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We just asked our State Farm Insurance agent for a quote and he said it would run $574 a year (underwriters wanted over $700 but he talked them down). That seems excessive to me. I asked him how come so much...he replied that SLAQS would be a retail establishment (Sharon would be making a product....not sure I agree with that), there would be $15k coverage for going to trade shows, and there had been losses from children choking on buttons attached to quilts.

I doubt SLAQS would see more than 1 or 2 walk-ins a day, maybe none. Isn't this really a service business or re-manufacturing rather than retail?

What are you all paying for business insurance? :(

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Hi Greg,

I have not gotten a quote for insurance yet. I run my quilting

business part-time out of my home.

I just started setting things up and was surprised that my

customers have to pay tax on my quilting service. In

California, it is called fabrication labor because it produces

personal property. Quilting is not like the "service" to repair

your car because you do not "create" a car. Whereas when

you quilt, you create personal property, the quilt. It's a

pretty blurry line.

Having your own busines is not all about working in your

pajamas and making your own hours, I guess. :D You've

gotta take the rough with the smooth.

I reckon I better call my insurance man. Can't wait to hear

what that is going to cost me.

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My business is out of my home. I have 2 riders on my homeowners policy to cover:

1. The quilting machine and supplies for my business

2. Customer quilts that I have in my possession

3. Customers that are in my home conducting business.

The extra cost for these riders was very minimal. Less than $100 per year.

I've had a tax id and business permit from day one, so that's not an issue for me. My business permit is classified as a service/manufacturing permit.

The only issue I have is that the customer quilts are covered to replace the fabric only. Any time the quilter has into making the piece is not covered. I make sure that my customers know this when they bring the quilt to my home and I don't let a customer bring a quilt more than a month in advance. They go on a waiting list and I call them when they can bring me the quilt top.

Debbi

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I too got a quote of $550 for insurance. so until I start getting business, I just upped our homeowner's policy to cover the cost of the machine, etc. but my agent said it was a must to have other insurance once I started taking in quilts.

I have my business license and am registered with the State. Does anyone know if I am a dba out of my home if I have to have a tax id number? I didn't think I would and could just do a Schedule C.

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I can't believe I am about to say this....but I wonder what an attorney would say about the insurance issue? An insurance salesman(or woman) is going to SELL you insurance - probably the maximum allowable by law. :P That is what they are about. Of course, the attorney will tell you all the worst case scenarios. I wish there was someone to advise us who didn't have their own agenda.

I am in business to help myself and my family financially, and not to line the pockets of an insurance salesman(woman). Insurance has it's place but let's not get ridiculous.

DISCLAIMER: this post was written by a resident of the state of Florida where homeowner's insurance policies are hard to get and expensive as **** because of hurricanes and insurance company greed.

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I got insurance fairly quickly because I rent a space to quilt. Yes, I have a store-front and a bit of retail. (I sell rullers cutting mats and a few other "toys"). My reason for getting the insurance was the landlord... She kept saying No problem, we carry insurance on the building, so don't worry if someone falls we are covered... Well, if HER building burns down because HER mother left the coffeepot on in the apartment upstairs, no insurance compny would care about MY machine, MY fabric, MY customers quilts... It runs about $50 a month, so $600 a year, I'd rather spend that on thread and fabric, but the peace of mind is worth it.

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When I opened my fabric shop I got coverage for accidents (up to 1mil, I believe-being that I don't have the policy in front of me I can't be positive) fire etc to cover my inventory. My landlord has coverage for the building itself on his own. I paid $517 for one year and ended with an $84 credit for overpayment. So I paid less than $500 for one year coverage. The day I received my Precious I added it to my policy. I haven't received the policy change as of yet so I can't say for certain what that cost is at this moment.

From what I understand insurance coverage varies by state for whatever reason. My reccommendation is to call your local Chamber of Commerce to see if they have any RETIRED insurance people listed in its registery. These people are usually very willing to advise new business owners on matters of their expertise for little to no cost.

Bekah-I would reccommend that you get a sales tax license, if for no other reason than being able to purchase items at wholesale cost to you. In regards to this, I've been told that this varies state to state as well. I could be wrong on that one though. It's been known to happen.:cool:

That's my info and opinion for what it's worth!

Happy Quilting

Manda

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My insurance runs about $400 Cdn per year. The second year I was going to cancel but decided not to. I figured that there weren't that many people coming in and out of my home and not many quilts here at any one time.

I wasn't figuring on the replacement cost of the machine in case of fire. I think if it was just used for a hobby it would be covered under my house insurance but not now that I am doing customer quilts. That sold me there as I would hate to be out that kind of money if the machine were destroyed ( and it's not even paid for yet!)

Also, naive that I am, I figured that if someone slipped and feel while at the house that quilters were too nice to sue, surely.!!! Then you hear horror stories of friends suing friends after an injury when the accident was the injured parties fault.

Better safe than sorry for me.........

Sandra

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Guest Linda S

Greg - I'm over here in Eugene and don't have a retail storefront -- just my studio in my home that customers do not come to (I meet them at their home, my office at the UO, or the quilt shop). My business insurance is just over $300 a year, so I'm not sure that sounds unreasonable.

Linda

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This is not directed at any one in particular but I just cannot imagine that any of us have spent the amount of time and money to buy the machine, perfect the skill, get the business and yet, have not made sure where we stand on insurance.

Most policies exclude business. . totally. With some companies, you can buy separate riders. Allstate (at least in Kentucky) is not one of them so I have my insurance through Milne & Scali. It provides coverage for the quilts of others, my machine and supplies at an amount I set. They charge by the amount of coverage. If I choose to have $50K in coverage, I pay twice as much as if I have $25K in coverage. Like Linda, I have no personal liability coverage for the business so customers do not come here . . ever!

If you are hoping your homeowner policy covers your machine and other business supplies, as well as property of others, or liability, you had better sit down with your agent and make real sure.

My agent told me that if I used the machine at least haf the time for my own personal use, it was covered. I asked for it in writing so he consulted with the underwriters. As it turned out, no how - no way was the machine covered since it was used at any time for business. Had I just trusted him, I would have been without coverage. And do not think they will not find out. Do you have a business loan? Do you write off any of your expenses as a business expense on your taxes?

If someone is hurt on your property or if you have a loss, it really absolutely does not matter what you think or what you wish, the written policy prevails.

Please be safe! Please get out your policy. See what it says about business coverage. It does not matter if you make $1 per year or $1 billion per year. Talk to your agent. Get him to put in writing what he is telling you if it appears to be different or additional to the language of your policy.

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Okay ladies, I'm a licensed insurance agent in Iowa. Each company will handle this situation differently - believe me - get something in writing from the company. Be honest with your agent. You will probably have to complete a questionnaire and be honest there too. I have Cincinnati Insurance and was able to add an "in-home business endorsement" to my homeowners policy. It covers my machine, supplies and customer quilts. I live way out in the country and rarely will a customer come to my home. The problem comes if there was a fire and totally destroyed customer quilts - how do you put a value on them? It would more than likely pay for the fabric. My advice is not to keep customer quilts at your house - I have 5 right now and that is too many. I will put the next customer on my quilting list and call her when I'm ready for her quilt. A local horror story was a long-arm quilter who had 29 quilts at her home and it was destroyed by fire and "no insurance"!!!! Bye-Bye quilting business! Just talk to your agent. My business endorsement cost less than $100/year. Hope this helps. Sharon.

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I have to agree with Sharon. As a former insurance agent and underwriter for commercial policies, I have to tell you, not only is each carrier different, but each state differs in their laws.

Your insurance agent is a professional, trust their advice. The same way your clients come to you for professional advice on quilting, you should trust your agent. if you feel you can't trust your agent, or that they are in it just to 'sell you a policy'; change agents!!!!!

Most carriers will classify you as a manufacturer. If they ask you all the right questions, and know what they are talking about, that is the way you should be classified, unless you plan on making more than 80% of your income as retail. This is not a state rule, but an ISO rule. (this is the national company that makes up the classifications that carriers use.) Unless your carrier uses their own classifications, this is the correct classification.

I have heard a million times from other people, but this bears repeating... if your agent is telling you that you are covered under your homeowners policy, get it in writing! That way, if they are wrong, you have a claim against your agent's E&O coverage. Unless you see it in black and white do not trust it.

The cost of insurance may be an expense you don't want to pay, but if you are truly in business, it should be thought of as just a cost of doing business. The alternative is unthinkable. Here in Georgia we are having a series of storms go through. Every night on the news there are three or four stories about lightning hitting homes and businesses. How much money are you really saving by not purchasing insurance if your house is hit by lightning and your homeowners coverage does not extend to the business pursuits as you were promised?

A lot of people don't think renters insurance is all that important either... then they are the ones on the news stories begging for help to replace their possessions.

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I live in the Lane County OR. My insurance agent said becasue of that to take out extra coverage. If sued, settlements are higher because people living in this county have "deep pockets." Certainly something I hadn't thought of before he mentioned it. Stop by and say Hello at Innovations. I'll be working at the Reg Table Tuesday in the late afernoon.

Ellen Childs

Fourth Generation Quilt Works

Veneta, OR

APQS Millenium

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There is such a wealth of information on this forum. I love that we can come here and share and not ever feel stupid or put down. I work for an attorney and he and I do insurance claims all the time and it is amazing how many times we have had to go after an insurance company because they did not live up to their spoken word. As soon as I am through practicing, I will add the business insurance, it is an expense we should be taking seriously. By the way, the insurance companies usually win in a lawsuit.:(

thank you for the advice about the sales tax number but we don't have sales tax in Oregon yet. Can anyone in Oregon verify that I need a tax id. my boss says no, but not sure he is right. Attorneys are not always right.:D

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Guest Linda S

Bekah - currently, my tax ID number is my SS number. I do, however, have a State of Oregon Business License Number. www.filinginoregon.com That is what I use to set up my wholesale accounts. I doubt that we will EVER have sales tax in Oregon. It has been on the ballot either 7 or 9 times and has failed every single time. I just can't see it ever happening.

Linda

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I also am a out of the house business, but I have a tax ID, but I called around and I got a price from Auto Owners, which we now have our house insurance under, once my business loan is under 10, 000.oo I can change to a rider on my homeowners insurance. My policy covers the machine my inventory of thread and batting, etc, and about the replacement cost of 6-8 quilts that I might have incase of fire, we don't live in an area of flooding so that is not an available option, I pay about 450.00 a year. Next I will be able to switch to a lower preminun and the policy will just be the rider on the homeowners. Good luck Greg, It took me 3-4 calls to insurance companies to get the prices I thought fair and that they were willing to cover. Oh and the agent came out to the house and took pictures of the machine.

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I rarely post on the APQS forums simply because I?ve never owned one so I have no valuable info to share regarding many APQS related matters. Plus, there are so many extremely talented and competent APQS owners and dealers here to assist you that it hardly seems necessary to pipe in with a ?Here, too!? posting on the non-APQS specific topics. However, on the issue of business insurance, I do have some specific knowledge and opinion.

As many on this list (and others) already know, I was once a commercial insurance underwriter and agent. I also am a CPCU and ARM, which is a fancy way of saying ?I am an insurance geek?. I am also married to an insurance geek who is also a CPCU, ARM and currently a commercial lines underwriting manager for a large national insurance company. Consequently, even though I am many years removed from that line of work, we continue to talk ?shop?.

DH and I used to teach a business insurance course at some of the big quilting venues but it just wasn?t feasible when only 10-12 people would register. (Guess it?s not one of those ?hot? subjects. LOL!)

Anyway, I find myself bristling at some of the insurance bashing that occasionally occurs but then I must remind myself that I, too, enjoy a bit of bashing at times. (Only my favorite insurance bashing has to do with health insurance carriers at the moment. VBG)

The sad fact is that there have been and always will be good agents and bad agents, good claims adjusters and bad claims adjusters and good insurance companies and bad insurance companies. It is a disservice to the industry to wipe the entire industry with the same brush, however!

Deanna wrote: ?DISCLAIMER: this post was written by a resident of the state of Florida where homeowner's insurance policies are hard to get and expensive as **** because of hurricanes and insurance company greed.?

Hello??? The loss sustained by EVERYONE due to the hurricanes of these past few years is staggering. Keep in mind, losses all across the country do not stop just because one region has been hit and hit hard! The money for those losses comes out of the company?s pool of premium money and investments. I (and all the other policyholders of the company) am contributing my premiums to a fund that will pay for today?s losses in the hope that when I have a loss, my claim will also be paid.

Property/Liability insurance is a BUSINESS, not a social device! Rates are primarily determined by the odds of you having a loss. The odds of a resident of Florida experiencing a catastrophic loss is statistically much higher than in many other parts of the country. Of course, that area would have higher premiums than say, Idaho!

Insurance companies basically play the odds (okay, with some sophisticated actuarial work and savvy investing). When playing the odds one wants to feel that they have a fair chance of winning. In some areas of the country there isn?t much chance of an insurance company NOT incurring a catastrophic loss! It?s not a question of if a loss will happen but merely a question of WHEN. This makes insurance companies less than enthusiastic about insuring for certain perils (like earthquake, for example). Can you blame them?

Also, if the statement by Bekah (that insurance companies usually win) is true, it is merely because the insurance policy is a CONTRACT. Unlike some other forms of insurance, property and liability insurance has been around a very LONG time. The contracts have been repeatedly tested in the courts over the years, centuries even.

The courts are extremely strict about the interpretation of contracts. There are libraries and law firms dedicated to nothing but this subject.

In the case of insurance contracts there is a standard test commonly referred to as the ?reasonable man? expectation. It works like this: if the contract holds some ambiguity regarding its interpretation or intent, the court will generally rule in the favor of the reasonable man?s expectation or intent. Therefore, the court may give more credence to the insured?s argument since he/she is not expected to know contract law and he/she is in an obvious position of lesser power in comparison to the insurance company.

Insurance companies know this about the courts and sometimes will settle out of court on issues that from a strictly contractual standpoint they should never have paid. (Even if they were to win in court, it costs them money to be there.) Also, insurance companies and courts make mistakes in favor and against insureds.

Sorry, I digressed. Anyway, business insurance for a longarm business?

Just because a governmental agency may classify you as a ?manufacturer? for tax purposes, does NOT mean that you should be rated as a manufacturer on your business insurance policy for the small at-home longarm quilter! A manufacturing risk has exposures that are simply above and beyond those of the longarm quilter.

Below you will find the information I frequently give to people who ask me about how to get an insurance agent/underwriter to understand our business. I hope you find it of some help. In addition, I have included some commonly asked questions and answers regarding business insurance for the small businessowner.

Finally, I have an interactive Property Inventory worksheet on MS Excel that is available for anyone?s personal use. I have also converted it to a print only PDF file for those who cannot open Excel worksheets. Both of these can be found in the Files section of the MQP list. I will also have them available in a few days on my website, www.Hotquilts.com.

This material is protected by copyright and permission must be granted by me to reprint or reproduce the information for use in any training/teaching format or for commercial or financial gain.

Let me know if you have any further insurance questions. I am always happy to try and help but it may take a few days for me to respond, so be patient.

*********************

There are commonly two ways to insure a home-based business, i.e. through a home-based business endorsement added to your homeowners insurance policy or through a separate business policy. The separate business policy will provide you with greater protection through the addition of many more coverages. (Homeowners policies do not allow certain entities such as corporations and partnerships to be added via an endorsement rider. Therefore, your only option will be a separate business policy.)

Most business insurance companies offer a businessowners policy (BOP). The BOP is a much more comprehensive policy that has numerous extra coverages built into the policy form and is the policy type I would recommend. It is composite rated and you may find your premium costs are greatly weighted by the amount of property limits requested.

To help you determine what you might have at risk with respect to your contents, I have an interactive form that can be easily downloaded onto your computer if you have a spreadsheet program such as MS Excel. The form will keep a running total of values as you enter each category's dollar amount. Then you can determine whether you wish to insure all

or part of your inventory.

You may find business coverage through both direct writers (such as Farmers, Allstate, State Farm) or an independent insurance agent that represents many companies. Often the independent insurance agent is capable of providing more competitive bids for your business because they can access several markets.

You will want to have your business insurance placed with a company that has an A.M. Best rating of A or better. A.M. Best is a key financial rating company (www.AMBest.com) that is used by the industry to determine the financial strength of an insurance company. In addition, do not overlook the smaller regional insurance companies. They are often financially strong and very competitive in areas of business some of the larger companies may not be targeting.

One of the problems you may have encountered is a reluctance by some agents to work with you on finding an affordable price for your insurance. This may be in large part due to the fact that they don't truly understand what this industry is all about. Another factor is that it may require a bit more time to research the topic and the low commission payoff does not make it economically feasible for them to pursue your account. However, I assure you there are agents out there that will be happy to work with you, especially if you come armed with answers for them.

Since many agents and underwriters have no idea what a longarm quilter is, I would encourage you to explain that your operations are very similar to that of a tailor/seamstress, i.e. you take materials (usually provided by the customer) and sew (quilt) them together according to the customer's wishes. Your machine is basically a sewing machine, only bigger. However, unlike a tailor, you have less exposure as you do not do fittings on anyone nor are you likely to have a great deal of public traffic if your business is "by appointment only".

(Also, keep in mind that you may be placed in a small retail classification depending on your retail sales and/or other activities. The agent/underwriter will know what the company requirements are for this.)

Even though some states classify the longarm quilter as a manufacturer for tax purposes, do not suggest to the agent that you are in fact a manufacturer (unless you really are, of course). The typical longarm quilter is far removed from a true manufacturing process and might confuse an agent/underwriter thus making it harder to find an affordable insurance policy.

Finding business insurance shouldn't be hard and it shouldn't be too expensive; however, much of that depends on what you choose to cover. A good agent is often the key. Ask other nearby small businesses and longarmers who they might recommend. (BTW, most minimum policy premiums these days run $300 to $750. But remember, it is tax deductible as a business expense!)

FAQs:

? With a small, home-based business, is business insurance really necessary?

First, it is important to note that a personal homeowner insurance contract does not include coverage for your business. It will not provide business liability coverage while business property coverage is typically limited to $2,500.

As a business owner and manager, you do many things to assure the financial success of your business venture. Those activities are too numerous to mention here but include activities such as advertising, doing quality work, being responsive to the needs of customers, having an adequate inventory and supply of tools necessary to do the job, managing your cash flow and expenses, etc. The list goes on and on.

Perhaps the most important business management activity is that of managing the risk of loss. A minor error in any of the above noted categories likely won't destroy or seriously interrupt your business. But what about a major fire and the resulting loss of income, an unexpected legal liability entanglement, vandalism, injury to a customer while on your premises, destruction of business property while off premises or in transit? This list, too, can go on and on.

The most important point here is that a catastrophic loss can destroy all that you have worked for unless you are adequately protected against these unexpected contingencies. Each day we are careful to avoid potential damage by locking our doors, turning off the power, closing our windows, and repairing the sidewalk. If we could completely eliminate the potential for loss there would be no need for insurance. It is the unexpected that we can't control, but we can prepare for it through the purchase of insurance.

The process of insurance is very much like that of participating in funding the cost of your local fire department. You hope that the fire engine never leaves the station, and that your investment returns nothing more than the comfort in knowing that if the alarm does sound, the resulting loss will be minimized by the collective effort of all who contributed to its existence. Just as with the local fire department, insurance cannot prevent the loss, but it can minimize its financial impact.

? My agent has suggested that I cover my home-based business by endorsing my homeowner policy. Are there any advantages to having a separate business policy?

This depends on the insurance company, as each will address the homeowner business endorsement differently. However, the following points in favor of a separate business policy are generally true.

o Many more coverage options than are available with an endorsement to a

homeowner policy

o Separate limit for business premises and operations liability, product liability, personal injury, and premises medical. See below for a more complete description of these coverages

o The business policy can remain in force (uninterrupted) should you decide to move to another location, add a location, move your homeowner coverage to another insurance company, or change the name or legal structure of your business

o Your homeowner loss experience, payment record, or possible cancellation will not affect your business insurance

o Business insurance expenses are more easily identified and tracked for tax purposes

o It is often necessary to add other entities as an additional insured, which is more easily accomplished with a separate business policy

? Will my homeowner policy respond if a customer, who is on my premises for business purposes, is injured while on the non-business portion of my premises?

As the customer was on your premises for business, and since most homeowner policies specifically exclude losses arising out of business activity, your business policy would address the claim.

? I have converted the garage attached to my home to accommodate my studio. Where should it be covered - under my homeowner policy, or my business policy?

A structure physically attached to your home is considered part of the home and would be covered under your homeowner policy. However, the contents of your converted garage and your business operations must be covered under a business policy or, at the very least, a business endorsement to your homeowner policy.

? The terms "bodily injury", "premises medical", and "personal injury" are confusing to me. What is the difference, if any, between these terms?

These can be confusing as each term suggest some form of bodily injury, so why the difference? Actually, each refers to a separate coverage under the General Liability portion of the policy. Each also has its own coverage limit.

Bodily Injury is a reference to injuries the policyholder causes to someone else, either on or off premises, or as a result of injury arising out of the use of the insured's product.

Premises Medical is a coverage afforded to customers who are injured while on the insured's premises. However, unlike "bodily injury", damages are paid with no need to establish fault.

Personal Injury applies to losses arising out of injuries that are not physical in nature, including but not limited to libel, slander, wrongful eviction, false arrest, invasion of privacy, copyright infringement, etc.

(protected by copyright)

Christine Olson

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Deanna wrote: ?DISCLAIMER: this post was written by a resident of the state of Florida where homeowner's insurance policies are hard to get and expensive as **** because of hurricanes and insurance company greed.?

Hello??? The loss sustained by EVERYONE due to the hurricanes of these past few years is staggering. Keep in mind, losses all across the country do not stop just because one region has been hit and hit hard! The money for those losses comes out of the company?s pool of premium money and investments. I (and all the other policyholders of the company) am contributing my premiums to a fund that will pay for today?s losses in the hope that when I have a loss, my claim will also be paid.

OK, I really must take offense to this. I am NOT an idiot and I KNOW the insurance companies sustained massive losses. So did us HUMANS. In fact my "disclaimer" was meant to point out to everyone reading that my viewpoint was in fact "tainted" by my own location and recent experiences. I would like to know just how many of you out there have seen your insurance rates DOUBLE this past year to add premiums to the fund??? How many of you have $7000 deductibles on top of that??? How many of you drive around and see blue tarps on roofs of insured homes from damage sustained 2 years ago??? People here are still waiting on insurance payouts.

I live pretty far inland, not on the coast, yet my insurance is still outrageously expensive. I should feel lucky since my son?s insurance went up proportionately more than mine. He is not on the coast either, but he is (barely) west of I-75, a seemingly arbitrary boundary set by the insurance companies. The past 2 years were an anomaly in the number of hurricanes hitting our state, but I will bet money that as things settle back to what is normal for us our insurance premiums will NOT be adjusted accordingly.

So, if my observations are "insurance bashing", I can live with that.

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My sincerest apology. Of course, you are not an idiot and I did not mean to suggest such. You have every right to have strong and seemingly unpleasant feelings towards the insurance industry. As far as the human toll these disasters have taken on mankind, there is no amount money that will ever heal some wounds.

My point is that the family that has lost everything in a home fire in North Dakota, or some other insured loss, also suffers. Their needs also need to be met. And the costs of their losses are also factored into the "pool". FWIW, my rates have increased as well and I live no where near a "high risk" area!

There is plenty of blame to go around regarding the pitiful recovery of many of the areas hardest hit by Mother Nature in recent years. And not all insurance companies have handled it well. But not all have handled it badly, either! And neither should they be mistaken as having an obligation beyond that which is in the insurance contract. Yes, that IS harsh but it is also reality.

Imagine how it feels for the claims adjuster in Florida who still gets to come home to a roof of blue tarp or worse. There are no easy answers for any victims of disaster. So I continue to pray for all my fellow Americans, especially those struggling to become whole again.

Again, my apology for having offended you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Christine, for the excellent explanation. Yes, all of our insurance rates are going up, up, up! While I feel badly for those of you who are in the path of such storms and natural disasters, I must say that you do take a risk in choosing where you live. I'm in the Pacific Northwest. If I lived about a mile further to the north, I would need flood insurance, because I would be right next to the river. Currently, I cannot buy volcano insurance, which is probably the biggest natural disaster I am likely to face. As the saying goes, "you plays your cards and you takes your chances." If you choose to live in a tropical paradise or tornado alley, you have to expect higher insurance costs.

Linda

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Dear All,

I don't know how it is done in other countries, but since I own a quiltshop ( also with embroidery, beads and gifts ), the Millennium that is about to arrive will be insured as inventory - since it will become part of my equipment, and not being moved ( normally, I will not quilt at another location, so the Millennium will always stay in place ), it is nothing else as my computers, register etc. So the insurance will be added up to my inventory, and this will not cost too much per year.

I already have an incurance for work of third parties, like quilts from my customers or classes, that will be hung in my shop, so that part is covered too.

Different than all the things I have been reading about!

Sylvia Kaptein

Sylka-Mode

www.sylkamode.com

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