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Read the threads...still need help


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I’m hoping someone will be able to determine the actual problem and guide me in the right direction.  I’ll try to make this concise, but that’s not always easy for me, especially with so many things going wrong at the same time. 

 

To set the stage our friend, local quilt shop owner and longarmer came over to use Millie on Sunday.  Her customer’s king size quilt would have taken her days to finish on her machine and frame and she wanted to knock it out quickly (e2e).  I’m not sure how much this has to do with anything but the top fabric was more on the line of a light weight upholstery fabric, really dense and much heavier than quilting cotton.  The backing was some other material, similar to cotton but a little stretchy, definitely not something we would typically use for a quilt.  Colette called it something that I wasn’t familiar with...she wasn’t real thrilled about her customer’s choice of either fabric.  Top and bottom thread would be Aurifil.

 

To start there were tension issues, not sure if it was the fabric, thread or Colette not being used to our machine although she’s used it before without issues.

 

Then it occasionally made an unfamiliar sound like metal striking metal somewhere in the head unit. Initially we thought it might have something to do with the speed Colette was quilting and it was some sort of backlash of the SR trying to compensate.  It didn’t sound like it was coming from the needle/bobbin area.

 

Then the needle broke.   Again, I’m not sure if was the weight of the fabric causing it to flex enough to hit something or Colette.  As we were still having tension issues we decided to try some prewound bobbins.  Things went along ok for awhile and then there was a thread break.  Colette noticed the needle was hitting and tearing up the cardboard on the bobbin.  I checked the bobbin case and found the spring wasn’t seated properly, I reseated the spring and thought the problem was solved...wrong!.  It worked fine for about 20 minutes and the noise started again...actually a different noise.  The new noise is more like a rapid clicking when the needle is going through the fabric almost like it’s popping the the thread through the fabric.  

 

I just don’t have enough experience to tell what all these sounds really mean.

 

Up to this point Millie has performed flawlessly.  Initially, we thought it might be the bobbin case and/or spring, but I’m really not sure.  Regardless, it was one of those spare parts I meant to buy but didn’t...not to mention it was late Sunday afternoon.  So, we called it quits and I searched for parts on the internet.  A special thanks here to Angela Huffman of Quilted Joy for going in on her day off and filing my order...now that’s customer service.  

 

I just checked everything I could think of, I removed the needle plate so I could look at the hook from the top for any burrs or nicks, didn’t see or feel anything...even used a magnifying glass and super-bright light.  

 

Perhaps one of you can help me out as I sit here and wait for my spare parts.  I’m so hoping a new bobbin case or spring is the solution, better yet, you’ll tell me it’s a normal sound and there’s nothing wrong...Yea RIGHT, it’s never that easy for me!

 

 

ps,

please don't misread this, I'm not blaming our friend Colette for any of this.  She is a talented and gifted longarmer…she just quilts a lot faster than we do.

 

pss,

how's that for consice?  I edited this down from 12 pages.   :D 

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Have you tried going back to a more "traditional" sandwich, maybe one you've practiced on successfully in the past?  That would help eliminate the fabric and batting as the culprits, assuming the thread breakage continues.  Then change out the thread to a cone that you've used successfully, to see whether the top thread is the issue.

 

The first sound may very well be related to the improperly-seated backlash spring - that would allow the bobbin (metal, I presume?) to come in contact with the needle.  And could result in a broken needle, just what you saw happen.

 

The second noise sounds more like a dull needle or one with a burr on the tip - try changing the needle before you do anything else and see if that sound - and the thread breakage - stops.

 

If you're still having no luck, get back on here, and we'll see what we can do to help!!

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I quilted a similar quilt - fortrel polyester, crazy quilted, with thick seams.

 

I had to raise the hopping foot, and slow down.  (significantly!)  There will be more drag on the thread going through the thicker, top layer, and through the stretchy back.  If you slow down the thread will have longer to get down and back through those layers, the needle needs to come up a smidge higher compared to 100% cotton.  

 

These fabrics will dull your needle quicker than quilting cottons.  Also check that your needle is seated properly with the indented part faces the back, and eye slightly turned past 6 o'clock.  

 

I will be interested to see how it goes for you.  

 

Joanne Flamand

APQS Sales and Education, Canada

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Barb and Joanne, thanks for the great advice and suggestions.  I'll let you know how we make out.  I'm hoping in the end the problem is the weird combination of fabrics and we haven't damaged the machine.

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If I may make a suggestion,  call Amy at APQS, she is a wonder at diagnosing a problem thru the phone..  Just by hearing it.

 

She may have additional suggestions on things to check or try.

 

She is a Wonder.. a real one!

 

Rita

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Nothing is hurt that can't be fixed.  Deep breath, my friend!  Try out a normal quilt sandwich and see if you see a difference.  I shred cardboard all the time on my bobbins.  No real issue there.   But you also know I quilt fast!

 

Was she driving the whole time you were seeing the issue or did it make the start noise when you were driving?   Remember when we talked about the needle flexing in class?  I am wondering if it was just that she was moving fast and the fabric is stiff.   

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Angela...Colette was driving, Michelle and I were observing.  Michelle didn't think she was quilting any faster than either of us would.  Good to know about the cardboard, just everything was happening at the same time, broken needle, shredded bobbins, unfamiliar noises…gets a little scary.

 

On Amy's advice I adjusted the needle bar…she didn't think it was a major issue because it was still stitching.  Seems to have helped some but it's still clicking.  Starting to sound like an A-1or Nolting…not knocking their machines but an APQS doesn't sound like them  (IMHO, based on the videos I've seen and heard).

 

Didn't want to disturb Colettes quilt, but I'm going to pull it off the frame and put a normal practice sandwich on and see if we can eliminate the fabric being the problem.

 

Pat, I'm using 18/4.0 needles…too new at this to know what needles to use with different fabrics, so that could be part of the problem.  But when the noise first started a new needle was put in and it broke immediately.  I think it wasn't seated properly.  Since then there's been two new needles (close attention paid to making sure it was as high as it could go in the needle bar) to rule out burrs making the fabric pop…no more broken needles, I'm pretty sure that problem was user error.

 

to be continued...

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If the clicking is dependent on the direction you are quilting I would think that is being caused by needle flex.  I think a shorter stitch should help.  Too much flex and you can break needles.  If you don't have any spares Amy used to have a package of common parts (bobbin case, pigtails assorted screws etc.).  I think fifty dollars or less should fix you up.

 

Nigel

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Thanks Nigel, I think you're on the right track.  Got a few spare parts yesterday, hopefully I'll get it back to normal shortly.  

 

Just visited Angela Clark of Thread Waggle Quilting at her soon to be open new shop.  She was kind enough to diagnose my problem from a video I shot so she could actually hear the clicking noise.  She's pretty sure it's a needle flex issue too, she explained how to check and adjust the air gap…hopefully I'll retain the info until I get home.  She also provided me with instructions on adjusting the top thread tensioner as we got that totally whacked out also…THANKS ANGELA!!!   You're the BEST!

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The clicking has subsided somewhat, but is still present.  To this point I've cleaned everything, checked for burrs where the needle may have hit (still can't find the spot), checked that the hook didn't have any play on the shaft and adjusted the needle bar.  Since Amy initially felt I wouldn't need to do a complete retiming I'll check with her tomorrow to see if she has any other thoughts before proceeding with the retiming.

 

We've ruled out the fabric being the problem, I put on a typical practice sandwich and it didn't seem to make a difference.  I made a few passes with pre-wound and turbo wound bobbins to work through my tension issues.  Stitches looked pretty good on the top and bottom and no broken needles, so I invited Colette back to finish her quilt.  She still had 2/3 of a king size quilt to do but she knocked it out without any issues.  The clicking noise didn't get any better or worse, just annoying...especially knowing it shouldn't sound that way.

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  • 8 months later...

For the thicker fabrics, vinyl, fupholstery like light weight with slight rubbery back will all improve immensely with silicone spray.

That stuff works wonders,

 

Good Luck, Rita

 

P.S. don't  spray large areas.. across a reg. quilt, or half way across a king size, depending on density of quilting, and you should do good.  when I'm medium meandering a

quilt, I usually spray about a 3 foot sized area or square.

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