Signature thread-loops on back

[mmm]

Help! I read several hours worth of postings and tried everything I can think of, nothing seems to help. I have a APQS Freedom, Bottom line in the Bobbin and signatue thread on top. I have really been working on this thread tension problem with this thread for about 4 weeks. I spoke with APQS, then Dawn when I first started to have this problem. the last quilt I just switched threads so I could complete it. I can use Rainbow Superior threads on top with no problem, I can also use the bottom line on the top and bottom, no problems. But anything like King Tut or Singature or just Mettler machine quilting thread, and I have such problems.

I got the tension to look good now on both sides, but it is looping at the corners, (not every one, just some) and a loop on the back every so often even with straight lines. I have tried both 4.0 and 4.5 needles, the batting in the back riding on top of the thread through the thread guide.....netting over the cone of thread....turning the eye of the needle to 6:35 instead of 6:30. The bobbin thread is very loose,and top thread very tight, but tensions looks good except for the loops. have cleaned the bobbin casing, changed bobbins, and the thread is running through the thread guides, up, down and up, so it is like a straight line. I have tried the thread on top and on the back of the machine. I have tried stitch regulated and not. I do have 2 extra pig tails, but have not put them on, as not sure how to attatch them. The funny thing is I have had my machine for 2 years, and have used signatue and Mettler thread about 15 times with no problem, not sure why all of a sudden I can't get it. Very Frustrating.....I am almost ready to change threads again, but I should be able to use the threads I want and get this figured out. Any suggestions???

[jmcclannan]

Are you using a "spool" thread holder. I like Mettler too but I have to use my horizontal spool holder. I can't fee from the back.

[quiltmonkey]

Yes, I have a suggestion that will work because it worked for me!

Basic answer: your thread is too loose on top.

Question: Did you have the top thread running through all three hole guide (just prior to the tension disk)? If not, then it needs to be through all three holes. This really REALLY helps to control the tension before it gets to the the disk tensioner.

I normally set my bobbin so it drops very gradually and slowly under it's own weight (kinda like a spider dropping down on a web). After you have the bobbin adjusted, tweak your top thread tension. I was having the intermittent loopies on back too when using King Tut and Signature and Valdani but after I tried adjusting using all three holes that seemed to fix it. Good luck! Let us know if that worked for you. It did for me.

[Sandra Darlington]

Shana...How did you run your thread through the three holes? Like a running stitch, or like you were hemming something (can't think of the name of that stitch just now). I often have the same problem.

Also, when you're using Tutt, what do you use in your bobbin? I was using So Fine and had problems with the Tutt.

[borealisboogie]

mmm,,,,your not alone

I have been experiencing what I am guessing but sounds like its the same problem, and my machine is a Lenni.

It started out with ruler work doing straight lines on a Frank Lloyd Wright quilt of mine, with small loopies here and there, and has since escalated to the quilt on the frame at the moment, (silver moment here; am guessing it may be with the same spool of Tutt thread as well) which now is creating rather large intermitant beehives on the back and small loopies here and there. Everything looks great when I first get going, so one thinks problem is solved, only to discover as I advance through the quilt, I am back to square one. I have also tightened top tension to the point of thread breakage and started backing tension off, but still with no luck. This has been with King Tutt on top, Bottom Line and/or So Fine in the bobbin.

There has never been a glitch like this before, with this combination in the past (my fav combo), now it all seems to be a problem. I have tried threading combinations that I could think of to no avail as well, today am about to try where the cone of thread is spooling off, but have been hesitant to try again, had enough of 'frogging' to this point, especially since its not my quilt .

Question: Where on the machine should the cone/spool holder be postioned?

Will attempt this today and hold tongue in right cheek and bite down and pray this works LOL

Any other ideas/suggestions would be appreciated here also.

TIA-

Frustrated Deb

[jmcclannan]

I've put my horizontal spool holder on top just behind the 3 hole guide and it's working fine there. I know others have theirs a bit closer to the front.

[DawnCavanaugh]

mmm,

Sorry to hear the Signature still is not cooperating. Here's another thing to check:

If the "check spring" right next to the tension disk (the little U-shaped wire) is catching on the machine housing, has lint trapped at its base or has lost its "spring" then it can cause occasional loops as the thread tugs on the spring.

Make sure the bottom of the "U" is positioned at about 11:00 at its resting place, and then pulls down to 8:00 or so when you pull the thread.

In my experience, when you get an occasional loop on the top, it's either a top tension issue or a needle issue. I know we talked about needles, but are you using a Singer or another brand? If the hook happens to pass too high on the needle's scarf on the back, then you can also have issues.

Keep me posted.

Deb,

Have you tried an MR 4.5 needle with the King Tut, and the "weaving" technique through the three-hole thread guide above the tension disks? Try using a shorter stitch length as well (11-12) since the needle will fire more often, taking smaller bites and dragging less on the fabric as it moves from stitch to stitch (this helps reduce needle flex caused by the thicker, coarse thread which also increases the chance of pokeys).

As for the bird's nests, double-check the bobbin to make sure there's no lint on the outside tension finger, and check that the bobbin backlash spring is still putting pressure on the bobbin. To do that, put a bobbin in the case and push down slightly. You should see just a little "bounce" in the bobbin, indicating the backlash spring is putting pressure on it, which is what causes it to stop spinning when you change direction.

Bird's nests can also be caused by the top tension being too loose, but that doesn't sound like your trouble.

Let me know how it's going!

Also, try a different spool and see if the problem still exists so that you can at least eliminate the spool as the culprit.

[borealisboogie]

As always, you gals are awesome and come through every time. Am printing this off and posting to my wall for future reference.

I have not had to do a whole lot of fussing and tweeking since acquiring Lenni Dec/07.

I have the thread 'weaving' through two of the three holes in the thread guide, and the needle size I am using is a fresh 4.0

I went back to the original spool of King Tutt I was using, put the spool holder on top of the machine as 'jmcclannan' suggested and "WHOOOT!!!" it seems to be performing wonderfully, now if I could 'just breath' before I get to the end of this quilt

;)Am a little afraid of 'speaking to soon though'; have to shut things down now, due to a thunder and lightening storm brewing

mmm, hope things are working out for you to

Thanks so much everyone

[mmm]

Thanks for all your good suggestions. I have tired all of your suggestions at least once if not twice today. Still no luck. I came close and thought I had it when I put the spool Horizontal, but it didn't last long. I have the thread running through all 3 holes about the tension dist like a running stitch, the thread hoizontal then to the back thread holder and then the 3 holes before the tension disk. I tried it not going to the back, with and without batting. Seemed to work best when it went to the back first with batting. Yes I am using a 4.5 needle (APQS) I have tried it at 6:30 and at 6:35, it doesn't seem to matter. I have the stitch length set between 11 and 12. A few times I got it to look good, and then started on my row across and it would go about 15 - 20 seconds, then start to sound a little funny, I could feel the thread not pulling right, and then the top thread would break. The 1st 1/2 of what I stitched would be perfect, top and bottom, No loops in the corners or on the straight lines, then all of a sudden I could see the bobbin thread puling through especially on the curves. like the top thread was way too tight, it would stitch this way for 12" or so, then it would break. I would adjust again and it would be perfect stitches,and start on my row again and the same thing would happen, perfect for only about 20 - 30 seconds then I could feel the top thread pulling, and it would break. Dawn, I did check the "check spring" seems to be working good. cleaned everything again.....I have the bobbin set very loose, it just drops to the floor when I let go. The top tension is about a tight as it can be without breaking. I was going to switch theads to get this quilt done and off the machine, but I would really like to solve this problem. I think I am just going to take it off and rip what I have -(only 1 1/2 rows) put on some musling and keep at this. This quilt is for a customer, so will need to rip the 1st row anyway, and will be easier to figure out the tension on my practice piece. Let me know if anyone has any other suggestions. I wll be trying a few other cones of signatue thread on the practice to see if it is the cone, just can't rip anymore on the customers quilt.

[borealisboogie]

Spoke to soon, am back to square one.

First and second passes went great. Shut machine off, to let storm outside blow by. Did a third and fourth pass, and the mess is back. Was thinking the thread seemed to be whipping off the cone way to much for the needle to catch up to, (hope that made sense) so I then tried a small spool of cuccirini thread instead, but thats ended with the same beehive and loopy results. Checked the bobbin case as well Dawn, and even changed it garnering no success there, tried the weaving, as well as the whipstitch technique through all three holes before the tension disk, adjusted stitch lengths up to 12 with no luck, out of 4.5 needles, but tried a 5.0 with no luck there as well.

Am really stumped on this one, so its back to the drawing board, in the meantime anymore ideas anyone please???????

[mmm]

Linda,

When I had it threaded horizontal, it was going to the back then though the 3 hole guide in the middle of the machine, then throught the 3 holes aboue the tension disk. I had it up through the 1st hole, down the 2nd and up the third like a running stitch, then to the tension disk. I have let it set over the weekend, and will be back trying it today. I am going to have someone with me and do some watching myself to see if I can figure it out.

wish me luck.

MMM

[sewlinzi]

Have you tried a pigtail bobbin?

[RitaR]

When we were having this problem on my Lenni, but I think it would apply to all machines, we took a piece of batting and pulled it back and forth thru both pigtails. One had a definate snag in it. We put on a new pigtail and the problem ended.

We also found when theres lint in the check spring or bobbin it acts a bit different.

We also were told to always adjust the tension on the bobbin FIRST, then proceed with tightening the top tension real tight and back off to less tension bit by bit, until it stitches as we want it. Also check the tip of the needle for a wee snag, or a tiny bend at the end.

Hope something helps.

RitaR

[mark]

MMM..when you are using the horizontal spool holder, do not go backwards with the thread and then back forward through the thread path. Just go directly down to the 3 hole thread guide above the tension and finish the thread path. Shortening the thread path will also help with the more delicate or fussy threads. Hope that helps some!

[borealisboogie]

MMM

I did these three things on Sunday, which one of them was the fix, I am not certain.

#1. checked the needle hole plate for any burrs, lightly sanded with a small piece of emery cloth, to make sure.

#2. Re-cleaned and oiled bobbin basket and hook area, as suggested in Lenni manual under "Cleaning and Oiling the Hook"

#3. took the whole tension control unit out, and found a long fine metal shaving approx. 1" to 1.5" long wrapped around the 'collar' that holds the check spring, did not remove check spring, just gave the spring a good dusting, (there may have been some lint caught in the spring) and put the unit back into the body of the machine.

After these three things, I was able to finish an 88"x71" log cabin quilt, with beautiful stitching on the top as well as the back on Monday.

I loaded my King Tutt spool back onto the back spool holder, threaded machine with threading up first hole and down through third hole (running stitch style) in the 3 hole guide above tension control.

I hope one of these three things I did is of some help to you

Deb

[mmm]

Mark, Deb and everyone who contributed,

Thanks so much.....I GOT IT. I threaded the machine per Mark's suggestion, straight to the 3 hole thread guide and per Deb's suggestion, checked the needle hole plate and also the bobbin holder, I found a catch when running my finger over the bottom. I sanded lightly and cleaned....Now I am getting perfect stitches top and bottom....

THANK YOU.....THANK YOU........THANK YOU....... Hopfully now I can finish the quilt....(after I rip the 1st row)

MMM

[borealisboogie]

MMM,

Fantastic news!!! So happy your up and running again.

High Five!! & Happy sewing.........

Deb