NQR- Job worries

[Quilting Heidi]

Mary Beth,

I\'m thinking Dr. Spoc wouldn\'t have thought much of either of us!!!! I used to tell my kids that sometimes in life you get a choice and that is wonderful when you do and it really is a priviledge unfortunately life doesn\'t always give you choices so you have to suck it up and deal with it! Funny to hear my kids now and they get so aggrevated with people who do nothing but make excuses. People need to wake up and start making their kids responsible and teach them that to get something you have to EARN IT! Life isn\'t always "fair" but we all still need to survive and make it work.

On the bad kids - Well I grew up in an abusive home with domestic violence and I should have been doomed to be a clone of that but I\'m so far from it! LOL these kids need to realize they can make a change and become responsible good citizens without using violence to solve their problems. Somebody just has to be willing to show them the way! When my kids told me about a "problem child" I went out of my way to try to make a difference in their life because that was what was done for me and boy let me tell you it does make a difference! Please don\'t ever give up on these kids because their parents are idiots!!!!

[JenMcManus]

Susanne and SandraC,

I am one American who agrees with both your country\'s views on gun control. Take away the availability of these weapons that kill. Tough toenails if my neighbor can\'t keep a gun in his nightstand for "protection". The privilege/right of having a gun has got to be taken away, and I say GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jen

[Guest Smile&nod]

Sorry, but I\'m afraid I have to disagree with you. Ban\'s simply don\'t work.

Look at England right now. Violent crime has increased steadily over the past 5 years (based on stats reports released in 2007...I\'ll try to find a link) including crime with firearms. And this is AFTER they banned the firearms. ie The criminals will still get their hands on a firearm, law or no law. Same thing in Canada...we have strict firearms laws, and yet the vast majority of guns used in crime here are illegally smuggled by drug dealing immigrants. (but no one can specifically target that particular ethnic group for fear of being called a racist...same sad story in a politically correct world).

For that matter, based on our laws (regardless of country) is not crime already technically banned? The problem, IMO, is that we have laws in place to deal with criminals (not that they respect the law...its what makes them a criminal) but there really is no consequence for their actions (whether its legal system bureaucracy, apathy, etc).

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer, whether its dealing with crime in a school, or crime in society as a whole. Anything any policitican does or suggests, is merely a bandaid solution until the next election.

Focus on the activities in question and the persons involved. That\'s where the problem solving resources should be. Its not about the gun held by a maniac, or the car driven by a drunk driver. Its about the idiot holding the gun, and the idiot driving the car.

Teresa, I\'ll presume that you\'ve taken it upon yourself to look for the warning signs of trouble, and to have a plan of action if the unthinkable happens at the school. If you havn\'t, please do revisit the procedures with the school and staff. Ensure that you have a means of communication with you at all times, and a means of escape for you, the students, the teachers, etc. Be confident in your abilities and your ability to keep a cool head, because that, more than anything else, will be your best ally. Above all, do not let yourself become a helpless victim. This is a scary topic, that most prefer to hope and pray will never happen to them, and I truly feel for you folks with all the tragic stuff happening in the past month. But take a lesson from what\'s happened, so that you can act NOW if need be. In an emergency, action will always beat inaction.

Maybe over time, we can change society. But until then, you must be prepared. Trust but verify. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. This doesn\'t mean that you have to live in fear...you don\'t need to. You can build your confidence though and be stronger for it in the end, knowing that you\'ve done all you can, to give you and yours the best chance to walk away from any situation.

and for that matter, the same type of preparation, confidence, and planning mentality will benefit anyone who\'s in business

$.02 from your local search and rescue toadie

[JenMcManus]

SmileandNod,

We do agree on one point, in that hope will not cut it. It takes action. I think involved parents can help a lot. One teacher in a room full of disrespectful students cannot possibly be effective. Adding several in-your-face parents to the classroom can be a big deterrent to the troublemakers.

Teresa, can you solicit some parent help? It\'s not a cure all for the weapons in the classroom issue, but it\'s a start.

Jen

[chickenscratch]

We have tried several times to organize a PTO, but there are only the same 2 or 3 parents who show up; and they aren\'t the parents of the kids we need to reach out to.

Perhaps an explanation of the community would help. This is a very poor community in West Tennessee. At one point a few years ago this county had the highest numbers of unemployment, goverment assistance cases, and teen pregnancy. Education is not given a high priority in this area. Most of the families that are here have been here for generations and generations, living in the same place, living the same way. Some of the girls have decided that they will have babies and live on a check. Some of the boys have stated that they will drop out and then collect a check. This county is one of the reasons Tennessee is working so hard for welfare reform. There is a lot of fraud and taking advantage of the system going on.

I try every day to convince my students that they can be anything they want to be. I encourage them to set high goals for themselves, and strive for at least a good job, if not a college education.

Now, do we have all bad kids here. Not at all. We have some wonderfully talented boys and girls. We have a few affluent families and there is a middle class sector as well. But those kids get swept under the rug, because they don\'t cause trouble and require extra attention.

This county\'s solution for dealing with the problems is to just pass them on, get them into the high school and hope they will graduate or drop out. Many of my 8th grade students are reading at or below 3rd grade level. They can\'t do basic math. BUT they can memorize a whole book of gang codes, draw gang symbols like professional artists, and tell you what goes on in prison (because they have a relative there).

A few years ago the government put NO Child Left Behind in place. We can\'t fail more than a certain percentage every year (I think it is 1.5%). We can\'t have more than a certain percentage of students in alternative school. We can\'t have more than so many pink slips (discipline referrals) written every school year.

So the administration sweeps a lot of things under the rug, turns their backs on some things, and hopes we won\'t have a major problem. That is not the best way to educate students. AND I know this is not the only place in the US where it is going on.

Luckily, my kids went to school in Dyer County, where I live. Things are much better there. Lots of jobs to choose from, good schools, more parent involvement and more things for kids to do to stay out of trouble. Those are the things we need in Lauderdale County, but we, as school employees, don\'t know how to get them.

[Mary Beth]

Teresa,

This "No Chiild Left Behind" thing....Jen\'s DH has two friends that I know of that have graduated from HS and cannot read at all!! I don\'t understand in the times we live now, that these two young men cannot read. Just blows me away!!

[Phyllis]

I had a conversation this morning on this topic of the No Child Left Behind and I really feel that this is something that needs to be changed. They really don\'t want to acknowledge the kids that excel but by gosh let\'s let the ones that don\'t get it go on ahead. I worked with a girl who couldn\'t read, when I asked her how she managed to get through school she said, "Oh, you find ways to cover it up." That\'s sad.

As far as the gun control goes, I am totally against that. If a person wants to do bodily harm to another they\'re going to do it with or without a gun, how about a knife, or a club? Most of this boils down to parental control. Most parents just can\'t be bothered to keep their kids under control. In this day and age when it takes 2 people to make a living for the family, it takes away from the kids. I know, I worked and I always felt like I was short-changing my kids but I needed to work to help support them. But I did work second shift, my husband worked days, so at least there was someone home with the kids most of the time.

[Guest Smile&nod]

That\'s the 64 trillion dollar question...how do you instill a sense of accountability in people, when they are currently living in the drive-through dinner, microwave snak, instant gratification and un-earned sense of entitlement era?

Fail a child because he can\'t add 2+2, and you are now endangering his fragile psyche. Reprimand a student by making her scrub off the graffiti she spraypainted on the school, and the parents rip the face off the teacher for daring to discipline their little princess. Don\'t mark with a red pen, because it makes the mistakes stand out. Don\'t play tag in the playground because someone will feel bad if they lose the game. Don\'t worry about properly spelling a word, you\'ve got spell-check for that. Sew when I come two you\'re house, I can have a slice of blewberry pie and reed the paper weather eye want too or knot.

eeeesh

almost makes a person want to campaign for mandatory licensing before someone is allowed to have kids

[Phyllis]

EXACTLY!

[Guest Smile&nod]

heheh, from the book "Dumbing Down our Kids" by Charles Sykes

RULE 1

Life is not fair - get used to it.

RULE 2

The world won\'t care about your self-esteem. The world

will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel

good about yourself.

RULE 3

You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out

of high school. You won\'t be a vice president with

car phone, until you earn both.

RULE 4

If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a

boss. He doesn\'t have tenure.

RULE 5

Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your

grandparents had a different word for burger flipping

they

called it Opportunity.

RULE 6

If you mess up,it\'s not your parents\' fault, so don\'t

whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

RULE 7

Before you were born, your parents weren\'t as boring as

they are now. They got that way from paying your bills,

cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about

how cool you are. So before you save the rain forest

from the parasites of your parent\'s generation, try

delousing the closet in your own room.

RULE 8

Your school may have done away with winners and losers,

but life has not. In some schools they have abolished

failing grades and they\'ll give you as many times as

you want to get the right answer. This doesn\'t bear the

slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

RULE 9

Life is not divided into semesters. You don\'t get

summers off and very few employers are interested in

helping you find yourself. Do that on your own time.

RULE 10

Television is NOT real life. In real life people

actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

RULE 11

Be nice to nerds. Chances are you\'ll end up working for

one.

[Quilting Heidi]

Quilt lady that is perfect! How in the world did we end up where we are today? I am always amazed at these parents that sit and negotiate with their kids to do something. Get real some things just aren\'t negotiable and kids need to learn that lesson too! Whenever we were on a field trip and a kid mouthed off to an adult my son would always turn to me and say, "I know mom you would knock me into the next county if I acted like that." Yup I\'d say.

[Guest Smile&nod]

actually, the Qlady is my wife. I\'m just the hired muscle

Parent involvement is a tricky thing. With the apparent greater need for a 2 parent income, how then can you get a parental presence in the classroom? If you can, then how do you get them there on a regular enough basis to actually make a difference, without causing financial stress to the family unit which starts the downward spiral again?

There are just so many nuances to dealing with the problems and it affects everyone eventually.

eg If a group decided that the school needs a better male presence (for sake of argument) so they request fathers in the classrooms, then that means that there have to be better wages/salaries for women to make up the difference.

You can\'t magically get those wages overnight though, so in the meantime these parents lobby for govn\'t subsidy to help them help their kids in the school system.

Govn\'t can\'t afford this massive increase in subsidy, so they raise the taxes to cover it.

But the ladies still havn\'t made enough money yet because corporations are slow on the uptake to increase the wages.

In the end, then what has been accomplished?

These are the types of decisions plaguing the people who may have a chance to try and initiate changes...the proverbial flapping wings of a butterfly in China, can and will affect the intensity of a tornado in Kansas. But it takes time and time is at a premium.

Here\'s a rhetorical question. Would you (anyone reading) be willing to give up your job right now, and give up your hobbies, and spend all your time focused on fixing the problems in society, KNOWING that your efforts will likely only be seen 4 generations from now, after your great-grandkids have already passed?

It takes a special type of person to be able to do that sort of thing. And unfortunately I\'m not one of them, so the buck gets passed again.

But before things get overly morbid around here, Easter is just around the corner...where we can celebrate the resurrection of Christ (if you happen to believe in that) with the giving of candy and chocolate eggs

oops, didn\'t mean to open THAT can of worms heheheh

[Susanne.Hughes]

Hello Smile&nod,

Banning weapons does work. It reduces the ability for those crimes of passion, the spur of the moment, shot fired in anger type of situations. Will it stop the bad guys?????????? I don\'t believe that anyone thinks so. At least the bad guys don\'t have the ability to get a weapon by a reasonably easy break and enter.

As far as giving up my job,- I never had to. I was fortunate enough not to work when they were little, but it did mean that we were not well off. For our family, fast food used to be homemade scrambled eggs!!!

When I did go to work, I negotiated time off - a few hours that was "made up" at lunchtimes etc so I could go to my children\'s school and help with remedial reading etc. The kids loved having me there, the teacher loved the fact that those who needed it got extra attention and I was able to observe my children at school, their behaviour, their interaction with others etc. Win-Win all around!!! The parents of the problem children were not necessarily involved, but any parent input is healthy and welcome!! Teresa, if there are parents there to help, do not discourage for they are role models for all children.

M children used to come home from school (in the States) and loudly proclaim that they had Rights!! Our response was always, that with rights came responsibilites. If you couldn\'t deal with the responsibilities then you didn\'t deserve to have that particular right. You had to earn it. They also were brought up with the idea that every action has a consequence. You want to dress like a Goth, then you will have to accept that the local MacDonalds might not hire you or your local grocery store. If yu want to drive around in a modified, fast impot, thren the police will likely stop you far more often than you will like! Society dictates is own norms and whether you think this is fair or not, ...... "Tough Titties!" as we say in this country. That is the way of Life.

The administration staff and teachers at the local elementary school (US) just used to smile at me, they had given up correcting me, becauseI came from a country that has many religions, but the Easter break, is the Easter break and the Christmas holidays are the Christmas holidays. Those that have different religions respect this, just us christians are aware of Hanaka or Ramadan (spelling?). Wouldn\'t the world be a much nicer place if everone was like a Long arm quilter and displayed loyalty, compassion, love and tolereance to all opinions and believes.

[chickenscratch]

Smile and Nod:

You are so BAD! and it\'s hilarious.

I love the rules you listed. I\'m going to print them off and hang them in my classroom. Of course, I\'ll probably get chastised for it from the principal, but hey! sometimes I just don\'t care.

A coworker and I were talking today and I told him that I didn\'t even feel like I was teaching anymore. I feel like a glorified babysitter. YOu are so right about the red pen, and nobody losing, and so many other things. That\'s the way it is nowadays. It just isn\'t real life.

Susanne, to address the issue of the parent volunteers=-- you state"The parents of the problem children were not necessarily involved, but any parent input is healthy and welcome!! Teresa, if there are parents there to help, do not discourage for they are role models for all children."

I didn\'t want to bring up this issue, because it will open another can of worms..... but 90-95% of those parents who are willing to help are the white, middle to upper class parents. There are certain children who will not listen to those people, just on principle. Heck, they won\' t even listen to some of us teachers, because we\'re white women.

I don\'t want to start a war here. I just needed to share my feelings with somebody. It\'s great, though, that you all love me and understand where I\'m coming from. Only my APQS friends get what I\'m trying to say sometimes.

(((((APQS friends)))))))))

[lizziesgirl]

Teresa, Have you ever read the book "Glass Castle"? It is an autobiography about a lady that lived in the Tenn hills part of the time. Mostly she was homeless and it is really amazing on how she has overcome the senerios of her life. Really good book and most of it would be good for a classroom as discussion material. That is if you can get the board to approve it. Yet another topic:o

As far as gun control, sorry they are going to find them if they want them.

[Jeanette]

I also think that it begins with the parents but here in California (can only speak for my state) we are dealing with second and third generation gang kids and the problem began with their parents. They are raised in the colors,you see tiny toddlers with the colors carried around proudly by their parents, jumped in by their older siblings who were jumped in by their own parents and sometimes grandparents. Don\'t think this is just a problem of kids and teenagers. We are dealing with men and women middle aged and older who are gangbangers now. And while many of us raise our voices in protest many who do are shot at in drive-bys, or their children beaten up badly and intimidated, etc. Even the cops are at a loss in many areas. And the problem is growing in other places now. I think the midwest is just beginning to see it happening:-( Wish I had some words of hope or wisdom to share.

[Guest Smile&nod]

/steps onto soapbox

Suzanne, I guess we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I have no way of swaying you and those who hold the same opinion as you, the same way you really have no way of swaying me...unless you can provide some empirical evidence showing that by banning an object, you solve the longterm problems.

Let me pose these questions to the masses as a topic of discussion...that\'s really my only goal when all is said and done...to get people to discuss and make a decision after hearing two sides of the debate, not just the side given by the mainstream media.

Here in Canada, we have the mayor of Toronto with his "if it just saves one life" campaign, calling to ban handguns. A noble effort to be sure, but I don\'t happen to agree with it.

Here\'s why (and now to the questions...warning, I WILL be a tad sarcastic )

If it saves one life:

Should we ban violence from one citizen against another? If we aren\'t allowed to be violent, then it shouldn\'t happen right? Wait...I think that\'s a pretty standard law already. Good thing all the good citizens follow the law already. We just have to deal with the criminals and ask them to follow the law.

Should we ban illegal hard drugs like crystal meth and crack cocaine? Oh wait, we already do that, and yet it still exists in society, with people shooting other people for it. Hmmmm

Should we ban alcohol? Should be an easy question. Alcohol really serves no real purpose. Its a privilage to be allowed to drink. And its dangerous to have around because people don\'t consume responsibly and when they get behind the wheel of a car, they potentially become a weapon of destruction. Or beat their children. Thank goodness the US had that Prohibition Law to ban alchohol in the 1930\'s. Otherwise Al Capone and his buddies would have had to find honest work.

Should we ban martial arts training? Because in a moment of passion, some black belt somewhere will snap someone\'s neck. Doesn\'t matter that he/she has had a lifetime of training...can\'t take the chance that he may just SNAP one day.

Should we ban knives with points on them? Because you only need an edge to cut things with...even if that thing is another person. (incidentally, this is a bill that they have passed in Great Britain)

Better yet,

Should we ban stereo\'s and televisions? Because if a criminal knows it is in your home, then that makes you a potential target for them to break and enter to steal it to fund some nefarious drug habit that they have. If you don\'t have any nice things, then no one would have a reason to bother you right?

and in the same vein, Should we ban Nike shoes and leather jackets? Because again, if you are a youth and you have them, you are a target for that thug who wants it.

We\'d also better ban rope and pantyhose too, just in case some maniac decides to go and strangle some poor victim.

As quilters, how many of you have ever had issues with your project? Now how many of you have automatically gone "well, I should have read the instructions better, or I should have been more careful with my cutting/following the pattern" And in contrast, how many of you have in the same situation gone "oh this stupid machine, or this stupid rotary cutter, or its all the fault of this dang diddly doodily needle" :cool:

IMO, its easy to blame an object. An object is inanimate. The gun did not pull the trigger itself. You as a good human being didn\'t pull the trigger either. Neither did the alcohol pour itself down your throat, the car start by itself and run down that person on the sidewalk, nor did the knife leave the cutting block on your counter and stick itself into someone else.

If you are willing to ban an object because the act of banning might just save one life, why not spend the same resources in getting rid of the bad guys, and saving several lives?

See, this is the tough part about being "the good guys". We\'re expected to play by the rules.

/steps off soapbox

Teresa, hang in there and do what you feel is right. And some words of wisdom from Davey Crockett, an adage he tried to live by "Be sure you\'re always right, then go ahead"

And if you have a chance, read up on the Sheep, the Sheepdog and the Wolf. CLICK ON THIS

and once again, with a bit of black humor heheheh

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[chickenscratch]

I just read the sheep,sheepdog, wolf article. Methinks you and I are a lot alike Toady.

I think I\'m somewhat of a sheepdog, where my kids are concerned (my own and my students), my home, and my animals.

Thanks for the thought provoking conversation today. I\'ve enjoyed it.