Sparkle Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I will just state the facts and hopefully someone will have a solution. 1999 Ultimate II with inconsistant stitching on the bottom of the quilt. Just when you think the tension setting is fine and you are stitching along it will mess up. Warm and Natural batting, flannel backing, pieced top. Bottom line thread in the bobbin, Superior King Tut in the top. New MR. 4 needle. Clean and oiled machine and bobbin race. Running at about 4.5 to 5 speed. New APQS bobbin case with new aluminum bobbin wound on K-Kraft bobbin winder. Looks like a good wind. Tried a prewound and that made the stitching worse. I can't feel any burrs on the bobbin race, that doesn't mean there aren't any. Hope my pictures come through. Help! ---thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenscratch Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hey girl. How are you? Not so great right this minute, huh? I've had this problem on my Ultimate II. Here's a list of things to try. Is the quilt sandwich too tight in the rollers?It should have a fair amount of release, not saggy, but not tight. Are you moving too fast or too slow for the speed you have it set for? Since it looks like your problems are in the curves you might be, without realizing it. Do a drop test on your bobbin. It should fall freely between 1 and 2 inches, then stop. If it goes further you need to tighten a little, but I'm betting you need to loosen it a little bit. Tighten the top tension one little click at a time. Last thing you might try. Check to see if your needle is in good and straight. YOu can stick a pin through the eye of the needle to check. Even a tiniest degree of turn seems to make a difference. Hope something works. If not call me and I'll see if I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryRogers Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Try a larger needle and slightly turn it to the left (slightly). If that does not help, tighten the screw on the end of the tension unit and if that doesnt help, or doesnt turn any tighter, make a note of where the check spring rests. (IE: 9 oclock etc) loosen the tension unit with the set screw at back side of head. Adjust the position of the unit and setting it at about 11 oclock. Tighten the unit back up and see if that helps. Make sure you do not set it toooooo close to the machine or it will not move up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrna Ficken Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Did you try to tighten the top thread? How is the tension on the bobbin when you do a drop test? Myrna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Thank you everyone for your prompt replies and suggestions. I'm working on some of them! I have removed the quilt and put a practice muslin sample back on to work with. Will keep you posted to the progress at the end of the day! I'm not going to attempt anything to mechanical at this point. Just working with tensions primarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I am getting a good balanced stitch now. The loopys seem to be gone. I did find what I think is rough area on the bobbin assembly at the rotory hook. I found it by running a piece of nylon panty hose down through the hole in the bobbin assembly. I emeryed it out. However, I continue to get breaking thread about every 25 or so inches of meander quilting. I am running at about 5 now on the speed dial. Still using the same threads. I have used Sewers Aide on the thread. Checked and rechecked my thread path. I did have to turn the pig tail thread guide over on the front just above the needle, as it has some deep grooves in it from monofiliment thread being used on the machine by the previous owner. I plan to order two new thread guides tomorrow. Sorry, Sherri I don't have any larger needles than MR. 4.0 at this time. I will order some, although the owners manual insist that MR. 4's are the best for this machine. I think my co-ordination and movement is even, but I have not had this machine very long. I have quilted in the past with a smaller home set up and not had problems keeping a fairly even speed. I have run the machine forward, and back in a straight line, then a 45 degree angle. Everything looks good. It's when I start meandering and curving that it starts breaking thread. Also, I find at times when pulling on the thread through the needle it is loose, and other times it's hard to pull. Yet, I can't find any reason in the thread path for this to happen. It really pulls the check spring down hard when it's the tight feeling. Other times it's just fine. When the thread snaps. it's not a fraying along the edge of the thread, but more like a snap. I'm going to change to Aurifil thread and see if that helps. Be back online tomorrow, and if anyone has some other helpful hints, please let me know. It has been a frustrating puzzle so far. My feeling is it's the needle size, the thread , or my movement at this time. But, looking at the pictures you can see my stitches are pretty evenly spaced. I'm not bunching up stitches or making tiny stitches....Back to the drawing board! Thank you everyone! This is great to be able to bounce ideas back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 New day---new attempt to solve the thread breaking. My tensions are all working well now. I removed the Superior "King Tut" thread and put a cone of Perma Core Poly 30 tex. on and not one thread break. I then thought to tempt fate and put some Superior Sew-Fine on the machine---and again, no thread breaks. My problem seems to be not only that my tensions were off, I had a burr on the rotary hook ---but, the King Tut is simply not working at this time on my machine. Now--my new problem is how to use the many cones of King Tut I now have? I did take Sherri's advice and ordered MR 4.5 needles this morning from APQS. Do you think that will help with the cotton King Tut? How about freezing it to get some moisture back into it? Possibly a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sparkle, never hurts to try the freezing, but you didn't really say how old the Tut is....I have some that is over 3 years old, and it is just now starting to break bad....In knowing I have pulled down several layers of thread...I know its a waste, but the breaking stopped. Tut might be one of the threads that has a short shelf life...or at least be aware that it starts to break down faster than some of the others out there. Its one that I will remember that I need to use up faster than some of the poly-cores, and maybe take better care of now that I live in a very high humidity area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I have a dumb question....If Tut breaks down like that...what will it do in a quilt? Over time, with wash-n-wear, won't it fall apart there too?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerri Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 With regards to the grooves - try fishing guide eyes. The same ones that you find on fishing poles work great on your machine. Since I added those to my machine 2 years ago I never have grooves and they are still on the machine. Prior to that I was changing the guides every couple of months and I never used:o monofilament. I never use King Tut thread for the very reason that you posted - there are too many beautiful threads IMHO to spend time and stress over. I tried 3 different color combinations and had the same problem so I pitched the thread and moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FowlManorQuilting Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Mary Beth, that is exactly what I wondered when I read it breaks down. I have some threads that are at least 10 years old and they work just fine (all cotton) but if some of the newer threads have such a short life span it could be detrimental to the quilts I put together. Hope someone comes back with an answer to this! Glo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Ladies, I don't have the whole answer, but I do know with working with threads in a fabric store that if you take a piece about 12 inches long, between your hands and give it a gentle tug it should not break....IF it does the two different store owners that I worked with would say it was a bad spool of thread and not sell it to the customer. Both store owners were machine dealers as well as sold all kinds of quilting supplies...and if I needed thread to quilt someones quilt and it didn't pass the tug test we didn't use it. Now how does it hold up in a quilt...I can't say, I honestly have never had a quilt fail and have threads to start to pop. I think this is a question for Superior Threads....I know that they have taught classes on this subject. What was said in the classes? I haven't taken one so I too am interested in what was said. I have heard several mention that if a spool was bad that they got it replaced right away....what was the gauge for that to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltjunkie Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sparkle, I use King Tut almost exclusively, your top tensioin was was too loose by those pictures you posted, but having said that I did get one spool of bad KT and it just wouldn't go more than 2 inches with out breaking. I tried for several attempts but just switched to a different spool of thread. I returned it to Superior and they exchanged it for me, they were as surprised as I was that the KT was a problem, so I wouldn't worry about your supply of KT, it could have been just one of those "bad" spools. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramona-quilter Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sparkle, It sounds like you have all the right things going for you. And, I might add that your stitch length is very consistent for a non-SR machine. Way better than mine ever was on the Ultimate I before I got the Intellistitch. When I have patches of bad tension preceded and followed by good tension, I almost always find that I have the phantom crud in my bobbin case. Flannel plus Warm & Natural cotton plus cotton King Tut are a formula for fluff build-up. And when it is intermittent, I think that the crud-blob just moves around as the bobbin turns. Not a pretty picture, huh? I adore King Tut thread but it does need special handling and tension settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltingtina Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Ahh....the phantom crud strikes again! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 HI Hester and Ramona, When you say you like King Tut, but it "needs some special handling", could you explain in more detail exactly what you are doing to use this thread successfully. Needle size, thread lubricant? or not. Tension settings? etc. I'm attaching a picture of a quilt I just took off the frame. This is a charity quilt for our guild, so a simple meander is all I did on it. I never underestimate meander as it tells me everything about tension and movement on the machine. I have to curve and move around over the quilt a lot, if anything is off kilter---Meander is going to let me know for sure. This was a flannel top, and a flannel bottom. Warm and Natural batting. Lavender Bottom line thread in the bobbin. Mint Green Perma-Core thread on the top. MR 4.0 needle. Not one thread break at all. I did the entire quilt on one bobbins worth of thread. I'm using one of the newer aluminum bobbins. My tensions appear perfect. No "thread pokies" either. I am thrilled....with the exception of having 7 fairly new spools of King Tut sitting on my sewing table---and me wondering if I should even attempt to keep and use this thread ---or chalk it up to a bad experience and move on to buying more So-Fine or Perma-Core. Please let me know how you overcame King Tut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrystitcher Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 So interesting that we all have our issues with thread isn't it. I have found King Tut to be my very favorite. I use a loose bobbin and tight top tension and no problems, BUT let me put in So Fine and I'm fighting it all the way. I think a lot of this has to do with "operator" issues; correct me if I'm wrong. I'll be the first to admit I do much trial and error with a new quilt in the machine than I want to. I just bought a new TOWA gauge because so many of you recommended it. I'm hopeful it will be of great help -- once I figure it out that is. Sharon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramona-quilter Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sparkle, After some playing around with tension, what works for me and King Tut is tight top tension and loose (almost sloppy) bobbin tension; on the Towa gauge, the bobbin, I like Bottom Line, is set between 12 - 14. I agree with Teresa's (Chicken Scratch) list of tension trouble shooting ideas. When I was first starting out, I kept my quilt so tight on the rollers, you could almost bounce a quarter off the quilt. I had lots of problems with thread breaking. One class with Myrna Ficken showed me the error of my ways. I have ZERO tension problems with Perma-Core and So Fine. But sometimes you just need the variegated and for me, that means KT. Let us know how you make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judi Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I have read through all of these posts and you have been given great ideas and looks it like you are trying all of the right things.... One other hint that I have for you, and this was told to me by a person at Superior threads, when using the King Tut - I was getting loops of the top thread on the back of the quilt. Not all the time, maybe once or twice in a whole row.... She told me to but the cone of King Tut upside-down and try it that way. Don't ask me how - but it DID help! Now was it turning the cone over or re-threading the machine?.... I do perfer the perma-core I have many cones from A & E and they just do NOT break! Great stuff.... although I think I do have a bad cone that does. I will have to try what Bonnie said and take off some layers and see if that helps. Good Luck and let us know how you are doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Judi, I haven't given up entirely on the King Tut thread. I have seven cones of it. 4 still in the wrappers. I have used it on my previous quilting system without any problems. I ordered some larger needles (MR 4.5), and I needed some new pigtail thread guides for the machine. They should come tomorrow. If I can't get Tut to run smoothly with loosening the tensions---and Thank you for the "turning the cone upside down" tip---then I'm not going to spend a great deal of time trying to get it to work as there are other threads that work very well and come in lots of colors, and cost way less to use. Thanks for writing. I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9patch Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I attended Bob's (Superior Threads) lecture at a quilt show. I can't find my notes (so what else is new!) but, if I remember right, he puts the shelf life of today's threads at at least 10 years. I remember being relieved because I tend to buy thread on spec at shows. This "shelflife" would relate to the thread's viability for stitching. I don't think you need to worry about any thread once it is in a quilt. "Sitting" there in place is no way near as stressful as the wear and tear a thread sustains while it is run through our machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Yesterday my new thread guides and MR. 4.5 needles arrived. I had loaded a practice piece onto the frame in anticipation of the package from APQS (which I requested be sent Priority shipping)--- I loosened the top tension just a bit more, inserted the needle per Sherry R. advice, took the thread from the freezer and let it sit for a bit. The King Tut with Bottom Line with Warm n' Natural batt stitched out beautifully!!!! I'm so glad! I think it was just a combination of wrong size needles, dried out thread and top tension just a tad too tight. Thank you everyone for your good advice! I've noticed how all of you are so friendly and helpful. I'm new at this machine, and it's nice to know I can come here and ask a question and get such prompt and helpful advice. I truly appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennan100 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Sparkle, That's great! I knew that with this many people working at it you'd be able to get it figured out! Just have to break the code! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judi Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Kenna - you are funny! Just need to "break the code" hmmm.... sounds like a good catch phrase for a movie!! Have you seen that one? I read the book but have not seen the movie yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennan100 Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Wish I could take the credit for that. Actually, it's a reference to a book on quilting designs by Christine Olson! Here the link! http://columbiariverquilting.com/christine_olson_breaking_the_code.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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