barbm Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I\'m hoping someone here can help me - I\'ve searched the topics and found nothing quite like what I\'m experiencing, and I\'d rather not resort to the wine/chocolate path just yet. I\'m using Bottom Line in the bobbin on this quilt and used it on the previous one as well. Both have PolyDown batting, a pieced top and flannel back. On the first quilt I used So Fine for the top - on this one I\'m using Bottom Line to SID and Lava for the rest (first time with Lava!). My problem is this, the bobbin thread "seems" to be jumping out of the "tension hook" on the bobbin. I\'m happily quilting along and then my machine quits moving like it should. Bobbin thread breaks as I stop and move the machine away from the stitching line, and is found to be coming out the edge of the bobbin, rather than through the tension hook. This seems to happen more with a fuller bobbin, and it doesn\'t seem to matter whether I use the backlash spring that came with my bobbin case or a Bobbie Genie washer. I\'ve tried another bobbin case, loosened the tension (top & bottom), tightened the tension (top & bottom) and still have the problem occur, but intermittently. Any suggestions, ladies & gents? And why does this happen when APQS is closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam.Nagle Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Are you using BL in the bobbin and SF in the top? If you test stitch out on reg. fabric and batting scrap, same issue? If you "drop test" the bobbin, does it free-fall or just hang? I don\'t use the bobbin genie, just the bobbin spring in the case. I\'m wondering if you have a bad bobbin (the one that keeps breaking)? I\'ve found that when using BL, you have to really ensure it\'s nested under the tensioner on the bobbin. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffq-lar Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hi Barb, When I use a full bobbin (I use pre-wound BL) sometimes the thread runs off the edge of the cardboard side and immediately pulls tight around the spindle inside the bobbin case and breaks. I can remedy this by tearing off the cardboard on the bobbin or pulling off enough thread for the level of the thread to lay below the edge of the cardboard side. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted March 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Pam: Same problem with regular fabric off to the side - works for a while (sometimes long enough to make me think the problem\'s gone) then breaks again. When I do the "bobbin test," it has proper tension on it, although that has been all over the board as I\'ve tried to find the right tension combination. And this has happened with more than one bobbin, more than one bobbin case, more than one color of bottom line. Linda: I was wondering if the bobbins were too full - seemed a possibility, as this seems to happen mostly with full bobbins. But they aren\'t so full that the thread extends beyond the edge of the bobbin. Guess I\'ll take a "timeout" for dinner, then go unwind some thread from the bobbin and see how it goes from there. Thanks, both of you, for your prompt response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinaCollins Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Barb, Ponder this for a bit.... Bottom Line is a very strong, yet lightweight thread that has a slight stretch to it. If you overwind Bottom Line with a too-tight tension, it is possible to "spring" the bobbin out of round- Meaning that the circular edges of the bobbin are no longer perfectly straight to the core. This may or may not be clearly visible by looking at the bobbin. Anyway.... if one part of the bobbin\'s radial edge is higher than the rest (say where the thread sprung/skewed the bobbin)- as you are quilting, the thread may actually overide the shortest part of the circular edge and pull itself out of the tension clasp. Do you have another bobbin that has never been wound with Bottom Line to try an experiement with? If so, try loosening the winding tension, making sure not to overfill the bobbin... and see if this helps. I first actually realized this with my embroidery machine several years back when I was using a lingerie thread from Creative Feet (can\'t remember the name as I have switched to using Bottom Line)... Bottom Line is a similar thread, so it can also have this effect on bobbins if wound too tightly, and especially if overwound too tightly. Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenscratch Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Barb, similar problem here, mostly when using prewounds. I\'ll be going along and suddenly bobbin tension is really tight, or bobbin thread will snap. Lift up quilt top and batting-pull bobbin case out and thread is wrapped around the little handle dealy that you use to snap the bobbin case in place. This doesn\'t happen all the time, but the last few days it has been making me crazy. Also, I\'m finding that tension is not consistent for all the prewounds in a box. Not good. I keep having to adjust that littl escrew on the bobbin case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinaCollins Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Teresa and all, First of all, I use lots and lots of prewound bobbins and LOVE the time-saving convenience... and I find that the tension problems are much fewer than when winding your own- although issues may occassionally occur. Here are two possible causes of pre-wound tension woes. One is the cardboard edges themselves, as already mentioned. The tip to tear off the sides is spot on. I will first look to see if I have any tiny cardboard flakes under the pre-wound. If so, then I tear off the back side and try it. If I don\'t see any flaking, then I tear off the front cardboard edge and try it. Rarely though, I may have to tear both sides off (especially if I have an oversized width prewound- read on for more info about this...) to get my tension perfect. The second issue is that some prewounds may be a slight bit wider than usual. Even if you are using a towa tension gauge, this reading is not accurate to the "actual quilting bobbin tension". Here\'s why: The tension gauge is measuring the thread resistance of your bobbin as it is spinning freely- IE: Not snapped into the hook assembly. If the bobbin happens to be slightly oversized (either by bent cardboard edges or the actual bobbin width), once it is snapped into the hook assembly, it will become "squished" and not able to spin freely as the thread is pulled up. I always teach new longarmers to check their bobbin tension (of both prewounds and refillable bobbins) by pulling the thread up and out of the needle plate. If you have a bent bobbin edge, you will feel more resistance in a certain area of the rotation. If the bobbin is being "squished" in the hook assembly (by either an over-width prewound or a "sprung" refillable bobbin), the thread will be harder to pull out of the needle plate at all times. To get used to what the bobbin tension should feel like, Pull the top thread back and away from the back of the needle, taking care to mentally gauge the resistance... Then pull the bobbin thread as it is coming up and out of the needle plate and compare. Also, take a few seconds to test the resistance of the bobbin thread as it is pulled up and out of the needle plate when your tension is good and get used to the feel of this resistance. Before too long, you will be able to instantly feel the correct tension and recogniize any oversize bobbin problems. Hope this helps!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonwoman Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I had this happen to me some time ago and I went through every thing anybody had suggested then as a last resort I looked at my bobbin case under a magnifying lamp and found several filiments of thread, (lint?) that started under the backlash spring and flowed up through the opening in the case for the thread and ended wrapped around the little clip that keeps the tension spring inside the bobbin case. took some doing to get it all out of there but it works fine now ps don\'t use dental floss been there did that made a mess even unwaxed. later-dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaii Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Thank you, Tina. Will try your suggestion! I am still not "getting" the tension right - the little "burps" of thread are still happening. I have adjusted my tension, top and bottom, tighter, with some improvement. I have tried prewounds, winding prewounds on the aluminum bobbins, using the same thread on top and on the bottom, changed needles, changed bobbin case, rethreaded, etc. I am beginning to think my Freedom is "ill" and "flu\'ish", the way she spits up thread. Looking for that perfect tension "sweet-spot" and am determined to figure it out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 OK, I\'m officially baffled -- and ecstatic! Gave my baby and the quilt the night off, used the wine and chocolate cure - and it seems to have taken! Examined the bobbin closely, rolled it across the counter to see if it wobbled or rolled "egg-like" - seemed fine. Checked the tension hook on the bobbin case - no obvious impediments, so I didn\'t have to get out the dental floss:P Pulled several yards of thread off the bobbin, put it in the case, prayed hard, and we\'re quilting again! As usual, no real strong idea as to which step changed things, but I think I\'m gonna try half-full bobbins for a while and see if the problem\'s gone. Will keep you posted. Thanks for all the suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Guess I spoke too soon - waaaay too soon. Good news: quilting perfectly, UNTIL..... my needle fell out, hit something below. Good news: needle\'s not broken. BAD news: needle is bent at a 20° angle:( Guess I better check the timing, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 It appears - and I\'m trying to be cautiously optimistic here - that my problem was never the bobbin at all, but the needle. Evidently it had loosened in the needle bar, and according to my techie DH, was occasionally too far forward to allow for the hook to catch the thread. The bobbin thread would then wrap around the post on which the bobbin sits, eventually tightening and breaking - fits all the symptoms. We followed Mark\'s instructions from the Maintenance Class last fall at Innovations: Put in a new needle, move it through the stitching cycle to make sure it doesn\'t hit anything, then try sewing with it. Works like the champ it has always been! Thank you, Mark! Here\'s what the needle looked like (viewer discretion advised!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Oh my goodness, barb!!! :o:o:o:o What time is it at Barb\'s house? Time to get a new needle... Tina Collins, you are AMAZING! You have some terrific perspective. Thanks for all that you do, and the time you give here for us. Wow, we are all so fortunate to have some many wonderful people with a wealth of knowledge to share. I\'m grateful to all of you. Thanks! Shana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lsilver Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 WOW! Now that\'s a bent needle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Wow! Nice needle Barb. I\'m glad that you got it up and going and that the tech class and manual helped out!! :P Take care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylviaJ Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 OUCH!! What a needle bend? This is a question for Mark--- can we use the Schmetz heat tempered needles? I just viewed a video where it was recommended for a Gammill? Is it worth pursuing? Sylvia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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