How can you tell what you're getting before you buy it?

[ncutt]

I downloaded an E2E design that showed up on my CQ as a motif. I thought, no prob, I will change it through AutoSketch and then the DXF to CQ program.

No, I wouldn't. I only had the CMD file.

I emailed the designer, naturally she was out of town until that day. I had promised the quilt to the customer the next day. She replied early the next morn. Didn't see anything wrong on her side, she said, but recompiled it and resent. Sometimes files get corrupted in sending or downloading.

I reloaded it in my CQ and it was fine. Although I did notice one spot with a hump that I didn't really like, especially since the background on this quilt was white, and I was using varigated thread.

So, I email her when I get done, thanking her for her quick response and asking if I could get the DXF file also. Thinking I could of had this quilt done last night, and I can fix that little blip that shows up every repeat for the next time I use the design. Why does it alway happen to be on the white fabric?? Murphy's law, I guess.

She emails me promptly back and says, Sorry, I do not release my DXF files but I am happy to fix any files.

I would really feel like a putz to ask her to fix one tiny blip. Most people probably won't notice it.

Needless to say, I emailed back saying, I was sorry but I will be buying my designs elsewhere. And if I wanted to "steal" a design it would be easy even without the DXF file. Without the DXF files, the designs are limited.

I guess I will have to ask before I buy in the future, but what is the big deal? Without a DXF file or WMF file (do you think I would have any luck asking for that?) I can't print out a layout of the design, or record how I have used that design in different sizes or on different quilts.

AM I ASKING FOR TOO MUCH????

[Stagecl]

I feel that the designer should send the DFX. If the designer will send the WMF you can put that into autosketch and create a DFX. No...I don't think you were asking for too much.

Cheryl

[Nadia Wilson]

Hi Norma,

You know I was having this conversation with Suzanne Moreno just the other day. I do not think you are asking for too much, quite contrary, I think all computerized quilters are asking too little! The sad part is that most new or beginner computerized quilters do not know what questions to ask or even exactly how their system works yet and some information they find on the internnet is not quite telling all of the story. Now that I have used my system for over a year and I have learned how to digitize with my Autosketch program, I understand why some of the features were included with my system and why digital designs have to be digitzed properly for CQ systems in order for them to work in our systems. I have a Millie with CQ. The other equally as sad part is that some designers out there have NO idea how the features in our CQ systems work, so how can they sell us designs that can possible use all the features in our CQ's for us to use?

It boils down to education. What I have learned to do is this.....if the designer does not state on their website that they will send the .cmd AND .dxf or.wmf file with an order for CQ users, I email them and ask them if they will, explaining the features I have available in my system and why I need the wmf or dxf file. If they respond and say sure I'll send you what you need I put their website in my links to make future purchases from. If they respond and question why I need it I reply and explain why, most times, some after some back and forth emailing (educating) they agree to send what I want. Some designers don't want to part with their other files, that's okay with me too, because then I don't part with my money...I find a designer who will accommodate all our features. If a designer states right on their website they send only the .cmd file, I don't even look at the rest of their site because I will never buy from them..why should I when I wouldn't be able to use my $30,000 system with their file??? Buyer Beware. Because I have been longarming for a few years and totally immersed in computersized quilting I kind of have some knowledge of which system (statler, CQ, Intelliquilter, etc) some of the designers own and use. I am becoming more leary of buying designs from a designer that does not own CQ simply because if they do not know how CQ works they can't possibly know all the features available to us and digitize properly for us. By the way, there are a number of really good CQ owner designers who design for CQ...I've used their designs in my system without any problems, and the results excellent! I am tending to purchase more and more of my designs from them...and guess what?...if you are looking for something, tell them what you need digitized and they'll do it for you!

Good question Norma.

[Bonnie]

I'm just guessing here as I haven't yet ventured into the CQ world, but am wondering if they are thinking similarly to that of a digitizer that does only embroidery work.

When I would digitize an embroidery design I would sell the finished design in any format you needed or wanted, BUT I would not give you the working design.....if I did that I would be selling my control over the design....if I gave that to you regardless if there were errors in the finished design or not...and you changed it over 35% then you could proclaim it as your original design and I would loose the profit on that design.

Like I said I'm just wondering if that's where these people are coming from and yes with your education they will understand why you need to be able to manipulate and tweek it for your personal needs, and have no intentions of reselling their design.

[Darlene Epp]

Good advice Nadia. Yes, there are several digitizers that design with CQs features in mind. I'm just one of them. At the moment I believe CQ is the only system that will do a "true" turning corner. The new APQS QuiltStudio will also have this feature.

You can buy separate corners and borders from Statler designers, but they do NOT work the same for CQ users as they do not follow our "rules" for corners and you end up with a "motif" that is very difficult, if not impossible, to line up between the borders. They also use a different "scale" when digitizing and I've had to resize every pattern I've bought from a Statler designer, as they come into the system either MUCH smaller or MUCH larger than normal.

Having a good knowledge of AutoSketch, or another drawing program that will accept a DXF file that you can edit is a great advantage, but if the designer won't send you a DXF or WMF, then you're out of luck and have to use the pattern as it's sent.

I send the cqp & wmf and all the other machine formats with my patterns. I like the wmf because I can give you several different layout options and suggestions for use along with an editable file, as well as it being a printable page for your pattern binder.

Computerized quilting ROCKS! And my back says "thank you" every night! I am now digitizing my favorite "Textures & Fillers" to get freehand effects without the pain.

I also love to do "Collections", where you have all the components you may need for a quilt in one coordinating set; Allovers, Fillers, Borders with Corners, little Sashings, Blocks &/or Wreaths. Sure makes the design process easier if I don't have to look through hundreds/thousands of patterns trying to find designs that will work together.

My latest collection is called Feather Flower. I'm still working on the Filler Triangle, but the rest of the patterns are done and I've already customized a couple of the blocks for a customer that loved the look, but had specific dimensional piecing she needed to avoid.

http://www.trilliumhousedesigns.com/DIGIFeatherFlower.htm

[smorris]

Hi Darlene

Any chance you can send a 'closer up" of that pic, it looks gorgeous, - can't wait to see your textures and fillers designs. How did you do the continuous curve - CQ or handguided.

Best wishes

sue in australia

[JoAnnHoffman]

If you have Pro-Q software you could open the cmd file and fix it or change it and resave in cqp or dxf or any other format.

http://www.compuquilterdesigns.com/autosketch.htm

[Darlene Epp]

Hi Sue,

Here's a close up. And the Continuous Curve is done with the CQ too. I've done a set of 9 different 1,4,9 Patch designs. They're under the Collections category.

[Darlene Epp]

Here's the 1,4,9 Patch Twist.

[Darlene Epp]

And the coordinating Feather Flower Border #1 with Corner.

[mestuart]

This is a great topic, one day I would like to get into the computerized quilting.. In the meantime, reading is education. Thank you ladies for sharing.

[ncutt]

Thanks for listening. I think I have collected myself. I suppose she thinks she is "protecting" her design. And, yes, Bonnie, Bernina, Viking, and all the different embroidery sewing machines had their own software, BUT, they finally saw the light and went multi format. A person can still take a machine embroidery design and with a software program, add or remove parts of the design or add or remove stitches.

My thinking is for the $15 or $20 dollars, it is not worth it to digitize my own design. Especially when I have quilts to do. I would rather pay for something I like.

If I wanted to sell designs, I certainly wouldn't take an exact design or something close and try to market it. I think most people realize what this would do to their reputation. But, gee, how many designs out there have daisies or feathers that look alot alike???? I don't think these people "stole" ideas from each other. I mean, there are stars, feathers, stars, and how many elements to quilt designs does Sally Terry say there is? I think most digitized designs are made with the three point arc or the fitted curve, anyway.

Does anyone have a list of who gives the DXF files? I know Digi Tech does.

Thanks for listening.

[ncutt]

BEAUTIFUL, Darlene!

Do you send the DXF file???:P

Think I will have to order those!

Thank you, JoAnn. I have looked into Pro-Q before. May have to do it, again!

[Darlene Epp]

Hi Norma,

I haven't been including the DXF file, but do include a WMF. Sometimes more than one, showing different layout options. There are several different dxf file formats, and some systems seem to like one more than the other. If you have a Statler, MY dxf file is no good to you unless you know how to add the macros. Statler designers also use a different scale when digitizing, so there are differences all way round in how designers use the tools and which DXF they save it as. If a customer wants the DXF file, I will send it, but it's not automatically included, except in the IQ format. Most customers don't have a clue what to do with it, and that just creates more phone calls and e-mails.

I certainly won't withhold it from customers that want it tho'.

[digisuz]

I don’t think the answer to the issue being discussed should be that we have to buy expensive ($525.00) additional software like Pro-QD in order to have an editable file. The designer is supposed to provide the additional file with our stitch file, or just provide a dxf file that we can use to create layout files and stitch files. We can do this all with AutoSketch which often comes with your computerized system as it’s been used to digitize a majority of the designs being sold.

There are two major things going on . . . some of what is occurring has been mentioned here. Very likely a designer who owns a certain computerized system will not know all the program features of other computerized systems, and therefore how we each execute a design. While this doesn’t create a problem in many cases where we are all using basic motifs and repeatable designs, it can cause confusion and havoc when we get into other categories of designs. We have not standardized how we categorize various types of designs in computerized quilting, and we will be getting into greater areas of custom computerized quilting. The techniques can require advanced digitizing and editing procedures, and a knowledge of how the features of a computerized system work to execute the design. We will see more and more projects that can be done with longarm computerized systems too. Once a design is drawn and edited (digitized) a file is prepared for conversion to a stitch file for each computerized system. How that file (the dxf) is prepared can vary to accommodate the program and features of the system that will be used to stitch the design. Once we venture into interlocking repeatable designs, corners with matching borders, multi-part designs that relate to each other, and other more advanced design layouts and concepts, we have different ways we prepare files so the design is easily executed with our features. It’s important to remember that digitizing designs and the features built into a computerized quilting system to stitch the designs are two separate subjects and learning areas.

Added to the above is the fact that not all designers realize that we need/use a wmf, and in lieu of that we can use a dxf to create our own wmf. Either they just don’t know this, or they know it and choose not to provide a wmf or dxf (editable file) along with the stitch file. Here’s where something else is going on. When I got my CompuQuilter, and for a time thereafter, when a designer contacted CQ to inquire about our conversion program and how they would go about providing designs for CQ, they were sent a designers packet that would include our stitch file conversion program and an information letter directly from Stan and Dee Dee about how CQ’s program utilizes a wmf. Whenever I placed my first order from a designer I would call them and chat about how we used a wmf as well. For a long time I never had a problem with them sending either a wmf or dxf with the stitch file. All was well until some of them got concerned about how their designs could be altered. Last year, a well known designer revised her website to announce that she would only provide stitch files that were encrypted to run on a specific system only. From there, we have seen more designers that will only sell an encrypted file and not provide any other files. These files can ONLY be opened in CQ’s executable program, not even in our Demo program, or Pro-QD. When these designers do offer another file, it is typically a PDF or jpeg showing an illustration of the design.

This is disturbing because it greatly diminishes our creative outlets as quilters. We are artistic and creative people, and we like to try many different design ideas. This is a fundamental activity for quilters and its part of our fun and the work we do for the quilts we quilt. We can’t be cut off from being able to audition designs, or layout designs to see how various elements work together. I want to create my own design layouts based on individual quilt projects. While I appreciate layout ideas from a designer, they can’t possibly think of every way we may want to use a design. If the designer hasn't included certain aspects in the dxf or stitch file that I need or want to use my system features, then I want to access the design to make those changes and get what I paid for. It is for these reasons I will not spend my money on a design if it does not come with an editable file.

As for a designer’s concern about how designs could be altered. That’s getting out of hand and it may get worse before it gets better. If you’re a trained digitizer, you learn to layout, draw AND edit designs for computerized quilting systems . . . . for that matter, hasn’t that been true for all quilters? Hasn’t every type of quilter been able to draft, plan out and make adjustments to their quilting designs . . . adding personal styles, talents and artistic license? Just because we express ourselves with computerized quilting, we shouldn’t be restricted from activities enjoyed and utilized by every other type of quilter. It isn’t new that we can use AutoSketch and other programs to edit designs . . . . so why the new concern? It’s silly because all the longarm computerized systems have features and will continue to add features that enable the user to edit and manipulate designs in various ways. If a designer has an inflexible attitude and will not respond to the needs and requests from those who buy their designs, they may jeopardize their income streams.

I would hate to see more talented designers jump on the bandwagon to censor and restrict the use of designs. Like my good friend Grammie Tammie says, “We’re not just monkeys with a longarm machine”. That’s well said, Grammie . . . we’re quilt artists. We want to decide how and where to use the designs we purchase or learn from pro quilters, and we want to combine those with our own ideas.

Darlene . . . . your designs are beautiful and very nicely done. Congratulations on continuing to expand the designs you offer.

Warm Regards to Everyone,

Suzanne Moreno, Digitizing Instructor

Author: Digitizing with AutoSketch

Course Book and Lessons

Grants Pass, Oregon

cqdigi@charter.net

541.660.8053

[ncutt]

Thanks, Darlene.

I have a CQ, a DXF would be nice. a WMF is fine.

[Grammie]

If you know Autosketch and the rules of your CQ and the designer gives you an Editable file any corner design you purchase can be a TRUE corner because once you know your concepts you can make any purchased design work for your CQ because an editable file will give you the ability to make the design work for CQ rules.

It's NO problem with Knowledge. Learn the Concepts of Digitizing, Learn your Computerized System. It will give you power and control on what direction your Quilting Business Goes. You don't have to be a prisoner to available designs by designers who do no give you what you need to be creative with your PURCHASED designs. Again Many designers are not worried at all and offer what we need as computerized quilters. They care. I continue to purchase from those designers. I value their copyright and always will.

I WILL NOT PURCHASE ENCRYPTED designs and if you choose to that is your right but it is bad for computerized quilters unless an editable file is also provided. Which doesn't make any ....... duhhhh

I have PRO Q but it will not OPEN Encrypted designs.

Darlene your designs are lovely.

Hugs to you all

PS. I must say I believe it was Nicole Webb who truley said this but I will stand corrected. I read it somewhere. I really like the statement and use is often. "We are more than monkeys with a longarm"

Grammie

[KarenT]

I just saw this thread and wanted to respond. Intelligent Quilting includes the the Statler, CQ, IQ, PC Quilter and Handi Quilter formats plus the wmf file. We do not include the dxf but are more than willing to supply it if anyone asks.

Karen Thompson

www.IntelligentQuilting.com

[ncutt]

Thank you, Karen. It's nice to know. I actually just made an order from you!

[Grammie]

AWESOME Karen.

Thanks for sharing that.

[Darlene Epp]

Trillium House Designs includes the following formats in every pattern order:

CQP (CompuQuilter)

QLI (Statler)

IQP (DXF for Intelliquilter)

MQR (Machine Quilting Robot)

HQF (HandiQuilter)

TXT (PC Quilter)

WMF (Windows Meta File)

The DXF for the Intelliquilter could be used as an editable file by any of the formats.

Back to working on my new website, complete with shopping cart and downloadable files! BOY, this is a lot of work! Hubby can't wait for it to be done! I haven't yet clued him into the fact that it will never be "done"! LOL :cool:

[digisuz]

Way to Go . . . . Darlene Epp, Karen Thompson and the gang at Intelligent Quilting. These are the designers with the right attitude about customer service . . . so, guess what? these are the kind of designers who will get orders for designs ! We appreciate YOU ! Thank you for respecting your customers.

- Suzanne Moreno, Digitizing Instructor

Digitizing with AutoSketch Book and Lessons

Grants Pass, Oregon

cqdigi@charter.net

541.660.8053

[egilmore]

This has been a great thread! As a CQ dealer I get many phone calls about purchased designs that 'act funny' when sewing. Usually the design is created in a Statler format and has quirks that won't work with our CQ rules. I think enough has been said explaining that so I only want to add this.

I am presently taking Suzanne Moreno's Digitizing class. I am learning that AS isn't as difficult as I perceived it to be under Suzanne's guidance. This is an amazingly powerful program that all of us can master if shown the way. Thank you Suzanne for developing this user friendly class and I look forward to creating designs in the future.

I own Pro Q, Pre Design and of course AS, all good programs. But it won't matter what your software is if the designs are encrypted. They won't open.

I too agree that having the ability to use the skf and wfm files is imperative for us as quilters. I remember in my early years as a quilter I took a Linda Taylor class and she showed us how to take paper patterns and 'adjust' them by folding, cutting and turning them to accommodate our quilting needs!!! Duh, I need to have that same freedom with a digitized design to create the end result I am looking for. Quilters have done this with quilting designs long before we decided we were the first to create the designs. (Was Linda Taylor breaking copyright rules?)

This may be a challenging question, but do we really think we are the first to dream up these various designs? I don't think so. I believe we all know that generations of our quilting sisters and brothers have produced these designs for hundreds of years in one form or another. We are only adjusting what already exists forever to fit our computerized needs.

If I altered a design for use on my or a clients quilt am I really infringing on that designer? If the designer took me to court would a judge declare the design was 'owned' by anyone today when presented with quilting works in history books of past generations? Could we all be barking up a non existing tree? I'm not professing to know the law, just trying to think with some common sense.

Please understand I am not in anyway poo-pooing the wonderful work our designers do. Nor am I saying we should steal their designs and try to profit from them!!! I truly respect their work and there service to the LA industry. I am only trying to make the point that holding back editable files may be cutting ones nose to spite ones face.... Remember when Hari Walner put on her paper designs that they could only be used for a personal quilt and not reproduced on quilting for sale. LA quilters stopped buying them. She wasn't helping us serve our clients, plain and simple. Pattern designers who encrypt their designs and refuse us editable files may find themselves with few to purchase their goods. I guess the choice is theirs.

OK, enough...usually I just read with interest. Today I soap-boxed. I like most of us would not take and alter a pattern that belonged to another, call it mine and profit from it, but I expect to be able to use a pattern that I have purchase and own to work for my quilting needs and have the editable files to do it. Thanks everyone! Great thread!

Happy Sunday

[TinaCollins]

Hi Elaine!! Good to see you posting!!!

[egilmore]

Thanks Tina! This is a very good forum for CQ users. You all have done a good job with it. I usually just read and don't speak I know, those who know me may find my not speaking hard to believe. but it's true.