Lenni vs. Liberty

[threadartist]

Hello. I'm in the process of deciding on whether to get a longarm machine. I think I have narrowed it down to either the Lenni or Liberty. Originally, I was looking at the HQ16 sit down model and then learned about the George. He does look way cool. I hadn't even considered a table model because I didn't think I would have sufficient room but after learning more about these machines, I'm trying hard to fit a table into my room. I have 11 feet plus a few inches to play with.

Having this machine is just for myself and I'm not looking to start a new business so I'm trying to make a good decision and keep it fairly affordable.

After reading comments on the forum, I am concerned about the table and wheels of the Lenni. I understand that the Liberty's wheels are different as well as the table. I also saw a comment about the Lenni not stitching well in certain directions. It was enough to give me pause and consider removing the Lenni from the lineup.

If you had the choice to do a do-over, would you make the same purchase today as you did and buy the Lenni or would you consider waiting and saving up for a different machine?

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions you can lend.

JoJo

[Just Sew Simple]

My Lenni stitches well in all directions. I love her.

[RitaR]

Hi JoJo.

Welcome to the board, and apqs world.. Glad to meet you. Hope we can answer some questions.

OLn our machines, from the milli to Lenni to George: especially with George, just take into consideration of how much room is needed when quilting. If you are say working on Queen sized quilts.. you will probably want more room between the machine and the wall behind it, than you would need/want for domestic sewing of a shirt or blue jeans, wedding gowns, etc.. The quilt top, plus backing and batting is going to take up a lot more room than just the top or backing when you are assembling them to quilt. We moved our 3 corner unit out about a foot and added a surface strip down the one side, and covered with contact paper, and it sets about 30 inches and I find it bulky to handle a large quilt top with that limited space behind. No I don't let anything hang down off the back of the table..

Just like people, or other machines.. some work well all over, some have a hitch now and then.. and please note, the problems were solved in most cases, with tension adjustment, top and bobbin, for that particular thread, or thread/bobbin thread, or thread/quilt/bobbin..

Just like a car. we've found each one has a special speed it seems to run smoother be easier to steer, slow up from and increase to. One we had was 62, one was 59. don't remember the others.. they became automatic to our senses when driving.. one hated 23 would almost die out if we tried to drive that speed. LOL, I didn't believe a friend who had a little Toyota, and if there was a siren within hearing it would die.. I saw it several times and still find it hard to believe.

What I'm saying, if you read back thru threads on other machines, you will find many of the same topics, thus it is not just the Lenni, nor the Lenni Wheels, nor the Table Problems? No idea what that would be that gives an impression of a bad table.. Í have the 2 piece because that was before the one piece table came out, and have seen, used a Lenni on a one piece table, and didn't find a problem with any of them that was not unique to ME, short legs.. too high.. had a welder cut 4"out of the legs Above the top of the height adjustment bolt, and solved that problem, but didn't ruin it for taller people. The adjustment bolts are still there, still work and can be used.

Problems of any kind, seem to be unique to all machines.. a loose screw( mine is loose all the time, not the Lenni's screws, mine) a loose wire, tension too loose on top, bobbin tension too loose/tight.. with particular threads.. Penny, my Lenni, does so not like Bottom line off the cone. Works fine with prefilled bobbins of BL, she loves the less costly, lintier threads.. as well as most of the higher costly threads.. Hates Lava, I gave my sample spool away. Loves Rainbows, Highlights, Brites, neons, etc.

We just have to learn what our machines like for our personal style of quilting, and the settings what threads work on it.. I keep a 3 by 5"spiral notebook handy with the bobbin number, thread Brand, name, color & number.. the top tension setting and the bobbin thread, and tension.. Helps when I'm a brainless witnit and can't remember, and don't want to take the time to reset everything from 0, then I take it to the test, check the stitching out there, and go from there.. if new settings, what is diff?

We just have to learn.. I have to learn.. and I am still learning, and hoping to keep learning.

Other considerations are your age, how many years you think you will be quilting, about how many quilts- bed size not table or throw size- will you quilt per year, times the number of years, divided into the net cost of the machine. That could equal $317.63, or it could equal $17.87 per quilt, then batting and thread costs, electricity, needles, lube, new guides and pig tails, etc.. can all change that perspective.

I blew it when I bought an old machine that worked but was also a 1928 version of a dsm White Rotary to start with.. I'm going to go way over that number of quilts yet this year, so would have been better $$$ ways to save up more and buy a "real' machine, instead of the other and then on to Lenni.

Would I buy a Lenni again, tomorrow? In a heartbeat, would I want anything different? The one piece table, and a feature that's not available for the Lenni and that is the fabric advance. Wheels, they can be changed. Tables, ditto. I love my Lenni, problems when they come up and all.. the biggest problem is keeping himself out of the machine!

RitaR ( guess I'm hyper today, can't sit still and can't stop talking.)

[yeoldeforest]

We have both the Millennium and Lenni. I love both my machines. The Millennium is similar to the Liberty but has a larger throat size. I've noticed no problem with the stitches with the Lenni. We also demo the Lenni...if a customer's playing with the Lenni and really races the machine head or drives really fast, the stitches are not consistent but that's with any of the machines. I educate the customers to stay at a constant and consistent movement speed and not to "race" the machine - in this case, the stitches are caused by operator error. We had one person come in who had one too many drinks at the pizza place next door and she was really racing the machine - we had to cut her off!

Learning to get your thread tension correct is a learning curve on any of the quilting systems. I haven't noticed a difference between the Millennium and Lenni with the stitch quality.

If the Lenni was available when I bought in early 2007 and I wasn't going to run a quilting business, I would have chosen the Lenni. It's such a great value for the money. I haven't seen very many Lenni's back on the market either so if you decide to quilt for customers later, you can always up-grade. Also, we have the one-piece table for the Lenni that is different from Rita's table. I also agree with Rita that the one feature I miss the most on the Lenni is the fabric advance. I don't change the wheels on my Milli so not being able to change the wheels on my Lenni is not a personal issue for me.

Do you have a dealer near you that you could go test drive an APQS quilting system?

[meg_marsh]

Just to let you know - I bought a Millie with a 10' table - my room is 11.5' x 12' and I also have my DSM and ironing board in the same room. It works out great. Have just enough room on both sides of the table and am very happy. I don't make enough huge quilts to worry about a longer table and for me the 10' is perfect.

Good luck in making you decision.

[IBQLTN2]

i am very happy with my Lenni. I bought it used and have not had the first bit of trouble. Although I have only had it for almost 7 weeks I have quilted about 8 quilts so far and I am very impressed with how well it handles. I have two friends who have the Ultimate II and Liberty and they both tried my machine and were very impressed with how well built and how nice it handled. they both remarked what a good job APQS did in keeping the standard of a professional machine intact and scaling it down to a smaller simpler design, but not compromising on either quality or design. If you have the money for the Liberty and feel you want he added feature of power advance or the ability to be computerized then maybe you would want to hold out for a use Liberty or save up for one. If those features are not of importance and you want an awesome machine at an affordable price and can start producing wonderful quilts now then by all means get the Lenni. and no I am not wishing that I could have waited for a different machine as it is not a businiess for me and the Lenni suits my price range just fine. Hope this answers your questions. Jeanne

[countrystitcher]

I have had my Lenni since February and I've quilted several customer quilts. It had a little hick-up at about a month old, but Amy at APQS got me thru it just fine and now it runs like a top. I started 3 years ago with a used Discovery and learned how to quilt without the SR, but certain techniques were not as consistent, like ruler work. So I upgraded to Lenni and have never regretted it. In fact, I just commented to my DH the other night how pleased I was with the Lenni performance and thanked him for letting me upgrade. This got me big points -- the AQS show is in Des Moines this week and I'm game for some tools and books and pantos. Can't wait to shop!!!

I love my Lenni

Sharon

[ffq-lar]

Hi JoJo, the difference in price between the two machines is substancial. They are configured differently and have a vastly different table.

As Rita stated, there is no retro-fit for an auto-advance with the Lenni. (Rita--Den is working on something for you in that area--no promises!)

But it is a sweet machine with the famous APQS workmanship and glorious support!

Figure out how you will use it, where it will live, and how much money you can afford. (Maybe they should hire me to fix the government financial mess- imagine that--figuring out what you can afford before you pay the money!!)

Sorry--got side-tracked there! All our loving input about our lovable machines only tells you what works for us.

Good luck on your search and we all think you have narrowed it down to two great choices!

[threadartist]

Wow... thank you so much for all of the wonderful replies. I'm hoping to make it up to Washington (I think the city is Olympia) to see a machine in person! I don't believe they have a Lenni unfortunately, but will check.

JoJo

[eswindy]

Well I love my Liberty...It never misses a stitch yet. It may have a smaller Throat size, but that has never been a problem for me. Its a perfect reach for my short arms.

[meg_marsh]

JoJo,

The city is Olympia - the store Bayside Quilting. They do not have a Lenni - only the Millie. You might want to call them (google Bayside Quilting for the phone # - great web site) and see if any of their customers in our area have a Lennie & if so maybe they (meaning Pam or Ernie) could contact that customer to see if they might let you come see their machine. I wish you luck - I have had my machine for 3 months now and am so happy - just wish I could quilt better:D

[Sandra Darlington]

Hi JoJo,

I have a Liberty. I looked at and tried various machines at shows for 4 or 5 years (while I was saving) and I also joined this chat to hear what people were saying about APQS in general.

I bought a 2005 used machine directly from APQS back in April 2008 and I love it. My table is cut to 11 feet so it fits in my room. I also thought about a Lenni, but for some reason, I kept going back to the Liberty. I tried Milleniums and Freedoms quite a few times, and most people advised me to go with the larger machine, but I decided the Liberty ws the right fit for me.

I like the fabric advance and the heavier table that my Liberty has. But, on the flip side, a brand new Lenni is considerably less money than my 2005 Liberty was, plus I only have a one year warrenty and a new machine has a 3 year warrenty. The Lenni has about 3+ additional inches of quilting space than the Liberty has. They are both 20" heads, but due to a different configuration of the Lenni, you get more quilting space. That's a definate plus. I can only quilt 12 inches.

So, there are pros and cons and individual taste to consider in making your decision. I wrote many posts asking questions about these machines, so if you do a search you can read all about the responses I received from people on the chat. If I had to do it all over again...yes, I would still want a Liberty. Also, I am not in business, either, but perhaps when I retire I will start something very small for some supplimental cash. For this purpose both machines would be fine.

Perhaps, if money is an issue, you could let your local rep, or APQS know you want to be put on a list for a factory certified used Lenni. When one is available you would be notified.

Good luck with your decision.

[Just Sew Simple]

BTW, Jojo, I asked for the solid table and got one. I love that it doesn't come appart. Each has their advantage but the solid table was the right choice for me! Good luck with your decision.

[SandraG]

Threadartist,

I sent you a U2U.

Sandra