, you all have had some great ideas here and I need to incorporate some of them into my pricing and into my conversations with customers. A portfolio of work or samples of quilting styles is something that I think would be helpful too.

I don't know why I struggle with quoting a higher price. It's silly really. I want to give the customer my best, yet at the same time I don't want them to gasp at the cost. I think part of the problem is that I know that their perception of me is that I'm making loads of money off of custom work, and that's just not even close to being the case. I generally charge .04 to .05 for custom. On that last quilt I posted, the Hunter Star, the grand total came to $400, which included quilting, prep fee, thread and batting. (Prep fee is $10 per half hour and I often don't count all the time I spend because of my crazy thought that I have to keep the cost down.) Anyway, I was going to charge $389 and my kids were saying, "Mom, you need to charge more. Charge what its worth. At the very least go up to $450." Well, I added a little to make it $400. My kids were like....Mom? Really? $11? Come on Mom, you gotta do better than $11!!! I think I should have charged more like $550. It took so much time and the entire quilt is stitched in the ditch. That's probably still too low for the amount of time required. I'm not even sure how long it took...stopped keeping track so I wouldn't get too discouraged.

Lisa, I've never had someone come to my house to pick my brain and then never come back. That would probably bother me a lot because of the time wasted. I have had people pick my brain and ask for design ideas at guild meeting. I actually don't mind giving my ideas for their quilts. If they want to quilt it themselves or have someone else do it, that's great. I have plenty of work already.

I'm a bad business woman and I know it. I'm trying to be better. You guys are helping me though. Thanks for all your input.

Jess

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Well, here's my 4 cents worth. I charge by the hour no matter what I'm quilting. It's $45 an hour from first pin to the last pin. If the client comes back a third time, then the price goes down to $40 an hour and if they come back a fifth time, then it goes down to $35 and stops there. If somewhere in the middle of quilting I get a phone call, then the timer gets turned off and then back on when the call ends. Same thing happens when I go to get something to eat. If I'm doing computer work, then the timer stays on since the computer is doing all the work. I hope this helps you guys out with pricing for quilting since I've done about all the pricing games out there and find this is the easiest for me. zeke.................................:P........................;)

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Originally posted by zeke

Well, here's my 4 cents worth. I charge by the hour no matter what I'm quilting. It's $45 an hour from first pin to the last pin. If the client comes back a third time, then the price goes down to $40 an hour and if they come back a fifth time, then it goes down to $35 and stops there. If somewhere in the middle of quilting I get a phone call, then the timer gets turned off and then back on when the call ends. Same thing happens when I go to get something to eat. If I'm doing computer work, then the timer stays on since the computer is doing all the work. I hope this helps you guys out with pricing for quilting since I've done about all the pricing games out there and find this is the easiest for me. zeke.................................:P........................;)

Thanks for the input, zeke.

So my next question is--what do you tell your customer at drop off as to what the quilting charge will be? Do you say, $45 an hour? When she asks how many hours, can you give a close estimate? That's my downfall. I estimate by complexity and density of quilting and then give them MORE. (Bad bad quilter:P:P:P! I'm slapping my own hand as I say this!) I have made $45 an hour on E2E quilting, but lose the profit edge as the per-inch charge goes up.

Per-hour quilting would be a difficult sell where I live since all of us do the per-inch or per-yard calculations.

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