tension problem or not?

[mountainmanda]

this is going to be difficult to describe, but i do not have a cable to connect my camera to the laptop to show you pictures of what is happening----so here it goes.

I am using prewound bobbin and So Fine for top thread. I am quilting fall leaves with an 'echo' of the leaf going block to block . The top thread only shows through on the backing at the points of the leaves.Otherwise, the tension is spot on. has this happened to any of you and if so how did you fix it!?!?!?!

[chickenscratch]

Manda, I have had mine make little dots on the backing when I change directions quickly. Is that what is going on? I'm not sure what causes it and it doesn't do it every time, but abotu every 5th quilt or so.

[ffq-lar]

Hi Manda--

Try backing off the bobbin tension a tad. If the rest looks good, don't tighten the top until you try loosening the bobbin.

Good luck--my last top was batiks and I had BL pale green in the bobbin and black Rheingold hi-sheen poly on top--you would think that is a recipe for disaster, but it all worked out!! Amazing machines, huh!!!????

[Bonnie]

Both Linda and Tersa are correct....when you change directions and move to fast it seems to do that....but with backing the bobbin off a bit and slowing down a bit at the sharp points you should see a big difference. Also I'm assuming that this is happening while you are in manual mode and not using the stitch regulator.

[mountainmanda]

i almost always use the SR. I am terrified to use manual mode, but do.

thanks for all your info i will try it today to see how it goes..

[Bonnie]

I guess you can outrun your SR as well as you can when in the manual mode.....hummmmmmmm let us know what happens when you hesitate a nanosecond before you switch directions.

[mountainmanda]

this is the outcome at the moment on bottom

[mrsbishwit]

Manda;

Yes it has happened to me before, the thing that worked for me is to tighten up my top tension some more and slow down when you are doing the pantos, especially at those points.

It is easy to do pantos that you know very well at fast speeds but the machine can't always keep up, lol BTW I also do every thing in stitch regulated mode.

Good Luck

[Grace]

My tension problems are on the bobbin thread sitting on top of the fabric, but only at certain areas. It is consistently when the machine moves the opposite direction. Logically, I could eliminate that problem by not moving the machine in that direction, however, in reality, there is no alternative. What makes the thread tension good sometimes, and not good other times. I have changed needles, slowed down, adjusted tention both top and bottom separately, changed threads, used different weights top and bottom. I'm not sure what else to do. I am currently frogging a very large quilt because of the insistant bobbin results.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[mrsbishwit]

Batting can also affect tension quality (when you get pokies either on the top or back of the quilts) the thinner the batt the harder it is to maintain the balancing act between top and bottom thread. If you are getting the pokies on the top of your quilt then you need to tighten up your bobbin tension, if the pokies are on the bottom of the quilt then you need to tighten up the top tension. It comes down to trial and error and ALOT of patience

[Myrna Ficken]

Manda, Tighten you top a bit an make sure you do not have have your sandwich too tight.

Myrna

[DawnCavanaugh]

Manda,

You've gotten lots of good advice already; here's one more tidbit to add:

When you come into a point and change directions, the needle flexes quite a bit. That quick "snap" as it flexes the other way can cause that tension problem.

Try switching to a larger needle to reduce the flex. You can also heed the other bits of advice:

[*] loosen the bobbin tension slightly

[*] slow down a bit when you enter and exit the point to give the needle a chance to "catch up"

[*] relax the fabric tension slightly

[*] tighten the top tension slightly after loosening the bobbin tension

Let us know how you turn out!

Dawn

[DawnCavanaugh]

Gracious,

Your tension question kind of got buried in this thread (oops-that's a pun, I guess !)

You asked, "What makes the thread tension good sometimes, and not good other times?"

Lots of culprits can cause tension troubles. But with the problem you describe about going in the opposite direction, the biggest reason is needle flex. Whenever you move the machine to the LEFT (when standing on the freehand side of the machine) or AWAY from yourself, the needle either gets to the "sweet timing spot" ahead of the hook or is pulled away from the hook.

The first "fix" is to use a larger, more sturdy needle. If you are using a 3.5, for example, then move up to a 4.0. The stiffer shank reduces flexing caused when the needle enters and exits the fabric. The flexing is increased if you move quickly in any direction.

Another "fix" is to increas the stitches per inch. If you have been in the "7 - 11" range for stitches, try moving it up to 12 or more. When the needle fires more often with the stitch regulator, it isn't traveling as great a distance when it makes each stitch, and the flexing is reduced.

If the fabric is too tight between the rollers, you'll also have the tension problem you describe. I often ask new students about their previous quilting experiences. If they machine quilted on their domestic sewing machines, did they put the fabric into a hoop? Of course they didn't. Even hand quilters who hooped their quilts admit that the fabric wasn't taut in the hoop or they wouldn't be able to rock the needle up and down to load stitches on the needle.

So, once a person gets a longarm machine with this terrific "quilting frame" (table), for some reason we all think that because we CAN make the quilt nice and taut, we actually SHOULD make the quilt taut.

That's one of the biggest mistakes new quilters make. Overtightening the fabric makes the surface like a drum skin. As the needle enters and exits the tight fabric, it flexes even more, and the scarf on the back of the needle causes the fabric to bounce up and down under the hopping foot.

The tight fabric compresses any air space the batting created, and the thread loses its place to "lock" in between the layers. The thinner the batting, the greater the impact.

Hopefully one of these remedies will reduce the problem you're having. Let us know how it goes!

Dawn

[chickenscratch]

Thanks Dawn and Myrna for those great tips. I'll try to remember all those next time I have problems.

[JAB]

Originally posted by chickenscratch

Thanks Dawn and Myrna for those great tips. I'll try to remember all those next time I have problems.

Yes, thank you both for those great tips. I print the really good tips I get from here and put them in those page protectors thingies and put them all in a binder. I have them all organized with dividers with sections for certain subjects.

[Grace]

Dawn,

Thank you so much. I have learned to loosen up on the table tension, and try to use a little thicker batting when possible. I have tried to use those newer titanium needles, but they didn't do so well for me earlier. Maybe I will try them again. Is it true they work better than the 'old fashioned' style needle? I just purchased a box of 100 of the other brand. But if the titanium are that much better, I will gladly purchase those instead. I do use the MR 3.5, so I'll try for the larger needle size. Will that size affect the timing of my machine?

I will try all the above suggestions. When my machine is 'good, she is very, very good, but when she is bad, she is horrid'!!

Thanks for your help.

Grace

[DawnCavanaugh]

Grace,

Many quilters have a love-hate relationship with the titanium needles. Your success depends largely in getting the right type for your machine, and where your timing is set.

When the titanium needles first became in vogue, APQS engineers tested them in the machines for wear, durability, stitch quality, etc. At that time, they discovered that the scarf is not as deep (the eye protrudes less from the front of the needle) as the Singer needles they used with the machines. The scarf was also in a slightly different position/length.

The result for them was erratic stitch quality, skipped stitches, and tension problems. Because the APQS machines are so closely "timed" to the needle, any variance in the needle will have a big impact on the stitch result. That "close timing" is actually what produces such a beautiful lock stitch in the first place.

So, unwilling to sacrifice stitch quality for a titanium needle's promise to "last longer and leave a smaller hole behind", APQS has stayed with the Singer industrial needles. (I personally tried the titanium needles a few years ago and couldn't get them to sew; admittedly, I threw them in the drawer and haven't touched the box since. I'm sure improvements/changes have been made since then, but I don't have a problem with the Singer needles so I've just never given them a second chance. Several quilters love them.)

Your machine was "timed" to a 4.0 needle, so when you use a 3.5, you're using a smaller diameter needle. As such, the shaft will flex more (resulting in the directional tension issue you've got) and will increase the air space between the needle and hook. On a few occasions, you may notice a skipped stitch with a 3.5 going around a circle, or moving the machine away from you. The faster you move, the more impact that will have on your tension.

Try switching back to a 4.0 and see what happens with your tension. When I use a thicker thread or even a cotton thread (cotton "drags" more and will increase the flexing problem) a 4.0 or even a 4.5 will really help.

Keep us posted to see if one of these suggestions helps!

Dawn

[Grace]

Thanks, Dawn. I really appreciate your interest in my problem. I will take your advice very seriously and invest in some larger needles. If that will fix the majority of the problem, I will be one happy quilter.

I am currently ripping out a very large quilt where the bobbin went awry.

Thanks again.

Grace

[mountainmanda]

still working on it! one stitch at a time!:cool:

I will post pictures when i am FINALLY done.

[Grammie]

Did you get your tension problem resolved.

Always do your bobbin TEST before adjusting it. In most cases it is your top tension.

I like to see my bobbin thread as a speck on the top. I mean a very tiny speck if I have to choose. I hate my top showing on the bottom.

Also I know you like to wind your bobbins. The bobbin case usually needs adjusting as you will see in the bobbin test when you go from metal wound to prewound. I rarely wound my own bobbins. Also use a business card or something soft (not metal ) and make sure you don't have a tiny thread ball in your bobbin.

I LOVE PREWOUND BOBBINS And so many more colors to choose from these days.

[mountainmanda]

Grammie I LOVE U!

this bobbin is presound and the test came out perfect-for my machine. I believe that the inexpensive backing and batting that the customer gave with this top is the culprit behind all this. and I just need to have patience. You know that I am not real good in that department.

[mountainmanda]

he he he i typed preSound he he he