Copyright question

[donna sco]

Researching through the archieve on copyright I find questions on quilt patterns and changing sizes of pantographs. What about the quilting design books that we use to learn how to quilt? One book says for personal use. A new DVD says all rights reserved on the DVD. Does that mean that we can practice with these designs but have to change/invent the patterns into our own interpretations to use them?

Many of the books I have purchases seem to have the same background and fills patterns from book to book.

[Bonnie]

. One book says for personal use. A new DVD says all rights reserved on the DVD. .

My rule of thumb for my personal interest has been if the book says for personal use....I call the author and get what his/her meaning is...most have said that it means just that for my personal use only...not to be used on a project meant for sale or reproductions of mass with intent to make a profit. Others have said that I can make items for resale as long as I include the original pattern with the finished project...and can make as many as I wish as long as I have a pattern attached (not a photocopy of the pattern)...I personally thought that silly, but that's what they said.

This did not include for gift giving so if you have a quilt you intend to do and want to use the pattern on a gift then most generally say yes.

As for us using them multi times for profit in quiting on a customer quilt....that is where you will need to call them and get their meaning, again each has told me a different thing. On reason I didn't get into pantos when I started....now this information may be out dated by a few years, but only the author can clear up their meaning.

Now the All rights reserved on the DVD could be the same meaning or it could also include that you can not duplicate the DVD for profit or any portion of it with intent to make a profit from resale or including in something you are creating for profit. Like a DVD with similar things.

I find that most authors answer their own phones and will ALWAYS answer emails....

[quiltmonkey]

Good advice from Bonnie. I have found that either email or call the copyright owner to ask what they accept. I have done this before (email) and I think they really appreciate that we show respect for them when we ask before we do. Most times (99%) they say OK and they really are glad you asked them. I find that those who own patterns are happy to accommodate us quilters (or provide options); Read the fine print and we just should always ask whenever in doubt. Most times it's all a happy solution for everyone.

[smockingRN]

What a great topic! I'm no expert, but I believe copyright protects the actual printed work, so we MAY NOT make a copy of a printed design or panto and give it away, or sell it. Copyright does not apply to useful articles, like cars, dresses, or quilts. When you paid for the pattern, panto, etc, you paid for the right to USE it! The designer has no right to tell you what you may or may not do with your finished article. You can keep it for yourself, give it away, or sell it. The designer does NOT have the right to tell you how many articles you may sell, either, although some try to tell you so on their patterns. They can't make you buy a license to sell either...Shame on them!

There is a great website called Tabberone, owned by an Ebay seller who has been to court defending her rights in this question....Take a look!

Karen in La.

[ffq-lar]

Thank you so much, Karen! I have interpreted copyright to be just that--the printed item cannot be COPIED in any way, whether to sell, share, or give away. All income from this printed item belongs to the author.

It seemed counter-intuitive to read on a pattern (especially pantos) that the person who purchases it can only use it a finite number of times or further payment must be made to the designer. I agree--shame on them!

It's so nice to see a logical interpretation of copyright as it pertains to the quilting industry.

[Quilting Heidi]

I wonder how many panto's would be sold if you could only use it once and then have to buy another one to use it for another customer. I wouldn't be buying that is for sure. I have always thought that copywrite meant that you could not reproduce the pattern and sell it to make a profit and nothing more. I can't even imagine somebody telling me that if I buy a pattern I could only use it once and if I wanted to make another I'd have to buy another pattern.

[Bonnie]

Actually it does go further than just protection of a photocopy or you making a duplicate of a DVD....it does actually stop you from using the product with the initent of making a profit. There are some patterns out there that actually state that you can only make a certain number of quilts from their pattern, without purchasing another pattern, and some state, that you can't make a quilt with the intent of a sale...which means you can't make several for sale....making a commissioned quilt for a customer doesn't count....it's when you make several of the same pattern and sell in a craft booth. Which stops those of use who wish to make quilts for sale in a shop or booth.

This also includes several Pantos that I have....if you read the panto artist's copy right some say for personal use, which does not include using their pattern for customer quilts.

We all know that the quilt police aren't going to come to our homes and check to see how many we are using and for what, but if you were to start a store with quilts for sale you could get into a mess if they happened to see something of theirs.

In the embroidery world I have seen personally where somone lost not only their computer but there sewing machine and ALL related items that were used in their business for using a design that wasn't approved for sale by the artist. NOW I'm talking sbout someone huge like Disney, but a friend of mine took a coloring book and digitized a unauthorized POO design and stupid her actually wore it to Disneyland in CA....it wasn't very long before they were knocking at her house and took iti all. So from this time forward I have been very careful in copyrights, until then I wasn't above sharing and lending out stuff....I like what I have to much now to not be a bit more careful and ask if I have a question related to something.

I even went so far to call a artist to get permission for the use of a YELLOW BRICK ROAD because I wanted to use the pattern for a donation quilt to the fire department here that was going to be used for a raffle for a family who lost everything, and their copyright states ,"NOT TO BE USED FOR PROFIT" When I called Terry she thanked me for the call gave her permission with a smile and all was happy.

My best suggestion is to be smart and careful....the police aren't going to come to you and randomly go through stuff to check out the useage of a item, but be aware and ask if your not sure.

[quiltmonkey]

Don't get too carried away... Repeated use of a panto is like reading a book two or three times... Stephen King isn't going to make my buy another copy of Pet Cemetary if I want to read it again, is he??? Nooo! What am I going to do with two copies of Pet Cemetary on my book case? Haaa!

Bottom line is, when in doubt, ask. If what your gut tells you so and it "feels" inappropriate it might be true .... However, most times, it's all OK and fine, but always try to be respectful of the copyright owner's work. If they designed it, they own it. If you want to duplicate it or use it in a fashion they might not have intended, it's always a nice gesture to contact them for permission. Especially when making lots of photo copies and handing it out to friends, or when you use their design in a publication and charge a fee (for profit) for those people to buy that publication - which you did not design. Most times copyright owners are flattered you asked and respected their copyright and in general have never said "no." It's all good and always good practice to respect copyright owners.

[Bonnie]

Originally posted by quiltmonkey

Don't get too carried away... Repeated use of a panto is like reading a book two or three times... Stephen King isn't going to make my buy another copy of Pet Cemetary if I want to read it again, is he??? Nooo! What am I going to do with two copies of Pet Cemetary on my book case? Haaa!

Bottom line is, when in doubt, ask. If what your gut tells you so and it "feels" inappropriate it might be true .... However, most times, it's all OK and fine, but always try to be respectful of the copyright owner's work. If they designed it, they own it. If you want to duplicate it or use it in a fashion they might not have intended, it's always a nice gesture to contact them for permission. Especially when making lots of photo copies and handing it out to friends, or when you use their design in a publication and charge a fee (for profit) for those people to buy that publication - which you did not design. Most times copyright owners are flattered you asked and respected their copyright and in general have never said "no." It's all good and always good practice to respect copyright owners.

That's what I was trying to say, but got hoof and mouth disease instead..... LOL.....

[hollyc]

one of the recent quilt magazines just had an article on copyright that was interesting, may answer some questions...I think it might have been McCalls?

[ffq-lar]

Disney is tenacious in going after unauthorized uses or their copyrighted images. That's why Bonnie's friend was in such trouble with her self-digitized Pooh! That is such a no-no!

I worked in cake decorating for a while and people always wanted something copied--either a photo, cartoon, or even a napkin (as in--please put this flower on the napkin all over the cake so everything "matches" at the shower.) Nope--nothing with a copyright was ever allowed. A competitor offered a Big Bird cake without compensation to the Jim Henson company and suffered a $30,000 fine!

[SandraG]

Watch out for collegiate and any national organization fabrics. There are so many people around here who make stuff with LSU fabric and sell it at craft shows. LSU prosecutes and so does the NFL. Of course, sometimes the NFL loses. The NFL found out that it does not own the term "who dat." However, it is prosecuting people who use "who dat" with the Saints logo. If it its printed on the fabric "not for resale" -- do make something out of the fabric -- someone (and not Drew Brees) may come knocking at your door.

I am personally trying to buy fewer patterns and use EQ more.

As a quilt shop owner, I have seen people buy a pattern and then make 25 or more copies. That is what the designers are trying to stop. I don't think it will ever stop but I think people will become more aware of the issue.

Sandra

[smockingRN]

Ladies, if you have questions re copyright, take a look at Tabberone's website. She has taken copyright holders to court, and won. She shares many examples of home sewers and small business owners winning against big corporations, including Disney. Just because someone tells you what you may or may not do does not make it the law. We have to question pseudo-authority!

Her website explains a legal doctrine of First Sale...in simple terms, once something is sold, the seller no longer has control of what is done with it, EXCEPT COPYING, of the actual printed pattern, or digital instructions is forbidden.

As for someone coming into a home and confiscating sewing machines...We have laws against illegal search and seizure...This lady needed a lawyer and enough gumption to fight for her rights!

None of us want to deprive any designer of his or her bread and butter...but noone can tell you what you can do with your own sewn articles!

Karen in La.

[RoseCity Quilter]

I looked at the copyright info on my panto's today and they said for Professional Quilters use. I take that to mean I can use it on customer quilts.

[shirleyl]

I posted a quilt not too long ago on the website, wanted to enter the fair and shows. Some shows require the pattern designers permission to show the quilt. So I requested permission from the designer via e-mail, I was told to please show it as much as I wanted too!. I printed out a copy of the e-mail and put it with the pattern and other information on the quilt in a book, that I will keep these sort of things in.

I am not afraid to ask permission or questions of designers and most are very gracious about being contacted. I could see someone getting ticked off for getting their award winning quilt copied and then claimed as their own. Some rights are enevitable and should be assumed. I only buy panto's that don't say they can be used only this many times unless I really like them. I just mark them as I use them. If I did a large number of customer quilts I probably wouldn't buy them if they had a designated number at all.

All most all of my quilts are gifts, my own personal ones or commissioned. I feel if I bought the pattern book I should be able to make the quilts in them. The designers are entitled to their rights and most only want the recognition deserved if you ask them. On the quilt I got permission for I showed on the label the pattern name and designer as if I was asked in the future I wouldn't have to tax what few brain cells I have left.

Copyrights have their place and most of the time it is just so someone doesn't make a whole bunch of their item and make a business or major profit from it. I have found most is just a misunderstanding and communication is important. If I bought a book and wanted to sell a bunch of quilts from it, unless it says in the front of the book that I cannot make them for profit I would use them. But if I planned on selling a bunch of them I would contact the designer or book writer and just explain what I wanted to do. They have to make money at it also. Some people will buy a pattern and knock out 25-50 of them and sell them at a tidy sum. I personally think there should be a limit you can make and SELL from a given pattern, since that is 25-50 patterns that the designer could have sold. The majority don't mind you making one or two of them, personally I won't usually make more than one because I get bored with them. It is the poeple that abuse the system that have created the monster.

Unless you are speaking of Major League Ball Clubs, College Sports Logo's or Disney, ETC. I have seen alot of abuse of college logo's such as the Wyoming Cowboy on the bucking bronco. So it is best to just stay away from those things.

Personal opinion, but I would say use common sense, If they sell Buzz and Woody Bed sets, don't think you can make a Buzz and Woody quilt selection and sell it and not draw attention. Now for personal use for my grandson, maybe, but that might even be pushing it. That is why it is called marketing!!! Even if you only cut them out of $30 from KMart, they get mad and they have the bucks to make an example out of us little guys. Most of us don't have the money or time to fight these things, so if in doubt don't do it.

Sorry I went on a rant, but if you design a pattern and sell it, put yourself in their shoes, most just want the recognition and the sale of the pattern.

Shirley

[Ferret]

Originally posted by hmerrill

I wonder how many panto's would be sold if you could only use it once and then have to buy another one to use it for another customer. I wouldn't be buying that is for sure. I have always thought that copywrite meant that you could not reproduce the pattern and sell it to make a profit and nothing more. I can't even imagine somebody telling me that if I buy a pattern I could only use it once and if I wanted to make another I'd have to buy another pattern.

I have a panto that says you may use it X times. No definition of what one time would be. It could be one following of the whole line or if could be a whole quilt. I've never used it or bought anything else from that designer. I have another that says not for commercial use. Ditto.

Ferret

[Primitive1]

I found that Tabberone website very interesting.....so I understand from it that once you purchase a pattern and use it for what it was intended for, you have the freedom to do what you wish with the quilt that you made...?

[SandraG]

Karen,

Thanks for the website info. it is very enlightening!

Sandra