I've been backstabbed (Long)

[chickenscratch]

I am so angry right now. I just went into our local fabric store to look at fabrics so I could refer my class students there to buy their materials. This is the shop where I had talked to the owner, dropped off brochures, and gotten a few referrals from. The deal was supposed to be that she would send customers to me and I would send customers to her. I have done my part. I have had two customers go in there to buy their batting and I have referred several friends there for fabric purchases.

Well, guess what? I walked into the shop and there, in the middle of the room, was a SHORTARM QUILTING MACHINE. I didn't even know what to say. I was nice and told her that I was planning to refer my students to her, and that was the reason for my visit. She seemed thankful that I was going to do that, then she gave me back my cards and card-holder. She is going to do quilting for customers. She said she had just gotten her machine and hadn't decided yet how much to charge. She really hadn't had much time to practice yet.

I was so hurt and angry, but I was very professional and thanked her and told her I would refer my students to her. I also then told her I was offering classes at my house to groups of 4-6 students at a time.

NOW GET THIS She said she is working on a class schedule to teach basic quilting. This is the same shop that told me I couldn't teach classes in their store because they didn't want to stay open late. Now they are offering night and weekend classes.

I am so hurt, disappointed, disgusted. If I don't find some customers somewhere I'm going to have to give up on my dream of quilting for supplementary income.

I have been looking at getting a Mille with S/R, but now I'm afraid to spend any more money.

Sorry this is so long, thanks for listening.

Teresa

[Grammie]

I think your taking this way too hard and that justs my opinion. I would have offered to help her learn to quilt. That's just my way. Kindness and understanding will open more doors if only you trust in it. It has never failed me yet. It's true that the local Quilt shops in my area have been very good to me but I wouldn't care if a Longarmer moved right into their shop tomorrow. I am of the mind that there are plenty of quilts to quilt and I will find them.

Quilting with a short arm and long arm are two very different approaches if you ask me. And running a shop and keeping up with the demand of quilting too is a challenge. Some people do want more than a meander on their quilt.

You need to show up with some super quilt projects every month at your guild or guilds with a GREAT BIG SMILE and the Piecers will gravitate in your direction. Trust me. Don't forget you can do your own classes anytime you wish in a location you want.

Good Luck to you.

PS. A short story. Last week a lady and husband came into one of QS's (the owner did not know them) and wanted to photograph a quilt that I did for the shop that is hanging. The Christmas Quilt. The owner of the shop very kindly said no to them. ( She loves this Quilt) They left and came back the next day and finally approached the owner asking how to approach the techniques I used. The person fessed up that she was asked to quilt a quilt like it for a customer but didn't know how I had achieved some the things I had done. Still no photo and the owner didn't know how to answer her questions. I haven't heard from her but my point is, Your quilting skills will eventually speak for themselves without any regard to what the local Quilt shops say or don't say.

Keep your Smile in Tact.

Grammie

[chickenscratch]

Thanks Grammie, You're right. I can do more on my machine than she can on hers, I have more experience, and eventually I'm going to have a quilt in a show somewhere. She won't do that. She is content to run her shop and make money. I quilt because I love to do it and I want others to love it too.

Teresa

[APQS]

Hi Teresa

i agree with everything Tammie/Grammie said and would add one other thought.

I believe people bring their tops to a particular quilter for a few reasons:

Convenience

Price

Quality of work

To enjoy the experience of sharing what they have done with others. If you show an interest in the person and what they have done I am sure they come back to you and recommend you. Perhaps the shop owner will be spreading herself too thin and won't be able to give that extra special personal attention that you can.

Good luck, and keep creating beutiful samples to show around.

Sue in Australia

[ffq-lar]

Hang in there Teresa---

There are several ways this can go. Stay on friendly (or at least civil!) terms with the shop owner. When she finally realizes the time and energy it takes to do the quilting (especially with a shortarm), she may have to hire more help to work the shop, hire someone to do the quilting, or work herself into a nervous breakdown trying to do it all!!!

One LQS here wouldn't even put out cards for me as they "do their own quilting" Their backlog was a year until people just went elsewhere. They didn't want to lose any business, but no one can do it all. Now the owner and her daughter are the only employees there and it has that "frazzled" feel--you know, no greeting or smile for the customers because the have too much work to do. They stopped doing quilting several months ago when their employee who did the quilting (for wages) left for a State job!!

So, take a deep breath and smile a secret smile because you know how much it takes to do this business. If the shop owner was really serious about it she probably would have bought a LONG arm. We are all sending you wishes for the strength to rise above this. Kill her with kindness and when she finally needs a real longarmer, it will be you!!!!!

Linda R

Oly Wa

[jkerekes]

Hi Teresa,

I agree with what everyone else has already said. It would seem to me that it would be virtually impossible to run a shop and quilt a lot of quilts for customers and teach classes! I think that it takes a lot of time, energy, "research", creativity, etc. to be an accomplished long arm quilter. The owner of my favorite LQS here has her own short-arm at home and she still doesn't have time to quilt her own quilts! I can't imagine that these ladies will have time and energy to stand and stare, the patience to consult with customers to make sure that they get what they want, or the ability to continually "educate" themselves and practice, and not be burned out. They may become accomplished meanderers, and may or may not be able to "git 'er done". Good. Give them those customers and let the good ones come to you.

Best of luck and God Bless.

Jill Kerekes

[Guest Linda S]

Don't feel betrayed. This person needs to run her business and do the best she can to make money. With a shortarm and a store to tend, she's most likely not going to become a super quilter with tons of quilting clients. Do your best to develop your skills and people will follow the quality. It will most likely be in your best interest to retain a friendly relationship with this person.

Linda

[Myrna Ficken]

You have gotten some good advice from the ladies Teresa. Just do your thing.

Myrna

[chickenscratch]

((((BIG HUG)))))) to all of you. Thanks for the pep talk. I needed it.

Teresa

[dfjett]

Keep up your good work and kill her with kindness! I would, however, (being the _itchy person I am!) no longer refer anyone to the shop and I would also begin offering batting for sale. Competition is good for everyone!

If anyone should ask for a comparison of your quilting and the shop's quilting, just honestly answer about your quilting skills and turn around time. You could very nicely say that you are dedicated full time to your quilting commitments, while a shop owner would need to divide her time amongst her varied duties.

Further, have you explored teaching longarm quilting classes and offering a rental situation for students who have completed your classes. This is how I have been able to learn longarming. A lady in our area has a Millie, teaches and then leases and it's just great!

Deborah

NJ

[BossQuilter]

Wow, what a topic! I am a shop owner, 11 years now. I have had to deal with this issue myself, so maybe I can share a different perspective for you to think about.

Owning a shop, brick and mortar, is hard work in itself. To create an inviting place for quilters to gather is an everyday affair.

First I have to pay for the building, telephone, electricity, heating/cooling, water & sewer, garbage service and basic advertising in the most frugal of places, yellow pages, guild newsletters, local rags...

I also need to have thousands of dollars in computer equipment, printers, label makers, shrink wrap machines, plus all the consumables that go with these machines.

Then it takes lots of planning for what the store looks like as the customer drives up to the door (that involves hundreds of dollars a year for us in flowers and upkeep to weeds, mowing, painting, etc.).

Then we have to have all the inside samples made, hopefully quilted (this translates to about $200 per sample to sell a pattern that sells for $9.00, of course I don't get $9.00 for the profit as I too have to pay for the pattern) And all these samples have to change regularly to keep interest for all those quilters that walk through my door.

And of course you can't just have a "sample" we have to decorate the shop so that the interest is "seen" as something special (this means many dollars spent to make interesting displays)

After this comes a website with all the information I can pack to attract folks to my store, and of course I need classes to entice our quilters to come and purchase something from us...

So far this is really just to open my doors...

Then we get to the several hundred thousand dollars of inventory... sitting on the shelf, already paid for... waiting for a customer to purchase it...

I think you can get the picture maybe from the shop standpoint....

So as you say "I have done my part. I have had two customers go in there to buy their batting and I have referred several friends there for fabric purchases." I would ask you how many customers do you believe it takes to keep all this in operation?

You also say "If I don't find some customers somewhere I'm going to have to give up on my dream of quilting for supplementary income. "

This is the shop owners "whole income"...

Now to keep all of this in perspective so you don't scream at me... I have many people each week that come into my store and ask for quilting for their quilts... They are asking me to refer them to a quilter, they ask my opinions on quilting, and sometimes they have a bag of batting and backing from JoAnn's... It takes my time or the time of an employee that I pay to help this customer that is purchasing nothing from my store. I happily help them and then we look at the three "house" quilters we have... Yes I have a machine that I rent, quilt for hire and teach quilting on. I also have three quilters that do quilting for us, we keep everyone hopping. The quilters pick up the quilts from me, we keep records and when the quilt is back we collect payment and sales tax from the customer and pay the quilter for their services and the state for the taxes.

My expectations is that I am "giving" work to these quilters, for me to do this I must make a profit somewhere... My quilters help with sample quilting discounts (no I don't expect them to quilt for free anytime).

I do expect them to help to educate these customers that by shopping at a LQS that they keep everyone in "business". I also do expect them not to take quilts in from my customers directly. They must keep them dropping off and picking up from my shop.

They need to be loyal to my business and I am loyal to keep them as busy as they want to be....

You can hopefully see how this can work for everyone... Don't take this as a slam to you... Take it as an opportunity to be creative with this owner and work "with" her instead of being her competition...

One final note to ponder... If it weren't for the LQS's there would be a lot less quilting happening and then with all the longarmers out there looking for a little pocket money it would be really cut-throat for you to get any quilts at all.... We all need to work "TOGETHER" to make this "work" we love happen and be profitable on both sides.

I would take a step back and think about a creative way for you to approach this owner with a "working business plan" for the two of you to help each other... If she is going to be giving classes, she can hold the classes at her store and you can be paid for teaching her customers... this would mean that you reciprocate by not having classes in your home, your customers would also pay the shop for classes from you... Ask the owner how you can work out an arrangement for quilting some of the quilts she doesn't want to take on... a commission for referrals is appropriate... you on the other hand can not bypass the shop by not paying her a commission on quilts...

Sorry this is so long... but I had to comment here and hope I have helped you to work through this without emotions... business is business...

[JoAnnHoffman]

You don't need to depend on the quilt store or quilt store owner for your business. Do local quilt shows and buy a vendor booth. Hang your quilts and hand out cards. Enter shows and your name and quality of your work will bring you business. Join a few guilds and meet the women. Do show and tell. Shortarms are limited and so is the quality of work you can do on them. People will use her for 9 inch pantographs. People will use you for higher end quilting. How can she teach if she doesn't know what she's doing. Wait till she gets into a bit more, she will be calling you for advice. Just wait....

I wouldn't worry at all, unless she buys a Mille! HA....Just kidding!

All my girlfriends have longarms and everyone has their own style. We all have plenty of business.

[quiltaholi_518]

Good advice, JoAnn and everyone.......

Ha, wait till she takes in a quilt with 14" blocks on point. With a short arm she will be at it for weeks, especially with all the interuptions. I knew someone that tried a gammill in the middle of their shop and kids would hang on it like a jungle gym, and all the customers wanted a tutorial on quilting with this machine. I'm afraid she has no idea how hard it will be. Give her time to regret her decision,

[SandraG]

Hi everyone the newbie does have an opinion. We just got our new "Millie" to start services in the shop; however, we can not do everything -- custom work is a long way away -- we have three quilters that we refer to our customers. Simple meadering goes to one, pantograhs another, and fabulous custom work yet another. There are more than enough quilts to go around. Our custom quilter has a backlog of 6 months. Even the simple and panto quilters are behind. We are just leaning so we are working on sample and practice quilts. (we still need quilts for katrina victims) -- I did have one long arm quilter come to my shop and ask me to give out her cards but the problem i had with that is that she does not support my store -- the other longarm quilters support my store by shopping here, coming for special events, helping out at sales etc. I send them a lot of business. There were all excited when i got my millie (although) they wanted me to get the gammill). I know i am rattling but my point is, they work with me and i work with them -- we have formed a community and it is great -- they have even taught me some techiques on the machine -- i also work closely with another quilt shop that is only 3 miles away -- we do shows together -- look at fabric together etc --- it is great -- the best thing is that our customers theink that it is wonderful that everyone gets along and tries to do the best thing for the customer -- it makes them feel like we really care and we do not take advantage of just getting their business -- i hope i kind of made sense here

Be happy!!!:P

[thequiltqueen]

Boss Quilter: As a former business owner myself (not quilting related) I can vouch for everything you have said. I wish the quilt shop owners in my area had your attitude of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". Unfortunately, that is not the case here. Everyone is out for THEMSELVES only. I could go on and on with examples...but I won't.

I think the LQS owner breached the verbal "contract" she had with chickenscratch by getting the short arm machine though. She has every right to have one certainly, but the proper thing to do would have been to tell chickenscratch she intended to supplement her quilt shop income instead of chickenscratch "catching her in the act" so to speak. Business is business.

Chickenscratch: You should not hesitate to offer batting for sale or any other thing that supplements your quilting. After all, YOU are in business too. One hand scratching ONE back will never work. Be civil to this shop owner, because I'll bet in short order she will need you again. BUT, I would draw the line at actually helping her. Spend your energies helping yourself.

[mrsbishwit]

Here's another thing to think about.. you said before that you are having trouble getting business, perhaps that it's not just you that is having trouble getting business. It is probably that there is no business locally to have. Maybe this is the LQS owners way of actracting business.

If you are living in a small rural town and there is a Walmart & or a Joann's Fabric near by chances are the LQS owner is struggling to make ends meet and the reason why she hasn't referred anyone to you is because there is no one to refer. Also another point could be that in your paticular area there just may not be any quilters (are people that are willing to pay someone to quilt due to lack of money).

The owner of the LQS sounds as if she is desperate to generate business and if she can't then most likely she will be out of business sooner than later.

Joann

[chickenscratch]

Lots more great advice, and an interesting perspective.

Boss Quilter, I do realize she is in business to make money and when she opened this shop last year I went in and offered to teach classes for FREE if she would let me offer my services to quilt the finished projects. She told me she didn't want to stay open on weekends or long hours to offer classes. It would have been a great situation for both of us. She could have charged for fabrics and class time and i could have gotten quilting business. For her to treat me so rudely yesterday tells me that she will not be willing to work together. She handed me my brochures and holder and told me she would not be needing those any longer. That said in one action what a thousand words didn't. But thanks for the reply. I hope to one day be a part owner in a shop somewhere. Then I will be able to see it more from your point of view, but until then I will find another shop to send my customers to. There is another one about 40 minutes from here. It is much larger and carries a much larger assortment at more reasonable prices. I will do business with them in the future.

JoAnn: I had already decided last night that I would do exactly that. I am going to concentrate on quilting for ME right now. If I have customers I do, but if not then I have more time to practice. This is only 14 months into my 5 year plan to go full time with quilting, so I've got lots more time to become an expert and then I will probably have a backlog like you all do.

Teresa

[Shirl]

TheresaOne small thing I did to get business was to buy magnetic signs for my car doors. They are not all that expensive and they do get noticed. Use as few words as possible and make the lettering large. Mine say "LongArm Quilting" My phone number and my website. I can't begin to tell you how many people have walked up to my car and asked for a business card (which I always have in my car).

I often wonder if I'm helping the LQS that do quilting when I park in their parking areas. Customers probably think the vehicle belongs to them. l.o.l.

There's plenty of quilts to be quilted and you can inspire others by teaching classes in your home, by working with Girl Scout & 4-H Leaders, and even the art teachers in the schools. Some schools do after school sewing classes. It just helps to get your name out there as well as promote quilting to those who do not already quilt. We had several children and teens enter quilts in our local quilt show this year.

Good luck! It sounds as though you have the right energy to be successful.

Shirley

[Grammie]

Lots of good suggestions on this matter.

JoAnn I agree with you. There are plenty of quilts for all of us.

Chickenscratch I know you will do the right thing and I understand where you are coming from.

I quilt for two quilt shops and they pay me well. I went into third LQS for the second time this past week and once again offered to do her first quilt free she just said thanks and I purchased some pretty fat quarters and discount patterns. She was not interested in my offer in the least. This did not hurt my feelings at all. I kinda feel sorry for her because her small shop is in a deteriating part of town, Her quilts are on the wall tacked and unquilted with the exception of a few that looked really awful from really bad quilting. But that is her choice. I made it clear that I Quilted for two other shops and that I was going to Louisiana to do a few for some shops there and she still wasn't interested. OH well. Its her loss. I personally at this stage like quilting for the LQS's because I am working full-time still and with each quilt I get experience. I still keep my prices in range and don't give my services away. I started in January and each Shop has Many of my quilts on Display in their shops. They are a few other quilters in the area that at times they still refer to and I want them to. They save me for the most important customers they have and the one's that just pay without question. This takes the burden off of me. Once I go fulltime, I will probly be quilting for them at a minimum charge if any. I like Judy's way of quilting for free. If they can keep my business going I will do the quilts for them. I hope in the end we will all gain something and make lasting friendships as well.

[Giftedhands]

I will tell you that about a year ago, I was "working" with a new quilt shop owner who "wanted a longarmer to work with". She was happy to exchange 'free quilting" for passing my name out, etc.

3 months later, I find out she is promoting HQ16, and is using my pricelist, samples etc to sell HER quilting service. Not a single card was handed out of the box, but she says "I'm booking classes like mad from your sample". How do I know? A friend called the shop asking for a referral and she told them they take in quilts to be done IN HOUSE. Come see our machine, our sample and our price is "XXX". My samples, my work.

I won't do anything like this again. And I'm sorry but every quilt shop in town thinks that they can quilt. But with the exception of one shop there's never any quilt on the frame in those other shops...so either their quilter is really efficient, or they are not getting the work...

Cynthia

[bjtinker]

Good evening everyone!

What a great seminar on business techniques--do's and don'ts.

Thanks and Good luck everyone. I just quilted a shop/class sample as a "congradulations for opening" for a new shop in town and another one "for pay". They have my cards on their counter and I plan to take a class or two from them. To get to know people in their space is good.

Happy Quilting;)

BJ and Tinkerbell

[Judi]

Oh YES! I SO agree with Tammie and JoAnn!

Teresa - just keep at it and don't give up! There will come a day when she

will deceide that she just can't do it all! You will be ready - well into your

quilts and projects. Get your batting ordered and fabrics from online or the

other LQS!

I do work with one Local Quilt shop in town. Very nice people! I carry Hobbs

batting - but told her that for Dream Batts I would refer them to her. Also,

for classes and any frabrics or help, I send them to her. I have my business

in my home right now - so do not do classes. Would like to do a few - one

on one - after we build a studio. I take classes from her store now and then too. Patricia Cox was here about a month ago, still working on my

hand applique project! That lady was great! She did it so smoothly and

quickly too! Wow - very impressive - she doesn't even wear glasses!....

anyhow.......

There are 5 different people who have business cards on display at this

shop. 2 are part-time employees. She does NOT take ANY commission out

of what I charge for quilting - if so I would have to charge more I guess.

She is a very sweet and friendly person. I was asked to use her shop as

a pick-up and drop-off location. I live in a very small town 15 miles away,

and do have my own customers who live out by me. They call first and stop

over.

Yes, there was a time, when I had no quilts, the phone didn't ring, and I wondered - "What did I get myself into!...." Now I really wish I would have

put that energy into doing my own quilts instead of worrying about every-

thing else! Now I have many hanging on the rack - waiting. It is a much

better feeling though - and hang in there! You will get there too!

NOTHING WORTH HAVING COMES EASY!!!

P.S. I have not worked on MY stuff for ages - I think I will do some piecing

tonight...... That will feel good!

[jeri]

Teresa, Other machine quilters are wonderful. We are blessed here in the Kansas City area with a terrific group and we help each other out, learn from each other, refer clients to each other if we don't happen to do what the customer wants or can't fit them into a time crunched schedule, borrow thread, whatever...... 2 machine quilters decided to try starting a lmachine quilting guild about 4 years ago our 1st meeting in early 2003 had 17 attending and we now have around 100 members. Machine types go from domestic to the computerized longarms from very old ones to the newest . Skills from wanna be longarmers to ones that have won many awards. I have learned so much from these wonderful quilters who are so willing to share and have made so many new friends. There are several others on this forum who belong to our guild.

Don't feel back stabbed and hurt, take it as another quilter expanding her skills. She is just starting out on her journey and it will be awhile before she has the skills to match yours. There are lots of piecers and toppers out there and machine quilting is becoming more and more accepted. There will always be quilts to quilt. jeri