David Jones Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 I hope this will help you as i have found it to be the case in may service calls i make, tension rules i use are as follows, if the bobbins tension is right all your adjustments are made on the top. the one thing i found though is batting plays a very important role in the whole picture, if the batting is not consistant in its thichness this will have a direct effect on your pokies, loose threads top and bottom etc. some battings are just not of the quality they should be, even a thin batting that is produced correctly will work excellently, but one that is cheap is just that, next time you are having a battle with your machine try a quality batting, the consistancy of the batting will allow the threads to mate up in the middle with out problems which tend to appear as tension driven. if you need any help with this give us call we'd be happy to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Geary Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thank you for this advice. However, I have been struggling with a different tension problem that even APQS hasn't been able to solve. My tension problem is directional. When I move the machine to the left, the top stitches poke through to the back, and when I move to the right the bobbin threads poke through to the top. This includes diagonals as well. I have spent many hours with practice quilts and can get the tension perfect going front to back but as soon as I move left or right there is a problem. I have tried all the suggestions given by fellow longarm quilters and by APQS service manager. Nothing works. I have batting in the first guide above the thread to help it release more evenly. I have cleaned and oiled the bobbin assembly and have cleaned the bobbin case. I have checked the timing again and again. New needles don't make a difference. I have tried changing threads, also putting finer thread in the bottom than in the top. I have tried same thread top and bottom and thicker thread in bottom than in top. I have a tension meter for the bobbin. Fellow quilters tell me to use between 20 and 25. APQS advised me to use 15 to 18. None of the above has worked to solve the problem. Any ideas? Thanks, Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue in Australia Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hi Pam Sorry to hear you are having problems. This is what I would try. Take out the needle and then replace it making sure that the long groove is directly in front of you - not to the side even a fraction. If the timing is correct the machine is set up to produce the very best stitch/tension quality with the groove straight ahead. If this doesn't help, could you have any rough spots on your hook assembly, sometimes this can happen if a needle has jammed. Re-check your bobbin tension - I like my metal bobbin to drop 4-5" with a polyester/cotton thread weight 120. I would put on a practice wad and with the top tension rather looser than you think is right start to do loops and circles and short diagonal lines to test tension. Gradually adjust the top tension until you achieve a stitch you feels looks good. I am assuming you have a Millennium but if you have any of the non stitch regulated machines perhaps you could think about your 'flow' when moving the machine. Hope this helps - let us know Sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carla Riley Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hello Pam. I just thought I'd put in my two-cents worth also. I agree with the information posted by Sue Morris but I had a couple of other ideas as well. Sometimes when you get those directional tension problems it is right in the area where you are doing the changing of direction. The reason this happens is that there is a direction that the machine perceives as the "right way" and there is a direction that the machine perceives as the "wrong way." Going from the right way to the wrong way too quickly can cause some of those little issues too. Definitely double-check that bobbin tension like Sue said. I like 4 to 6 inches of drop with a prewound and more with a metal bobbin. Sue runs hers a little bit tighter than I do, but between her and I we've at least given you a few options to try with this adjustment. Feel free to call me if you need some help when you're testing, adjusting and stitching, etc. I'll be happy to offer some advice over the telephone. I've always thought that "yo-yo" test is the best way to evaluate bobbin tension. Then pay a little more attention to exactly when your problems are occurring. Chances are, you're having problems when stitching (at the freehand side) from right to left. That is the "wrong way" according to the machine. That doesn't mean that we can't stitch in that direction however. What you need to do is just slow your motion just a little bit when making that switch from the right direction to the wrong direction. Its usually right in that little "U-turn," for lack of a better term, that you find these issues. This will take some effort from you to remember to slow that motion a bit right in those spots but before long it will become second nature and you won't even think about it anymore. And you may find that re-evaluating your bobbin tension according to the advice Sue and I offered might clear it up for the most part. I'll be anxious to see how things progress for you, so be sure to post later and let us know how it is going and if you still need a little help with it. We're always happy to hop on here and help whenever we can! I really hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie hurst Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hi Pam, I will try to help also. Make sure your tension of your fabric is not to tight. If it is that can cause problems. How old is your machine? Make sure you don't have any little burrs in your pigtail guides or in the check spring! If you run the thread around on the inside of them you can usually feel them. The timing shouldn't really be affecting your tension. If you try all of these things and nothing works, then we need to try a new bobbin case and maybe a new tension control. Give me a call and we can work on what we need to send you. Connie Apqs Service Mgr/tech support 1-800-426-7233 ext. 6;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Geary Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Thanks to those of you who offered advice. I have tried the tension in the bobbin at every suggested setting. I have also tried adjusting the top thread gradually from loose to tight with tests in between. No success. The problem doesn't occur just when changing directions. I can be stopped on a practice quilt and go right to left at an easy pace and the top thread shows on the bottom. If I am stopped and go left to right the bobbin thread shows on the top. So there is a problem in either direction. It also happens when I am doing pantographs from the back side of the machine. I have checked the needle a thousand times to make sure it is in correctly with the groove exactly in the front. I have checked and re-checked this info on the APQS video to make sure I'm doing it correctly. I have tried new needles to make sure there isn't a burr. I have checked and re-checked the hook assembly for burrs, as well as all the thread guides. I have checked for burrs on the throat plate. I even bought a new bobbin case from APQS and this hasn't helped. I have loosened the quilts to make sure I'm not rolling them too tight. This hasn't helped either. I put batting in the thread guide directly above the thread spool to help the thread pull off more consistently. I have tried turning the thread spool over as a fellow quilter suggested that it sometimes helps. I have tried using different threads. I have tried using smaller thread in the bobbin. I have tried using same thread top and bottom. Still no success. I have tried every bit of advice offered. I don't know what to do next. I appreciate that you are willing to help by phone and I will probably call as soon as I get the time. Thanks, Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrogers Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi Pam Is your tension check spring set correctly? Perhaps it could use some adjusting. Mine is set it it's relaxed postiion at about 11 o'clock and when making a stitch moves down to about 9 o'clock. If it does not move freely you could move it away from the side of the machine a tad with an allen wrench. You could also adjust the backlash spring inside the bobbin case. I made these adjustments on my machine and have such a pretty stitch that it brings tears to your eyes! Best of luck, please keep us informed and holler if I can help you further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrogers Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hi Pam Got to thinking about my reply and felt I should clarify how I adjusted my backlash spring in the bobbin case. There are 2 tags inside, if you pull them open a teenie tiny bit they will apply more pressure to the bobbin. A tiny, tiny bit is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Hi Pam, Was reading all the posts about your problem. Another thing to try is lowering your hopping foot. We like about a 2 buisness card thickness at the lowest position(distance between the foot and the needle plate). You may want to check this and see, and set it to 1 buisness card thickness from the plate. If your foot is too high this will cause problems with stitching and tensions. I also see that you have an Ult. 1, you want to make sure that you are regulating your stitch size. As you change directions, many times going one way is easier than another. So if our stitches get too big, than that will cause a loose stitch...we like to see 9-11 stitches per inch. I hope this helps..we may try and give you a call to be able to talk to you personally about this so we can get the problem resolved. Good luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue in Australia Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hi Pam I just wondered about the position of your three hole guide which is just above the tension knob. It should be pointing at 8 o clock so that the thread can cover the maximum area in between the tension discs. I usually thread the three hole guide, put the thread between the discs and give a little tug upwards to make sure the thread is seated correctly. Sue in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Geary Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Dave, Thanks for your advice re: my thread problems. I have tried many different batts from high loft to "Warm and Natural" cotton blends since my customers usually choose their own batting. I have had the problem regardless of which batt is used. Which batt do you recommend? I'm willing to try anything to make this work. Thanks a bunch. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie hurst Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Hi Pam, Are you still having the same tension problems? If you could give e-mail me or call, or let me know your phone # and I will get ahold of you.. We want to help you get up and running, so let me know how to get ahold of you.. Thanks Connie Apqs Service churst@apqs.com 1-800-426-7233 ext. 6:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lois A. B. Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hello Pam, I am a Millenium owner (1 Yr) and I am having exactly the same problem you are experiencing. When at the front of the machine, stitching is fine on the top in all directions. However, on the bottom, stitches are fine when travelling left to right, but when travelling right to left they are quite poor. The bottom thread looks like a line and top thread is visible on bottom. I have tried absolutely everything for this....I just can't shake it. I have had the problem for about 6 weeks now and it is seriously effecting my business. I can definitely sympathize with you. Has anyone actually had this problem before and fixed it?? If so....please do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hi Lois, Make sure that your bobbin tension is set correct first. You should have a 3-4 inch drop doing the yo-yo test with a prewound and 6-8 inch drop with the metal. If your bobbing tension is too tight, it will not let your top tension "draw" up the threads to give you that nice looking stitch. If you still have problems, please contact us @ (800)426-7233 ext. #6 Good luck. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lois A. B. Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Hi Mark...thanks for your reply....the bottom tension has been at every setting possible as well as the top tension. I have been reading everything Pam has tried and I have done all those things myself over the past few weeks.....I hear her frustrastion because I am there too. I do not have the problem on the top however. Over the past year I have had a beautiful stitch but just into the new year the problem started. I can't pin-point on any one thing. I thought at first it may have been caused by hitting a template but it doesn't matter how often I time and retime the machine ...it persists. I have checked and rechecked the thread path. The APQS rep from this area came to help and the stitch was better but the problem is not gone. I am getting quite discouraged. I have made an appointment with the Bernina technician in this area for this afternoon, as he says he has timed longarms before. I will let you know if he is able to help. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrogers Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Hi Lois If you hit a template, you could have knocked the bobbin retaining finger out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Burns Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 HI, This is my first posting. I am also having problems with my tension...(actually the machine is causing me tension.) The top thread is showing in the bottom. I have read through many of these postings about the "right" way and the "wrong" way of turning the machine...Makes things a bit difficult. Also, how do I adjust the timing? How do I know if it is a timing problem? I have the Millenium...Have had it since january, and am "struggling." Does anybody live in Washington? Can you suggest a tech that comes to me? Also, any classes on maybe doing some of the tech myself... Thanks, Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyL Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Karen: Not sure about a tech in Washington but APQS has a maintenance video that covers *everything*. I think it sells for about $35 but I could be wrong. It has detailed instructions on the video for timing the machine. If you don't have this video, you might want to check into getting it. In my opinion, we all need to know how to fix things that go wrong with these machines without having to depend on or pay someone else to do it. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrogers Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Hi Karen I love in Washington and am happy to help you if I can. Please call me at 206 878-4720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyShoup Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 I had a directional tension problem. Here is what caused mine. I had been quilting some very heavy seams. My hopping foot somehow got raised on the left side of the foot higher than the right side. I could slide 5 business cards under the left side and only 2 on the right. I loosened the hopping foot, CENTERED it perfectly with the needle, and the tension problem was solved. Evidently going to the left I was puching the fabric, and going to the right I was pulling the fabric. Check to see if you hopping foot is centered and at the correct height for the quilt you are working on. Vicky Shoup;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Try using Aurifil thread!! It has nearly eliminated any directional tension problems. I've gotten to where I hate using my other threads because I know I will have a tension battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 I'm new to this board but find it very helpful. Boy have I had the tension troubles too. The only way I have got mine to look fairly decent (although not perfect) is to have the bobbin tension so loose that it will slide down if held by the thread and the top tension is so tight that it feels like the thread will break. I tried everything else, and I mean everything. I still don't feel that this is correct but it is the only thing that is working so I'm using it. Maybe this idea will help someone. Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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