Tension Problems

[momtoaj]

My partner & I share an APQS Millennium. We have had the machine since September '06. We continue to have tension problems & cannot seem to figure it out. Todays details are:

Christmas Quilt

Muslin Backing

Signature Thread

3.5 Needle

Warm Co. 80/20 Warm Bond Batting

Stitch Regulator On

We are doing a holly border with a Green Signature Thread on the top & a Beige Signature Thread in the bobbin. Every holly leaf has the green thread coming through to the back at each of the points. Almost like a knot is being formed on the back of the quilt. Is this normal? Are we just being too critical? Is this brand of batting just not thick enough? Does the stitch regulator being turned on cause more tension problems?

Any suggestions you could give would be appreciated.

[quiltmonkey]

Hi. Stitch regulator and batting shouldn't be an issue. If you are using signature thread, try using a larger needle like size 4.0. I have been successful using different color threads on top and bottom without it poking through on back, so yes you should adjust your tension (both top and bottom). First loosen your bobbin tension so it drops slowly and steadily like a spider does on a web. Then, on the top tension, continue to tighten until you start to see a wee bit of the bobbin thread poking up (slightly peeking through) in the hole that the stitch makes on the top. Then, just loosen your TOP tension 1/4 to 1/2 turn on top only. Test to see if you are getting better results. I use signature thread a lot and it works great but causes a lot of lint. I blow the lint out of my bobbin every with bobbin change. I also spray a good dose of WD 40 in there to get my bobbin area nice and lubed and clean. I have noticed that using WD40 liberally in my bobbin to really clean it is giving me some much better results with my quilting. After the WD40 dose, wipe out and machine oil the bobbin race. Hope things get better for you!

[Quilting Heidi]

I used to have a very similar problem until I started using Shana's method described above. Now I have beautiful stitches back and front. I also had to adjust the little springy thing in the bobbin case. It was a little too flat.

[momtoaj]

Thanks for your responses. We will try all of the suggestions to see if things get better. We both work so probably won't get back to it until tomorrow evening.

I will keep you posted on our progress.

Thanks!

[susanramey]

Shana,

Do you spray the WD40 in both the bobbin area and the bobbin case? Follow up with oil in both areas as well?

Thanks--Susan

[ramona-quilter]

Hi AJ's mom,

Like Shana, I use a lot of Signature. But I really let the batting dictate the bobbin color for me. If my customer wants Hobbs or Warm and Anything, they get the same color bobbin as I am using on the top. The thin batting doesn't allow alot of room to make a good stitch anyway so if you have even a slight tension problem, you are going to get pokies. When the top thread is a vastly different color, you will see the pokies more.

I use Quilter's Dream deluxe cotton batting which is a bit heavier and that has room to make a good stitch. So does wool and Warm's Soft & Bright, and some other batts.

I agree with Shana about keeping the bobbin area clean. I also blow out my bobbin area with every bobbin change; I use my Towa gauge to check my new bobbin's tension before I put it in. Cotton makes a lot of fluff. If I see a high or skipped stitch, I stop and clean the bobbin area immediately.

Let us know how you fare with your machine tonight.

[Bonnie]

Originally posted by susanramey

Shana,

Do you spray the WD40 in both the bobbin area and the bobbin case? Follow up with oil in both areas as well?

Thanks--Susan

I'm not Shana...but will try to answer for her. First I take my extended base off so I can see down into the bobbin area from the needle plate area, and then Yes I use the WD40 liberally (just spray the beegees out of it from the front of the machine as well as down from the needle plate area...) and while you are spraying the bobbin area....your machine should be running at a fairly high speed....I run mine about speed 8-9....be careful to not get the nozzle into the hook assembly...it will make a nose and may even make you jump your timing....but spray until it drips out and starts to run into the garbage can you have under your machine....keep running for a bit even after you stop spraying....then get your air compressor out and also while its running spray the air into the assembly and blow out the WD40 until its pretty dry in there.

NEXT....take your oil bottle and liberally place a huge drop in the bottom of your assembly while the machine it off...now start the machine, but don't run (or at least I don't) at a top speed....now take a lint free rag and wipe out the area....put the machine back together and you are ready to go again.

If you did this before you do each new quilt you would be very clean...and if its a dense quilt and king sized I may even do it again about half way through.

Hope this helps and if I forgot something that you do different Shana...please share.

[quiltmonkey]

Bonnie, you do exactly what I do.

WD40---Yes, (as you so eloquently stated) I also spray the "BeeGees" into my bobbin assy -- I squirt very liberally into the bobbin assembly with WD 40. I spray a lot to give it a really good soaking, let that baby run about 10 seconds, then I spray another good dose to give it another soak. That bobbin assy is soaking and dripping with WD40 (I keep a rag under it during this time) and I gotta tell you what.... before, I would just do a little squirt of that stuff, but just lately I started really "BeeGeeing" it and I seem to have a much happier bobbin and my stitches are so very lovely and no problems or hiccups or issues with my machine.

I do the WD 40 treatment after I've finished quilting for the day or night so my machine can sit and drip if it needs to (always move it off of the quilt so no drips on quilt) I also "BeeGee" with WD 40 in the middle of quilting if my bobbin starts to sound cranky (meaning it starts to rattle) and that shuts it up and makes it happy again. I use a lot of signature thread, so lots of lint and that might be the reason why I have to go heavy duty with the WD 40.

PS: I should probably buy a case of WD 40 the rate I am using it!

[quiltmonkey]

Originally posted by susanramey

Shana,

Do you spray the WD40 in both the bobbin area and the bobbin case? Follow up with oil in both areas as well?

Thanks--Susan

Well, normally I do not WD40 my bobbin case, but I do hit it with the air compressor a lot to get the lint out. But, every so often I do clean the bobbin case with a squirt of WD 40 (remove the little springy thingy and take a Qtip and dab a little bit of to get any gunk that might be in the bobbin case. After I do that, I take the rubbing alcohol and Qtip and make sure I get any WD40 residue out of the bobbin case. I don't think it will hurt it, but most times I just blow out the bobbin case with air.

[SandraG]

Check your thread path also. You have so much control over tension with your thread path. If your thread is knotting, it is probably "jumping around' somewhere.

On Friday I did a quilt where I used white on top and black on bottom. The stitches were perfect. I told my friend that you have to be pretty d . . good to do that -- and -- of course you have to have a great machine. I find that that most quilters I work with that have thread problems is due to fear of adjusting the machine. Take time and try different things.

In addition, make sure you check under the spring that is on the outside of the bobbin case. Loosen the tension screw and look for "thread gunk" right where the thread leaves the bobbin case. I was amazed at what collects there. Every now and then I clean and oil all of my bobbin cases. I undo the screw and using a very skinny bristle brush, I clean out from under the outside spring.

Sandra

[momtoaj]

So I spent about 7 hours today working on this machine. I've called my tech guy from where we bought the machine & have done numerous adjustments but to no avail... We even went to his shop, bought a brand new tension assembly as well as three new bobbin casings. It doesn't seem to matter how tight I tighten the top tension (until it is finally tight enough to break the top thread), I get the same result to varying degrees. Standing from the front of the machine I stitched straight from to back, back to front, left to right & right to left. Here's what happens:

Stitch from front to back - top thread shows as pokies on the backing.

Stitch from right to left - top thread shows as pokies on the backing.

Stitching circles - top thread shows as pokies on the backing at varying locations depending on whether you are heading more front to back or right to left as per the above.

I guess we are finally going to have to pay them to come over & work on the machine. I really feel like there is nothing left for us to try.

Has anyone out there seen these symptoms & what did you do to fix it if you did?

Standing here in a puddle of tears....

Thanks for listening & any suggestions!

[RitaR]

Mom to aj, if you have an APQS, wait until Mon and call Amy at the shop. sorry you are having to go thru this.. Amy has walked us thru problems when I was ready to shave himselves legs with a chainsaw.. and got us up and going. There is a solution, and if I"m thinking right, it is in the timing.. and usually when stitching in the direction that is NOT a normal line for a machine to stitch.

Meanwhile each tear is a prayer, so let them flow, relax, and let us know what you find out on Mon., or if another owner/dealer can kick in with an answer.

Just like something not being lost until we need it, these machines don't get wonky until the weekend.

Good luck on the fixin's ,

RitaR

[John Mitchell]

I just sent you an email..

John

[smorris]

Mumtoaj

Check your bobbin tension. When you hold the thread coming out of the bobbin case and take your hand away from the bobbin case, how far does the bobbin case drop. It should fall slowly like a spider climbing down a web.

Good luck,

Sue in Australia

[LivingQuilts]

Mumtoaj

I too have struggled with tension for years and have played with tension every which way possible. I recently tried the Bobbin Genie recommended by Sharon Schamber. Even that didn't help, until I forgot to use it and was quilting without it and noticed that my tension was perfect--all those little pokies and knots, and uneven stitching went away. I suggest that you try quilting without the spring in your bobbin case, lets call it "naked", and see how your stitches look. I suggest you try it on a practice piece first before working on customers quilts to make sure it works for you. It worked for me and was a relief after years of struggling and fiddling and cursing my machine! Good luck.

Chantal Anderson

Living Quilts

[Lsilver]

Sometimes taking the tension spring out of the bobbin case works wonders, With Signature, I often do that, especially with a thin batt. When Myrna was here teaching a few weeks back she mentioned that she takes the spring iout and gets good results.

[Bekah]

mom to aj. I have struggled ever since I got my machine with the very same thing. drives me crazy, but I hit a ruler and had to retime my machine and guess what, it was better. Bless Myrna's heart she was on the phone with me for over an hour helping me get over the fear of turning the top tension dial and it was better still but still not acceptable. pokies all over and just terrible tension in curves and going right to left. Had decided I was beyond helpign and it had to be me not understanding and then Shana mentioned having your quilt look like a hammock on the frame VIOLA. IT worked, I had my quilt sandwich too tight. now I didn't think it was but it was just that little thing that seemed to clear it up, so my suggestion beyond all of the great advice above is try loosening your sandwich and see what happens. perhaps it will work for you and hang in there. we have all been there and screamed loudly and we are blessed to have such wonderful friends here who hear us and care.

[RitaR]

There is one other thing Amy from APQS suggested, and it's sure simplified tension issues for us, and that is: Always adjust the bobbin first, Then adjust the top tension to the bobbin. Before we just automatically adjusted the top tension and I sometimes ended up in tears of frustration (and short on patience!!)

Now If I could keep himself out of the machine, I'd be a happy Quilter, unfortunately, spine/neck issues won't let me twist under, crawl around the floor, crain and look up. I do good to air spray the fuzzzz out of the bobbin area when I change bobbins.

What are the 12 steps to teach a guy to not fix things that aren't broken, and to keep rags away from bobbin areas when the machine is running??? lol.. Hés still alive, and well.

RitaR

[AnnHenry]

You are describing all the problems I had until someone told me to make sure that the thread was between the tension disks (directly touching the rod) instead of riding on top of the V of the tenson disks where I could see it. When the thread goes through the tension disk properly, you can't see the thread because it is hiding running around the rod.

That one piece of information changed my whole (tension) life!

Specifically when you mention that you tighten the top tension all the way and there is no difference in your stitch. That was how it was in my case. All the advice I got was about the bobbin, and it wasn't a bobbin problem. It was a threading problem, and one with such a simple solution. That's why the top tension wasn't working, because the thread was riding on top where it wasn't being affected by tightening the knob.

At least that's what it was in my case.

[RitaR]

AnnHenry, very good points.. will make notes of that myself.

I am keeping two notebooks, one a small spiral for tension settings, issues, etc, with various brands and types of threads. Penny and I do not like Lava. that's noted and what happens when I use it. Also colors in the same brand and type can stitch quite differently. I think it's the dye in the thread, just like some 4 ply yarns are thinner than others, like black and other dark colors, are thinner than white of the same brand/type..

The big one is the 3 ring binder with all the info from APQS, I mean the manual.. and I add blank pages to various sections. Next is going to be divider pages with big tabs to make it easier to find things. I put blank pages in and hand write these little tips in.. sure helps at times..

RitaR