Basting the Quilt

[gable428]

Question please. When I baste my quilt top, I do the top, then down the sides as far as I can then start quilting, advance, repeat down the sides, etc. Am I supposed to baste the top, the sides and the bottom, then roll back up and start quilting? Thank you.

Gable

[Mary Beth]

Gable,

I'm sure everyone does it different, but I do the same thing you do. I did learn something from a teacher at MQS, she encouraged us to pin bast the sides because the quilt will shrink or maybe shift some and she said that once the binding is put on things could twist if the sides are basted tightly. We all groaned at the thought and she said that we could do a large basting stitch down the sides that way if there is any change, the top will have room to do whatever it is going to do.

Hope this makes sense.

Mary Beth

[quiltmonkey]

Mary Beth, is it best to quilt the inner blocks first (while under tension with the pony clamps and the roller) before quilting down the side (basting stitch) along the outside edge/border?

[gable428]

Thank you Mary Beth for the response.

Gable

[Mary Beth]

Shana,

You are not suppose to ask me technical questions, I am here for the easy questions only

Actually, I am changing my ways. I have always just quilted the top border, the inner blocks, then turned the quilt - if needed - and done the final border. I think that is wrong. From what I have been reading that can cause my borders to be wavy...sooo... I think I need to stablize the blocks, then do the borders first, then go back in and do the blocks...at least I think that's right. Where is Dawn Cavanaugh when I need her? Gosh, I am moving to Ames, to the house next door to Dawn...oh, now that is a thought...wouldn't that be nice? Gotta go...need to go to realty.com and see if her neighborhood has any empty houses!! (She probably lives on a farm in the middle of a corn field somewhere - that would be my luck:D).

[DawnCavanaugh]

Mary Beth,

Glad you're thinking of moving! However, don't move to Ames; you'd still be too far away. There IS a house on our block up for sale, but you'd have to move to Ankeny. Not that I wouldn't come and visit you in Ames--there's a terrific quilt shop there called Quilting Connections. Road trip??

Your response to Gable is correct in that everyone does things differently. Repeat this mantra:

"If I'm happy with the result, who cares how I got there?"

The concern I have about basting the top completely and then going back to add the quilting is addressed below in my long-winded explanation. Right or wrong, if you were standing in my basement watching me quilt, here's the order you'd see me quilt:

[*] Measure the quilt before loading. Measure in the middle, then along the edges. Do this both vertically and horizontally. I want to know if there is any excess in the borders to deal with (which is fodder for another long thread). I relation to this question, though, I want to know if the side borders have excess so that I know how to handle them once the quilt is loaded.

[*] It's important to note that I personally turn nearly every quilt I do so that I can do any long "vertical" quilt parts in one pass. This would include the side borders, vertical sashing, long "ditches" between blocks, etc.

[*] Load the quilt (quilter's choice on zipping, floating, pinning)

[*] I prefer to pin the side borders as I go, instead of machine basting the sides. Since many of the quilts I do for customers are of the "traditional" nature and are custom quilted, many times I will have a border design that is "floating" inside the border's perimeter. In other words, no quilting is done that actually reaches the outer edge of the quilt. (NOTE: if you are doing edge to edge quilting or your design does extend past the outermost edges of the quilt, then machine basting the edge will have less of an impact on causing a wavy border, since the quilting will act as a stabilizer for the border. I still pin the sides even when I'm doing an overall pattern, but I'm sure it's just habit. If a pin gets in my way I just pull it out or reposition it.)

When quilting this way, and by adding quilting in the interior sections of the quilt, the body of the quilt will shrink and "draw up" somewhat. If I've already locked the quilt's side edges in place along the batting and backing with basting stitches, the edge of the quilt doesn't have the opportunity to "draw up" in accordance with whatever's happening inside the quilt. If these basting stitches remain in the quilt when the binding is attached, you'll have a "ruffled" border.

So, if you prefer to baste the edges (and your quilting does NOT extend to the outer edges of the quilt), I suggest a longer basting stitch, such as an inch apart, so that the basting acts like pins would. It would leave space between each basting stitch for the quilt to react to the interior quilting. I'd accomplish a longer stitch by using the "needle up/down" feature.

If you'd still rather do a running basting stitch, then consider removing it before attaching the binding, and "re-baste" the quilt's edge after it's had a chance to relax and re-adjust according to the quilting inside the quillt. Remember, when those basting stitches go into the quilt's edges, the quilt is taut on a frame. Once it relaxes, the edges will tend to "lettuce leaf" if the quilting didn't extend to the edge.

For pinning OR basting, you need to know if the side borders have excess fabric. Then you'd want to take your hand and place it on the body of the quilt, then slide out across the border. Keep your hand parallel to the rollers. Do this three or more times, first close to the leveler bar, then moving your hand down and making another pass, and then another even farther down. This will actually "ease in" any excess border fabric that happens to be between the rollers at this time.

Hold the border in place using pins or tack basting. If you do the running baste, the hopping foot will just push that excess fabric around, and eventually you'll end up with a "dog ear" down on the lower corners of the quilt. Note: I ONLY pin what's visible between the rollers, then do whatever quilting I'm going to do. Then I advance the quilt to the next section, pin the sides, and quilt. However, if I'm doing an overall design, I would remove the first set of pins before advancing the quilt. If I never need to go back to a section of the quilt for any reason (such as overall design or to turn the quilt) then I remove the pins before advancing. If I DO need to return to a quilt section, then the pins STAY IN as I go.

As for the pins, I use Clover Flower Head Pins with a very fine flexible shaft. (They come in packages of 20--let me know if you need more info.) These supple pins allow me to pin perpendicular to the rollers so that I can actually leave the pins in the quilt as I roll it up. They wrap around the roller and don't tear or distort the quilt. Then I can easily turn the quilt--not only because the pins are already there, ready for me to use to attach the quilt to the canvas--but because they are holding the border fabric in place "already eased in" if it had any excess.

[*] Whew--didn't I say I'd save that explanation for another post?

[*] Okay, quilt's loaded, sides are secured. My first step: Stitch in the ditch between the top border and whatever's next. I start where the border corner is, and stitch across, then secure and cut the thread.

[*] Step Two: insert the border design for the top border, including whatever I'm doing to get around the corners. I do not go any further down the side border. (Since I'm turning the quilt, I won't need to deal with a lot of starts and stops or worry about whether the design will come out when I get to the bottom of the quilt. I also won't risk pushing that fabric ever so slightly "down the quilt" as I advance, resulting in that dog ear at the bottom corners.)

[*] Step Three: Complete any background fill around the border design in the top border, if it's part of the quilting plan.

[*] Step Four: Stitch in the ditch below the second border, if there is one. Insert the design into THIS border, just turning the corners. Add any background fill as required.

[*] Step Five: Stitch in the ditch below the first row of blocks. If there are empty blocks, insert the chosen quilting design into the block. However, If I'm ALSO going to add background fill around the design, it is not done until the quilt is turned (more on this later).

[*] Step Six: Stitch in the ditch around any patchwork as required by the design decisions I've made. Insert designs within the patches either as I go (using the SID to get from one place to another) or by starting and stopping (yuck) if necessary.

[*] Step Seven: SID below the next row of blocks (or sashing, or whatever). Continue as in Step Six through the quilt.

[*] Step Eight: SID between the blocks and the inner border, then SID between the inner border and outer border. Insert the design, and then add any background quilting.

[*] Step Nine: SID between the inner and outer border. Insert the design, and add any background quilting.

[*] Step Ten: Turn the quilt. (If this needs an explanation, let me know.)

[*] Step Eleven: IF the quilt has several borders or very large borders, and I find that once the quilt is turned I've got a lot of unquilted fabric between the inner sections of the quilt and the outer border, I will ROLL DOWN to where the heavy quilting has been done on the interior of the quilt, and then work my way from there BACK UP to the outer border. This prevents tucks or puckers from forming on the backing or quilt top.

I would do the same thing as the first pass on the borders: SID above and below the border before inserting the design, then add the filler. Work your way back up to the top border.

[*] Step Twelve: On the body of the quilt, SID above and below the quilt block rows. Now would be the time that I would add any background quilting , since the SID would encase the entire outer edge of the block's perimeter. This is important to prevent the background filler from distorting the block's shape.

Another nice thing about doing it this way is that I rarely have many starts and stops--as I'm stitching in the ditch below the row of blocks, I can simply slip up into the block and do the background fill all around the design before moving along the ditch to the next block.

Complete the bottom borders as you did the top, first "trapping" the fabric by SID above and below the border, then inserting the design and finally any background stitching.

I just realized I typed in a "12-Step Program for Quilting.":P

I can't emphasize enough that there's more than ONE "right way" to accomplish your goal. (Just don't tell my husband because I've got him conditioned to think that MY way is always the "right way.";)

Hope this sheds some light, and doesn't make everyone run screaming from their computer screens!

Happy Quilting!

Dawn

[Mary Beth]

I knew it was an "A" name

[gable428]

Dawn, I love your 12-step program for quilters Thank you for the info.

Gable

[Hotquilts]

I used to pin baste the edges of the quilt top. Now I prefer to machine baste the edges with a long stitch (about 1/2") in a zig-zag fashion, i.e. one bite of the stitch just off the quilt edge, the next bite approx. 1/4" inside the quilt edge. This stitching will ultimately be covered by the binding.

What I like about this method is that it allows for some give and easing of excess fabric, if necessary, and it helps prevent the hopping foot from accidentally flipping over the edge of the quilt top if the pattern runs on and off the edges of the quilt. It also reduces the tendency to get a tiny tuck in the backing right at the quilt's edge. (I sometimes forget to carefully check the underside of the quilt after I advance the quilt and this makes it less critical to do so.)

If I'm turning the quilt for border completion I usually machine baste the side borders with big 1" stitches. Easy to remove once the quilt has been turned.

This is just my preference for dealing with those pesky quilt edges.

Christine

[Lynne]

Thank you so much Dawn....I too have been wondering about this and your information came just in time. I've got a king size quilt with 4 large borders to do...they total about 24 inches per side. The owner told me to do whatever I wanted and I had visions of those borders flapping away!!!

Lynne in Ann Arbor

[quiltmonkey]

Oh I learn so much stuff from you all on this chat. Over the past month, I have started printing out these topics full of goodies and putting them in my reference binder.

I bow to all of you.....

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[MarthaProvencher]

Dawn,

Do you change that order if you use different color threads in the borders and squares? I.e., will you change threads more than once to do that order, or will you quilt the inside, change threads, then quilt top and bottom borders, then turn, finish borders?

Just wondering about the balance between efficiency and evening out the quilt process to avoid wavy borders.

Thanks!

[DawnCavanaugh]

Hi Marty,

The order is nearly always the same for me. As a custom quilter, I often change thread colors hundreds of times on a quilt. Now, the first thing you should know is that I'm really lazy at heart.

To prevent the need to run around to the back of the machine with every thread change, I bought the vertical spool holder from APQS. It mounts right up front, so changing threads is simple--snip the thread at the spool, switch spools, a quick overhand knot, drag the thread to the needle and I'm off again.

In addition, I'm the kind if gal who prefers to work on an area until it's done, so that I don't "forget" something. Once, a long, long time ago, I tried working through a quilt with "Color #1", then rolling back to do "Color #2", etc. For me, I found that I often "missed" a section, and I had trouble keeping the fabric and backing smooth when I would go back and forth. So, I scrapped that and just do every section as completely as possible before moving on.

I know several quilters who prefer a different "quilting" order. As long as you are stabilizing the quilt enough to prevent tucks, pleats, or distortion, you should be fine.

Is my method the most "efficient"? Definitely not. It also eliminated the only exercise I get (from walking to the back of the machine and around again ). But it works for me. Remember my mantra: "If you're happy with the result, who cares how you got there?"

Happy Quilting,

Dawn

[MarthaProvencher]

Love it, thanks.

But...do you do tension checks with every thread change, or do you keep the type of thread the same, if possible, and check tension only if you change type, or can you change tension on the fly.

AND how do you check tension when you do? I use a scrap in the margin of the batting and backing. Seems like when I don't is when I end up frogging.

AND how often do you oil the bobbin area? And will you oil, then go right on the customer's quilt, or "blot" it on a bobbin check scrap?

Thanks so much. It's great to have you on the forum!!!

[DawnCavanaugh]

Hi Marty,

I'll give your questions my best shot:

But...do you do tension checks with every thread change, or do you keep the type of thread the same, if possible, and check tension only if you change type, or can you change tension on the fly.

I DO try to keep the thread the same brand or type throughout a quilt. But, that's not always possible. After all this time as a quilter, I can pretty much go by "feel" based on how hard the top thread is to pull through the eye of the needle. (I know, that answer doesn't help much!)

AND how do you check tension when you do? I use a scrap in the margin of the batting and backing. Seems like when I don't is when I end up frogging.

I will also do as you suggest and test in the "margin" of the quilt. Sometimes I slip on a long narrow "quilt sandwich" off to the side of the quilt. One easy way to do this is to create a pair of "C-clamps" from an old cardboard batting tube. Cut the tube apart in about 1-foot sections. Now remove a 1 to 1-1/2" section of the cardboard along its LENGTH. You've created a cheap verson of a "Q-snap" frame clamp (make two) that you can use to quickly hold a small quilt sandwich to two of your rollers to do your tension checks.

AND how often do you oil the bobbin area? And will you oil, then go right on the customer's quilt, or "blot" it on a bobbin check scrap?

I only oil the bobbin area between every quilt so I don't get oil on anything. Blotting it and doing the bobbin check scrap is a good thing to do--it avoids changing your first stitches "gray" because they picked up oil from the bobbin (does that sound like experience talking?)

Hope that isn't clear as mud!

Dawn

[njquiltergirl]

Hi Dawn and all.

I appreciate your clear, detailed replies to all the questions here!

How do you handle a (safety) pin-basted quilt on the LA? How can we avoid or minimize the "magazine effect" of the rollers on a pinned quilt?

Also, a few questions about leaving a quilt pinned (in my case no zips) to the frame...

If the finishing is delayed, should the quilt be kept pinned on the rollers or stabilized then removed? Is just loosening the quilt tension enough? Is it OK to remove a partially quilted quilt?

Thanks very much!

Lisa

Liberty

[DawnCavanaugh]

Hi Lisa,

We're all glad to help!

If others are reading this and don't understand what the "magazine effect" is, it refers to how the quilt top, batting and backing shift at different rates as they are rolled on to the take up roller. In other words, imagine taking a magazine and holding it at the binding. Then roll up the magazine--notice how all the pages are staggered? That's what happens to the quilt on our frames since the top edge is secured with pins or basting, and why we need all that extra backing and batting.

As for the "already pin-basted" quilt, Lisa, my first preference is to just take all the pins out and load it normally. Now that's just my preference. Other quilters, (Pam Clarke among them, I believe) routinely pin baste the quilts before loading the quilts.

If the pins are going to stay in, first make sure there are enough of them to stabilize the quilt. The "rule of thumb" is that you should be able to put a closed fist on to the quilt top, and always have it touch a pin. This is about 4 inches apart (except for you dainty-handed ladies; mine are like sledge hammers:)).

Then my choice would be to pin the quilt to the frame using the backing only (attach it to the backing roller and the pick up roller). The entire quilt top would be "floating" even though it's pinned to the backing. Then I'd roll down to the center of the quilt and start quilting out from there, just like I would if I were working at a domestic machine. That would allow the quilt to shift as needed, in all directions, preventing tucks in the top. I'd leave the pins in place until the quilt was stabilized thoroughly, then I'd remove them as I went.

I'm sure there are other quilters out there who always baste their tops before loading. Hopefully they will chime in here.

As for the delay in finishing, I've left quilts on the frame for two weeks or more. Just move the quilting machine off the quilt, and relax the pressure on the rollers so the quilt isn't stretched taut, as you already do. Then pick up the batting off the floor if it is hanging down and lay it up on top of the quilt, and cover the quilt with an old sheet for protection.

It is OK to remove a partially quilted quilt. A long time ago in a land far, far away, I taught beginning long arm quilters in my home. Since I only have one machine (the same workhorse for 14 years) I often would have a quilt on the frame that wasn't quite complete before class day arrived.

So, I was faced with an "all nighter" or removing the quilt. Now, I used to be able to handle an all-nighter with no problem (but that was in college, and there was probably a big party involved...oops, did I say party? I meant studying...) but those days are long gone. Now if I need to get an incomplete quilt off the machine, I first make sure I've stabilized the sides with pins as I go (or you can machine baste--search for a thread on this for more info). Next, I stabilize the quilt as thoroughly as I can--SID between blocks, borders, etc. (You can actually use your safety pins and pin-baste the unfinished portion, too. I just prefer to do as much with quilting as I can.)

Finally, I go ahead and quilt the bottom border to lock it in place. Then, when the quilt needs to go back on the frame, I can use the pins I inserted in the borders to re-attach the quilt--in effect, I "turned" the quilt, and it's ready for me to do the side borders, and fill in the central areas that didn't get done the first time. Let me know if you need more clarification about pinning the sides. Hope this helps.

Have a great day!

Dawn

[DebFigved]

This thread is definitely a keeper to save in my Quilting Tips & Tricks file.

Too bad my hard drive crashed last month. I lost lots of them I had collected from APQS forums. Who would have thought my new computer's hard drive would crash within the year. I now back up regularly.

:cool:

[Lynne]

Wow, what an information-packed thread. Thanks Dawn, this goes into my binder.

Lynne in Ann Arbor

[njquiltergirl]

Dawn.

Thanks as always for your oh-so-clear explanations. How do you do it??!! I am sure you solved my pre-pin-basted quilting problems. I'll give it a shot. Thank you!

This chat group is the best.

Lisa

[qwltnldy]

WOW, I just found this fantastic explanation of a quilting "sequence" and it was awesome! I printed it out. I am wondering however, how to adapt those instructions to an applique quilt, where the applique is placed over a pieced background and spills out into borders, and stuff like that. The other sequence is great if you have individual blocks. Dawn, how would you handle something that isn't quite as cut and dried? I plan to still ditch the border, fill in border design, but after that, it is all a bunch of craziness in this quilt. It is the Roseville Pottery pattern done FUSIBLE. (yuk) I've probably done more research before starting this quilt than any other!

Robin Kinley

Vista, CA