DawnCavanaugh Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Overall freehand designs..... These are different from pantos and pattern boards in that you quilt from the front of the machine and make up the designs as you go. Meandering, loopies, stars, etc.--whatever you create from your head. These should also have their own pricing structure, because quilting density and difficulty are a part of this, too. This time, load muslin on to your frame. Mark the muslin with 12-inch squares. Make a square for each size or "scale" of your design. For example, you may have five squares for "meandering"--one where the puzzle pieces are the size of golf balls, one where they are the size of quarters, one where they are dimes, one where they are peas, and one for "microstippling". Now time yourself again, noting how long it takes to fill each particular square with the design at the designated size/scale you predetermined. You may fill one with your large-scale design in less than a minute, but may take 30 minutes or more for microstippling. Next, do the math to see how long it takes you to do "one square inch of quilting" with that particular design. (12 inches times 12 inches = 144 square inches. Work in "seconds" for easy math. If it took 10 minutes to fill that square with your "small, dime-size meander", it took you 600 seconds (10 minutes x 60 seconds per minute = 600). Next, you have to calculate how long it took to quilt one square inch. So, if it took 600 seconds to quilt 144 square inches, to get our "per square inch" we need to divide 600 by 144, which equals just over 4 seconds (600 / 144 = 4.16 seconds). (Hang with me here...) If your quilt is 100 x 100, you've got 10,000 square inches. 10,000 square inches x 4 seconds per square inch = 40,000 seconds total. Wow! How many minutes is that? 40,000 seconds divided by 60 seconds in a minute...666 minutes...divide 666 minutes by 60 minutes in an hour...11 hours! I wanted you to understand the process, but the easy formula (once you know how long it takes your to quilt ONE SQUARE INCH of a design) is this: Square inches of quilt x number of seconds per square inch, divided by 3600 (3600 is the number of seconds in one hour--60 x 60 = 3600). If your "large meander" square calculated out to 0.5 seconds per square inch, then that same quilt would take 10,000 x .5 = 5000 seconds, divided by 3600 = 1.38 hours to complete the quilt with the large meander design. Remember, these don't account for the time it takes to advance the quilt, for your loading time, prep time, overhead, consultation, etc--it's only STITCHING TIME. Once you know the actual time it takes to do your overall freehand designs, you can set "per square inch" charges so that you are definitely earning that $25 per hour (in fact, you an often earn much MORE than your desired hourly wage and price accordingly.) In our queen size quilt example of 10,000 square inches, if you charged $.015 cents per square inch for your large meander, your "price" would be $150 for that quilt. If the quilt actually took you 1.38 hours of stitching time, and another 45 minutes to load, 15 minutes to advance, and 1 hour of consult time, you are up to 3.38 hours. To make our math easy, let's round it up to 4 hours (stuff always takes longer than you think anyway, right?) You just earned $37.50 an hour! These stitch-outs help you to be sure to charge ENOUGH for your work (and you can often earn more than your desired wage). Here are two more bonuses...the stitch-outs give you real-life examples to show your clients so they can see the design scale--her idea of "stippling" may not be the same as your idea of "stippling". It also helps you make sure you KEEP the design the same size through the quilt if you keep that example beside you as a reference. (Ever had your design get bigger and bigger as you go, because you just want to be DONE? ) The second advantage is giving you a concept of how long tiny detail stitching may take. If you do the microstippling stitch-out, you'll know how long it takes you to microstipple one square inch of fabric. Let's say Jane wants you to stipple around a feather in each empty quilt block. Cut a piece of paper to the size of your block (use freezer paper for larger areas--it's cheap and you can make sections as big as you need them by overlapping the edges and ironing them), and roughly sketch your feather on to the paper. Now lay a square rotary cutting ruler over the design (or any cutting ruler that has "square inch" markings). Count the number of square inches that fall outside the feather design where you will be stippling. (count partial squares, too). Now do your math again and add up how many square inches on that block you'll have to stipple. Multiply it by your numbers calculated earlier to learn how long the background will really take you to microstipple. This is another great way to be sure you are realistic in your estimations. Do the samples for ANY freehand designs that are regulars in your repertoire. Hope that makes sense! Now to explain logging custom quilting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 custom designs... Back to the log book. Estimating custom quilting is the hardest part of the job. Why? Because we typically have NO idea how long the quilt will actually take, because we've never taken the time to actually calculate it as we do it. So, we guesstimate, and typically guess way too low...right? If you're keeping one, your logbook now has a section devoted to "quilt preparation" with subdivisions for different quilt sizes. For custom quilting, add sections for the following quilting techniques: Borders add a subsection for each size quilt, crib to king; on each individual quilt size page, write down border HEIGHT sizes--1", 2", 3"----on to 15" if you want Blocks add a subsection for different block sizes--2" - 15" Sashing add subsections for different sashing widths and lengths, e.g. 2" x 8", 3" x 9", etc. (create subsections as you encounter them with a quilt; eventually you'll have a section for nearly every size sashing strip.) SID add subsections based on the number of patches in any given block--"0 - 10 patches", 11-15 patches, 16-20 patches, etc. Background quilting (use the info in the previous post about timing yourself for "per square inch" quilting to help you here). Add sections and categories as you need them and as different quilts present unique opportunities. Now, here's how to fill out the log book. For borders, set your timer and time how long it takes to quilt the LONGEST side of a particular quilt border. If it's king-size quilt with a 6-inch border, record how long it took you to complete that one long side in your log book on the page/subsection--"Borders--King Size Quilt---6-inch border". You'll find that we all tend to quilt that same 6-inch border with a similar amount of quilting that "looks good" for the scale. So you don't have to worry that you're using different designs each time you record a 6-inch border on the king-size quilt page. However, you could sub-divide your "6-inch border page even more into "light, medium and dense" levels. You may want to jot down the particular design down by each entry so you can look back and see that the last time you quilted a wandering oak leaf on a king size quilt, it took 45 minutes for the long side. Ultimately, your goal is to stop recording once you see an "AVERAGE" time starting to become obvious in each category. Now when you are calculating how long the quilt will take, you'll see that it's a king-size quilt with a 6-inch border, and you're filling it with a medium density design. The average design takes 45 minutes for one long side. TAKE THAT TIMES FOUR since the quilt has four sides. (using the long side timing gives you enough extra padding to account for doing the corners or for using different stitching methods). You're at 3 hours for the outer border. Next to calculate time for blocks, determine how long it takes to fill a particular size with a design (again, you can subdivide light, medium and dense levels and record specific design names). You're looking for averages, so in many cases one single quilt will give you an "average time" for any given block size. If your quilt has fifteen 12-inch blocks, and it takes you from 10 minutes to 12 minutes to quilt a feather wreath of medium density in each one, the AVERAGE TIME PER 12-INCH BLOCK FOR A MEDIUM DENSITY DESIGN IS 11 MINUTES. The next time a quilt comes in with 12-inch blocks and you choose a medium density design, take the number of blocks times 11 minutes to know about how long they will take to complete. Repeat this same concept to find the "average" time to quilt sashings of different sizes (one quilt will easily give you the average for a given size since there will be several strips to do, just like the block example above.) Do the same with SID...how long does it take to SID a block with 16 fabric patches? You may have a page devoted to continuous curve, or other techniques you do. The key is to write the time down in such a way that you can quickly find your average time for any skill or process. If you use several different methods to achieve a process (maybe you mark with chalk; maybe you use a laser only; maybe you stitch through paper) record averages for each process. If you take the time to do this as you go, it won't take long to fill out the log book. Once you have the "averages" determined, you don't have to do any timing any more. All you need to do is reference your book when you quote prices. Here's an example. Mary brought you a Queen size quilt, and wants medium density custom quilting. 1 - 6-inch border 1- 4-inch border 1 - 2-inch border 8 - pieced 12-inch blocks with 13 patches per block (SID) 7 - plain 12-inch blocks (design motif) 22 - 2-inch x 12-inch sashing strips In my logbook, I see that: 1 - 6-inch queen size border (longest side) with medium density takes 20 minutes for a freehand design. I must take that time 4 borders-- I'll plan 80 minutes for the outer border. 1 - 4-inch queen border takes 15 minutes--60 minutes 1 - 2-inch border=10 minutes --40 minutes 1 - 12 inch block with 13 patches takes 12 minutes to SID. 8 blocks times 12 minutes = 48 minutes 1 - 12-inch block to add a medium density design - 10 minutes (7 blocks times 10 = 70 minutes) 1 - 2" x 12" sashing takes 4 minutes. 22 sashings x 4 minutes= 88 minutes. I'm up to 386 minutes of STITCHING time. That is an AVERAGE. I have to evaluate the quilt's condition--it will affect my speed. I have to evaluate the method I will execute my designs with, and use the average time associated with that method (e.g. if I'm marking with chalk, that average will be different from completely freehanding my border design). I need to add in consultation time, design time, loading time, prep time, thread changing time, advancing the quilt, etc. etc. Now I can give Mary a quote based on how long it will realistically take me to complete that project while still earning my hourly wage. And since we kept a logbook or journal of these average prices, we can see where we could "cut" if Mary has a heart attack when I give her the quote. Instead of SID, for example, we could save $25 by doing continuous curve quilting. Another benefit of calculating your average time is in the booking process. If Mary says, that's great! Let's do it, and we are looking at elements that add up to 12 hours of quilting time and 2 hours of design/prep time, I know o book two full days for her quilt. Well, this is a summation of a class I occasionally offer at shows called "Pricing Strategies for Longarm Quilters", so there is still more I could chat about. But it is now late and time for bed:) If this helps anyone start earning what he or she is truly worth as a professional quilter, it's worth it...just as you are!!! Think about what you pay the plumber...electrician...hairstylist, etc. Remember... you can charge a penny a square inch and you'll earn $100 on each queen-size quilt. (did you count your overhead, loading time, etc. in that $100?) Or you could charge 2 cents per square inch and earn $200 per quilt. You tell me you'll lose 50% of your customers if you double your price to 2 cents. Hmmm...so I could earn twice as much money at 2 cents and work half as hard since I'll only be quilting for half as many people! Sounds good to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail O Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Dawn, we are so lucky to have you among us! What are doing awake all night? g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy2018 Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 WOW:D:D I have taken classes at Houston for this very thing, paid a lot of money, and not gotten as much good advise. The really best part of it though, is that this comes from direct experience...from a person we all acknowledge as one of the very best. Thanks so much for your great thoughts, I've copied them for the APQS bible I've started in a 3 ring. I do so like to refer to it when needed... Kudos to you Dawn, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Dawn, that was wonderful. I have it copied and on my desktop. I never wanted to quilt for others although I used to. Today the majority of people will gasp if the quilting costs over $100. I remember doing SID king size quilts for $35 on a Juki with a 9" throat and a 12 ft table. Now I gasp when I think of how many I did for that price! LOL I quit quilting for people because they didn't want to pay for quilting in the olden days. They thought the money for the fabric and supplies were enough (they used old sheets for backing, old wool blankets for the batting and "whatever" fabric for the pieced tops...cotton, poly, knits, all together) and the quilting was a secondary thing to them. I'm sure everyone has their own horror stories about this. I finally stored my machine for a couple of years and conveniently forgot to tell anyone that I set it back up. I quit making quilts for people for the same reason. Most do not understand the cost of fabric now and just how much fabric it takes to make a quilt. And they all want a King size with drape over their beds. They have become accustomed to going to the local department store and purchasing a "handmade" quilt for $39 and think they are being gouged when you tell them the backing alone will be $100 or more. Now when people ask me to make them a quilt or to quilt something for them the first thing I say is "NO". I tell them I don't have the time. If it's a friend with a special request or a family member wanting something for someone else, I ask them up front..."How much do you want to spend on this project?". Most of them back out when they realize the cost of the supplies WITHOUT my time added. If it is a special friend or family member and they want something for themselves I tell them I will make them a quilt and it will be my gift to them. However, since I am gifting my time and supplies then I get to make the all decisions regarding the quilt, but I will keep their tastes in mind. I love the very specific details you give in your instructions. I will set up a log like you said and the next time I'm asked to do a quilt I will pull out this log...figure out the total cost...and it will be the equivalent of telling them "NO" or else I will be paid for my time and supplies. Yay! You are such a valuable asset to this forum. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseCity Quilter Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is a fabulous thread!!! I have learned so much. Thanks all, I have some great ideas. Think it's time to start a log.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Ingram Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thank you, thank you Dawn! Your wealth of knowledge and your willingness to share it is truly appreciated! I hope every quilter on this forum reads and learns from it. Last week hundreds of immigrant workers walked out of a Hershey factory in Pennsylvania. They were making $8.35 an hour straight up and it wasn't enough. (They pay no taxes or SS.) It would be interesting to know how many quilters on this forum clear $8.35 an hour. OK--let's get those logs rolling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnCavanaugh Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Glad to help, Judy! Everyone has great ideas about how to set prices for quilting...we just have to glean what makes sense for us and go from there. Happy Quilting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwltnldy Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I know this is kind of an old thread but I have a question about "sit & stare". I can usually use any new design idea on more than one quilt, so wouldn't it be kind of unfair to charge one customer for the "sit & stare" when you may end up with such a great idea that it goes well on other quilts? I have dreamed about design ideas, does that count? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Originally posted by qwltnldy I know this is kind of an old thread but I have a question about "sit & stare". I can usually use any new design idea on more than one quilt, so wouldn't it be kind of unfair to charge one customer for the "sit & stare" when you may end up with such a great idea that it goes well on other quilts? I have dreamed about design ideas, does that count? LOL I'm with you, Robin, at least to a certain extent: when I do a full-on custom quilt, I may not charge the customer as much as others (certainly not a living wage, when you add in the "sit and stare" time, phone calls, invoicing and all that ), but that quilt will also be a sales piece for my services. Not all customers will come to me to pay the "custom" price, but just seeing that quilt in a show or in a guild show-and-tell will bring them to my door. That being said, I don't think I could charge a customer for all the design time I might spend on her quilt - part of that time, I'm coming up with ideas for my OWN quilts! As others have said above, this is just the way I do it, and there are as many ways to do it as there are quilters!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I essentially do the same as Zeke, I charge an hourly rate. Having done a few quilts I was able to convert that into a square inch price. So I can now put the size of a quilt into my calculator and get a price which tells me how long it will take me to quilt. It's usually right to within a few minutes. That charge is made up of several elements but it works for me. Custom I just charge by time. They vary so much I couldn't do it any other way. I have got much better at estimating for them, but I am far from perfect. However, when a customer is happy to spend $500+ a couple of hours either way doesn't worry them. It's a much smaller percentage than if you were off by the same amount on a quick quilt. I would also say getting hourly rate up is largely a matter of streamlining how you work to be as quick as you can be. I only do freehand work, and a lot of what I've seen listed here as custom I wouldn't put in that category. I found pantos were too slow and too much of a pain to be worth my time, but quilting block by block I can often do quite quickly and thus cheaply. Ferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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