Competing with Computerized Quilting

[Grammie]

I totally agree Joann. I saw this beautiful quilt at Houston of Renae's and it was stunning to say the least. She is very talented. The concept and manner in which she designed it was very cool.

I hope to do something in the near future using her Renae rays. The way she using all the different threads and such is unbelievable.

It was a well deserved Award. What guts. Black on one side and White on the other.

I know that that this Computerrized Catagory cannot be ignored with the way it is growing in popularity.

So many catagories. I remember reading criticism about Hollis Chatlain (I know I spelled this wrong sorry). Her painted wholecloths with all the thread are too beautiful but many commented on the fact that it wasn't a quilt. I'm glad the judges disagreed. I could never no matter how I try compete with this type of quilting style but I am still for having it. You cannot igore the beauty. I'm glad there are many catagories for types of creative quilting processes. It is good for the industry as a whole. More fabrics, more tools, more teachers and more FUN!!!!!

[marycontrary]

I gotta tell ya, I agree with Hester and admire her for being brave enough to venture her opinion about CQ and its use in business and competition. Most of the time I'm just a lurker on this site, and so far I'm quilting for only my own pleasure. But she really got me thinking about two aspects of computerized quilting systems -- business competition and contest competition.

The reality is, the vast majority of LA'ers out there sacrificed to purchase their machines. They do not have, cannot afford and may never be able to purchase a CQ or similar system. I think it's important to ask questions about how these issues might affect them.

Is it possible that computer quided systems might actually make it harder for the average LA'er in business, who may barely have the $$$ and space for one non-computer machine, to compete? And for APQS and our dealers, is it possible that the cost of and competition from these systems might eventually become a disincentive to even purchasing a first longarm and starting a business? Are we on a slippery slope here? Or am I just getting older and more resistant to change and "progress" (don't answer that!)?

And as for contest competition, there are those who can and do accomplish the same (or better) perfect results without the CQ or other computerized system, but with a much greater investment of time, energy, expertise and talent. Is it fair that their work ever be compared to, let along judged against, computer driven design and stitching?

Having said all that, I guess the reality is that computer quided quilting is here to stay. For those who can afford it and want to take their business in that direction, CQ must be wonderful for more quickly accomplishing beautiful and more perfect results on customer quilts. But I gotta wonder if this doesn't somehow have the effect of devaluing the handquided work of LA'ers who don't have these systems. And as for quilt competition, seems to me that allowing its use here just continues to drive the standard higher and higher, which could become a disincentive for many to even consider entering a competition.

Just food for thought,

Mary Burns

Living happily with Myrtle (Liberty) in Buda, TX

[qwltnldy]

A few months ago I posted a much less blunt comment than Grammie Tammie did about this topic and how I was a bit afraid I could never compete with a computer and nobody answered me. I want to thank her for her courage in speaking up. I have a feeling tho that it is going to come to a point where I may HAVE to take the plunge and buy CQ. I asked a (fellow LA'er) who has been in business for a number of years and is very successful what she thought of this very topic and her response was "Oh, I don't mass produce." Right then, I determined that I would never "mass produce" but , like the hand quilter's of yesteryear, I may just have to swallow that. I am very torn on the subject at the moment. I agree with that one person who said they like the "surprise" element and at the same time, I would dearly love the comfort of knowing something is going to turn out perfect. Oh well, I don't have enough business right now to get one anyway, so I'll just have to wait.

Also I find myself agreeing with mary contrary in regards to how it will affect those of us who cannot afford the computer. I seem to find that customers don't care HOW a design got on their quilt, just that it looks great!

I guess that for me, until there is a separate category for "computerized" vs "hand-guided" longarm I won't be entering any contests.

[chickenscratch]

I've got to put one more word in on this discussion. Do some of us realize that us having a problem with computerized quilting is exactly like the little old ladies in the local guild here complaining because I and other quilt by machine (longarm or domestic). Technology has allowed quilting to advance, just as everything else has advanced. I personally think it is great. Have I lost customers because I don't have a SR or CQ? Yes, I know for a fact I have. That's okay. I'm still learning and by the time I get CQ on a Millie I will know what I'm doing with thread, fabric, tension, etc. so that I too can turn out these masterpieces. Would I want my work judged against a computerized quilt? If I know that I did my absolute best and had an extraordinary looking quilt then I would hope it would be judged as that, a great looking quilt, in a category appropriate for hand guided work. I know I wouldn't want to hand quilt one and then have it appear next to one of Bonnie's longarm quilts (which are beautiful), even though she doesn't have a stitch regulator or computerized quilter.

[thepearsonfamily]

I don't compete with any of my quilts, I've only been a longarmer for a year. I think that there is a time and place for every type of quilter and quilting style.

My frustration with computerized quilting is my customers don't understand the difference. I am resentful to be compared to someone who does their work with a computer. That is not the type of quilting that I want to do, at least not right now. And it frustrates me when I hear people ooow and ahhh over a piece and try to compare it to my work. It would be fine if they understood that it was done by program, but I can't do perfect anything like a program.

My husband had asked me if I needed a computer to compete in my market and I said abosolutely not. If someone does want something very specific and perfect and is willing to spend that kind of money I would send them along to someone with such a program.

It is just not where I care to be at this point of my quilting career.

[Grammie]

When I began this thread I had no idea that it would generate such a variety of responses and passion with regard to the feelings each of us have as quilters regardless of our style of quilting. I love this craft.

The one thing we can all agree on is that we LOVE quilting and each have a passion for it and where it fits into our lives.

In many ways we are UNITED despite the different opinions.

So much for all of us to learn still.

I love this thread.

[Jerri]

Great topic.... Has anyone "timed" and edge to edge design using computor quided quilting? Since I don't have one I am interested in knowing "computer vs hand time frames".

From what I have seen (Statler at work) - I can freehand an E2E quilt, using my own designs much quicker and if you are in business, time is money..... You still have to load, advance the quilting but the actual quilting may be quicker.

Just a thought:o

[Guest LA]

Hi Jerri,

Depending on what is going on in my shop with interruptions, on a perfect day, I can easily do 3 E2E quilts, no problem!

[JoAnnHoffman]

Depending on the density of the pantograph it could take 15-30 minutes per row. I know when I manually did a pantograph I would stop and take breaks in the middle of the row. Do people charge more if it is done by the computer? I charge the same as if I did it by hand.

[Jerri]

Mary I agree with your thoughts......

When you factor in the additional cost of adding a computer, the learning curve, and what your geographical area will support with regards to pricing, are you ahead financially? How many quilts will your business have to generate before you begin to see a profit?

Many, if not most customers want a beautiful design that works in their budget. I love to take a finished quilt off the frame and think "WOW, I did that, not a computer but just me and my hands ". I'm not sure I would get that same "rush" if a computer did it... just my thoughts.

Jerri

http://community.webshots.com/user/jerquilts

[Mary Beth]

Heavens, I cannot imagine having a quilt in a competition. I have been wondering about those that do and about the CQ angle. I agree with Jerri in that I like taking a quilt off the frame knowing that I did something to enhance the quilt.

As for the cost....I am still paying for my machine and that is a struggle with the customer base I have. I cannot justify a CQ. To pay for a machine and a CQ and not charge more for the quilting - I just cannot wrap my brain around.

[Phyllis Wright]

I love the thread on this subject.

When I first had the idea to get a Longarm machine, about 6/7 yrs. ago, I went to a quilt show in Seattle to look at some machines. When in the booth, I was looking at some quilts on display which had been done on the L/A and asked some ladies if they minded that this leaf, feather or squigle was not exactly the same as the next leaf, feather or squigle. They said 'absolutely not, it was all part of the process". Well, I guess I wanted my quilting to be perfect right from the start and it bothered me that it wouldn't be, but eventually I bought my APQS, soon upgraded to the Milly, at least getting my stitches even. Now my quilting will never be 'perfect', but my customers seem to think I do a pretty good job, and even I think some of them are quite good, but I still want my quilting to be as 'perfect 'as possible, so I am definitly a CQ wannabe!

When I look on the various sites which offer digitized designs for the CQ , I am in awe and I just can?t wait to get going with a CQ. I am hoping to go to Innovations in September to check it all out.

It?s interesting to see that some people seem to think they do a quicker job with the CQ whilst others take longer. Is this just because some of you have had your CQ for longer and have just got used to operating it.

I have lots of questions, but I?ll leave it at that for now. Sorry, but my computer is doing funny things again with the appostrophies.

[CherylUribe]

Well, I respect every opinion that has been expressed here and agree with all of them in some ways. (is that an oxymoron?!) Anyway....

I was a reluctant CQ owner. At first I thought like a lot of you, that it may not be for me etc. Though I was always fascinated by it's capabilities. The more I saw it in action and talked with people who owned them -the more my opinion changed. It finally occurred to me, why stand the and physically quilt when the CQ can do it and much faster?! Yes, I can quilt pretty well. I've received the pats on the back, I've won some ribbons, attracted some great customers and been published -toot toot! I'm over it. What a fun journey it's been! Very grateful for my freehand days. I can still have them and do. Certain things I prefer to freehand and have that ability. Nice to have choices. For those who can't afford or choose not to go computerized great! What a wonderful quilting world we live in. Just as we attract different customers with our signature style, we'll attract or not the customers that like how we get there. There is a place for all of us and one is not better than the other.

I think there should be a combined category (computerized/freehand) and straight computerized category.

[Guest LA]

Yes for me on the CQ, it's all about time & density just as it is

when I am freehanding, time is money honey.

I just like the fact that I can have both worlds & do what the quilt needs & what the customer wants/needs. I have the tools to make more Ka-ching and it sure has been a blessing for me in my quilting.

For sure it has kicked it up a notch with my customers raving that they can have Sherry Rogers feathers or Karen McTavish designs if they want them. Heck, I have even digitized my own free hand stuff & it is still my own signature style that my customers love. They really dont care how I do it, they just want it!

All I know is that I can quilt ANYTHING that walks through my door & I dont have to faint or fall over dead when I see double wedding rings quilts & the like that I used to lose my fanny on for time, gotta love it!

Cheryl, I am happy to see that you have your CQ, it gets better all the time & let me know if you have questions etc.

Happy Quilting to all my buddies, no matter how you do it, it's all good stuff!!

Originally posted by JoAnnHoffman

Depending on the density of the pantograph it could take 15-30 minutes per row. I know when I manually did a pantograph I would stop and take breaks in the middle of the row. Do people charge more if it is done by the computer? I charge the same as if I did it by hand.

[kerri]

To Compuquilter gals,

Do you need to hover over the machine as it stitches, or do you fill comfortable doing other things as it is stitching a row?

Do glitches happen? or does it work fairly consistently?

The computerized quilting appears so much more to my liking than computerized embroidery. Being able to program any size and doing edge to edge looks really neat. I

It still seems like the payoff would take awhile, but what a neat tool!

[Guest LA]

Seriously, it is not rocket science, trust me.

I certainly do not take a nap while CQ is running, but I do feel confident in leaving the room. It has a timer so you know how long it has to stitch out. Unless you are doing motifs, then you dont even have time to leave the room!

In the beginning you will want to practice on some muslin or practice top for a day, just like you did in the beginning with your machine. The good news is your quilting isnt going to look like a newbie!

One of my very favorite features is the resizing & preview lay out, especially for the E2E (pantos) no more run off! The designs are resized to fit the quilt perfectly.

The only thing I can tell you about the ROI (return on investment) is that you literally have the power to do many times over what you can do hand guided, which translates to more $$ Which pays for the CQ.

When I see customers that buy CQ they are at a point where they can't keep up with their business & don?t want to lose it, & the benefit of having customized designs for those quilts that make your heart stop! Or they just want to start their business with little learning curve & hit the ground running. Quilt shops love it as well, not tell tale signs of who started & finished the quilting.

We have training here, so drop me a line any time.

Have a great day!

Linda

[qwltnldy]

I'm confused about CQ as it relates to "mass producing". Specifically, I read an article in PLYB (Longarm Yellow Pages Book) that talked about the law when it comes to digitizing someone else's designs and using them. If you use the digitized and resized design on a CQ more than once, does that fall under the "mass produced" heading and therefore puts one in a precarious position. For example, if you take the "Sherry Rogers" feather, digitize it, do it on a bunch of quilts, are you "mass producing"? I am thinking of the copyright statement that some pattern authors have that states: "Design may be used by a professional quilter on as many quilts as desired" however, according to Marcia Stevens in this article, this does not mean "mass production" unless written consent is obtained. It cannot be digitized or stored by any means, this would mean on a computer, nor can it be resized. SO, does this mean that a CQ owner must obtain written consent by the pattern author before digitizing it and resizing it on their machine? I guess the real question is "What exactly consititutes mass production?" Does anyone know the answer to that one?

[Guest LA]

I buy the designs already digitized by a designer like Sherry's or Karen's.

If you have a book in question be sure to read about the use of the designs etc. They all have different terms.

If all else fails contact the designer for clarification just to be sure.

[digisuz]

?Massed Produced? goods are all exactly the same and produced in great numbers or quantity. An example of massed produced quilts would be to take a design, bring it to Taiwan and make 250,000 quilts that get sold at Target Stores all over America. It doesn?t mean a small business longarm quilter. Mass production quilts are done usually in Asian countries on huge commercial quilting machines that cost over $100,000 each. Some of these machines run vertically and they are loaded with giant panels of fabric . . . that?s mass production. We are home-based/small business based quilters, not mass production quilters.

Grammie Tammie told me she has a new customer who is a designer and he told her that he usually takes his quilt projects to Houston where there are some giant commercial quilting machines. He is thrilled to pay Grammie 4 cents a square inch for overall CQ designs because in Houston they only have a few designs to choose from. Grammie Tammie and everyone else who has a CompuQuilter can offer an enormous amount of designs. So, guess what, the designer has hired Grammie to do his client quilting at 4 cents a square inch because her design selection is just too good to pass up !! So there's another example of how your longarm quilting business can expand into other niche markets to pay for your machine.

The professionally digitized designs that computerized quilters buy are authorized by the designers to be sold in digital form. We lawfully purchase them, and currently there are thousands of designs available world-wide. We then use our CompuQuilter system to size, rotate, mirror image and plan custom layouts of the designs to suit each quilt situation. In this way we have the right to use the designs without limit on our personal and customer quilts ? much like you would be able to use a lawfully purchased paper version of the design in the course of your longarm business. Every week there are more designs being converted from one computerized format to other computerized formats, and many paper pattern designers are having their designs converted to digitized versions too. The designs of many well-known designers and longarm quilting teachers are being digitized or will be digitized.

There are situations where one could be in violation of copyright laws, like taking designs from non-authorized sources and digitizing them, but that is not a discussion we should have as we are not lawyers.

It?s not that CompuQuilter?s needle speed is running faster than your hand-guided speeds. Actually, I run mine at a steady pace. With CQ you can do more in a day because you don?t have the same problems with fatigue and body pains from quilting long hours hand-guiding. That?s probably the bigger reason why CQ quilters have the ability to get more quilting done. With that said, it is also true that in certain quilting situations, CQ?s precision is so great and accurate that our ability to custom place a design could be faster than some hand-guided techniques. It is definitely true that there are some wonderful design elements that CQ can perform that can?t be done by hand-guiding a longarm machine.

Warm Regards to all quilters,

- Suzanne Moreno

Digitizing for CompuQuilter Instructor

cqdigi@charter.net

541.660.8053

[Guest LA]

Thanks Suzanne for posting this for us regarding copyrights!

I know you have an incredible amount of knowledge in this

CQ world & your willingness to share is a blessing!!

It is so wonderful to have you as an asset to us, we love you!!!!!

[Phyllis Wright]

I agree, it's great to have so many knowledgable people on this list who are willing to share with us.

Suzanne, you said you run your machine 'at a steady pace' when useing CQ, does this mean you do or do not use your S/R ?

[digisuz]

Hi Phyllis,

When using CompuQuilter, you are not in SR mode. CQ's program takes over so you are actually running CQ computerized stitches, which are highly regulated in appearance - they are beautiful, top and bottom. We can adjust the speed and stitch length. Depending on how intricate the design is, and the look of the stitch you want, you adjust your speed and stitch length to choose the look that appeals to you as the quilter. I like a distinct stitch, so I typically run my CQ at a steady pace. That combined with my choices of thread and needle size gives me the look that I like to offer my customers. That's another thing that's so great about CQ - you decide and choose according to your desire. CompuQuilter is great fun to see in action.

Best Wishes,

- Suzanne Moreno

Digitizing for CompuQuilter Instructor

cqdigi@charter.net

541.660.8053

[Vicki A]

Hi all,

I am, obviously, waaayyyy behind on reading the forums here, but I have to comment on Renae's quilt "Sugar & Spice" that was on the cover of our January issue (and won an award at Houston and at R2CA.) Renae's "computerized" quilt was NOT done on a CompuQuilter, or any other computerized longarm machine. The digitized EMBROIDERY on it (done on a Bernina) caused it to be in a computerized category. All of the longarm quilting you see (including all those straight and curved lines!) were hand-guided by Renae, using her Renae's Arcs for guides.

Just didn't want there to be any confusion that this quilt was a completely computer-guided quilt. You CAN do it!

Vicki Anderson

Publisher

Unlimited Possibilities Magazine

www.upquiltmag.com

APQS Ult II

[Stagecl]

I, too, am waaayyy behind on reading this thread. But having quilted for 3 years w/o a compuquilter and now owning one...I can't believe I waited so long to buy a compuquilter. I would not trade it in and go back to doing E2E by hand. While the machine is quilting one quilt...I am preparing the next quilt for the machine. Yes, some designs take longer to run by the computer...but the complexity that can be quilted with the computer on an E2E would be impossible to replicate in a timely fashion by hand guiding or as consistently stitched. My customers love the choice and detail of designs available to them.

As for competition....there needs to be more than one best of show to at least cover the difference between an art quilt and traditional.

Cheryl Mathre

Stone Creek Quilting

Sandy Hook, VA

[k8]

In a perfect world that might be true.... However, in a show catagory, you will always compete against another project. It wasn't long ago that longarming was "cheating" to some, lol. BOy have we come a long way!!!

QUOTE from Chickenscratch: I just feel that every quilt should be judged as an individual rather than being compared to others, regardless of how it was created.