9patch Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Barb's 'freaking out' post and one of the replies to her has me thinking about insurance again. Insurance was mentioned as a possible way to cover the loss, should Barb not be able to recover the top which was damaged while waiting to be quilted. I'm wondering about how people handle the issue of insurance. With ours, I have been told that my machine is covered under personal property as long as I am NOT running a business in my home. That would require that I cover the longarm with business insurance. This type of insurance would cover the machine, materials, quilts in my possession, as well as limited liability for people who come to my house. Right now, I am not in business, but I wonder if other insurance companies are different and would like to hear how you cover your machines. Thanks. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtreusch Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I have business riders on my homeowners policy that cover my machine, materials and quilts in my studio as well as liability for customers who come to my house. The coverage is more than enough and the increase in premium was very minimal. Debbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbann03 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 My business insurance does cover my machine and the quilts in my possession. I would have to check my policy to see exactly what circumstances the quilts would be covered. I am so grateful that I didn't have to examine that route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrystitcher Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 My profession is an insurance agent. My advice is to speak with your personal agent and ask them if you machine and customer quilts are covered. My insurance company has a professional business rider that was added to my homeowners policy for minimal premium which covers my machine, supplies, liability, and customer quilts in my possession at the time of loss. Don't expect it to be covered under personal property if you are quilting as a business. It all depends on the company! Again, ask your agent. Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyL Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Get it in writing! When we had Allstate, our agent told me that my machine was covered as long as I used it at least 50% of the time for personal use. I asked him for some kind of written endorsement or rider stating that fact. He then decided he'd better check with underwriting and was told that if I used my machine for business at all, it was NOT covered. Had I trusted my agent's advice, I would not have had coverage. Not knocking insurance companies, but remember -- if there's a loss, they are looking for a reason NOT to pay. No matter what you think you have, if you haven't read your policy, you're not doing your job as a business owner. As I wrote last week in another post about insurance, we've had homeowner's policies that had available options for coverage for the machine, or coverage for the machine and personal injury liability, or coverage for the machine, coverage for personal injury liability, and property of others. We've had policies that covered none of the above and policies that covered only one or two of the items but not all three. Check with your own agent and then read your own policy to make sure that what he/she is telling you corresponds with what is written in your policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheri Butler Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Judy, everyone... Yes, you definitly would need to check with the Insurance Company in regards to what's covered and what's NOT. Getting the Rider added to your homeowners policy would cover losses incurred to any part of your quilting business, including if YOU boo boo'd and caused an accident! It's well worth the $$$! Look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9patch Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 At the time I was talking to my insurance company we had finished my sewing room addition and I was updating our insurance. When I did get a quote for adding a home business rider, the cost was quite reasonable. I will have to check back with them to make sure we are all on the same page. And get it in writing. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyL Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Sheri: My understanding of the coverage I have, from what was explained to me and what I read in the policy, is that quilts are covered from loss due to fire, theft, etc. but there is no coverage for "malpractice" (for lack of a better word) that I commit. It was explained to me like insurance for an attorney - they have liability insurance to cover someone getting hurt at their office but they have to have separate insurance cover their negligent handling of a lawsuit. I think I remember that the Milne & Scali policy specifically excluded neglect or damage caused to a quilt that was done by me. Am I wrong? Is there another kind of coverage that would cover our mistakes? Thanks for any info you have on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheri Butler Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 In reference to "boo boo'd" it will NOT cover your quilting boo boo, as that is your work product! However, if you spill something (for example) on a quilt for a customer, there would be coverage for those type of accidents, as long as that is NOT under your EXCLUSIONS listed on your policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltaholi_518 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Ha Ha Ha!!! so if you make a big BOO-BOO on somebody's quilt just make sure you follow it up with a nice big glass of grape juice-OOOPS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheri Butler Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 roflmbo = rolling on floor laughing my b u t _ off! Caron, you are splitting my gutt in half. tummy hurts from laughing so hard. lol hubby says it just gets complicated. get in writing from your insurance co exactly what it does and doesnt cover. your policy should show a coverage and an exclusions portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJazzy Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Can anyone give out the names of some of your insurance carriers, we've been looking to make a change because State Farm doesn't have riders, just a seperate business policy for the price of one arm and one leg, they are even requiring a seperate policy for my jewelry vs. a rider. I've never seen this before so I want to make a switch just haven't found the right source yet, so if you can give ideas I'd appreciate it. Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingupastorm Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 From eveything I have ever heard about coverage for the atual quilt is that they will cover the cost of the materials and you have to to have receipts as well. So if someone spends $200 in fabric and spends 100 + hours doing their master piece applique work and sends you the top and you spill your grape juice on it then what is the insurance gonna cover? I would definatly find out before I got coverage because I wonder if they really would cover much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheri Butler Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Sheila, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT about State Farm! I worked for them for a very short time...I quit and walked out the door because of their policy towards their policy holders...my boss wanted me to "lie" to an insured about a witness....i slapped the file on his desk and told him to do it himself, and walked out the door. Try Allied Insurance, or depending on what state your in, my husband works for Cincinnati Insurance. Initial $ may be a bit more...but the customer service towards their insured's is something I have never seen before in my life time. Their policy: treat our insured's as if they were your MOM. They don't write in all states, but ask around different agencies to see if any of them sell for Cincinnati. Allied (im unsure which states they write in), but we have also heard how good they represent their insured's as well. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltaholi_518 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I have something that I have people sign the first time they drop off. You know, "pick the quilt up within 2 weeks, if you don't in 90 days it's mine" and "your quilt is insured for the cost of materials only while in my possesion" If you don't have someone sign that, and something happens, you have no footing legally when they say, my time is worth $25 per hour and I spent 1000 hours on that quilt. I can self-insure for that circumstance. I do have a rider (Country Insurance) if something happens to SOMEONE entering and exiting my home for business. That's the type of situation that could bankrupt you if you are not covered. Granny falls and breaks her hip on my steps and now that is a $2 million dollar hip! The quilts I am not worried about, the hips are a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judi Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Caron - great advice! I like the signing of the form with the info. on, but not sure how I could do that with the quilts I pick-up from the LQS. Some of my customers I do not even see. They mail me a check afterwards. Check with your policy and agent. Yes - mine is through homeowners, they wanted the serial number and such, plus est. value, and yes - they do not cover work done on a quilt top. Just fabrics and products. I try to have them out of my place within 2 months. I just don't have room to store any more than that. Right now I am over-loaded and need to pick up the pace a bit! Time to whip out a few "over-alls" and take a little break from custom work. Do not get me going on State Farm Ins! Can't believe they are still in business the way they screw people over - again and again!! Sorry if any of you work for that company, but we had a very bad experience with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotquilts Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 JudyL. wrote: Not knocking insurance companies, but remember -- if there's a loss, they are looking for a reason NOT to pay. No matter what you think you have, if you haven't read your policy, you're not doing your job as a business owner. ********* LOL! Well, Judy and I have sparred on a number of occasions over insurance companies. This is one of those things that although I actually do understand her reasoning, I don't agree with some of her conclusions. Most insurance companies really are not looking for a reason NOT to pay! They are, however, looking to adhere strictly to the insurance contract in the hopes of making a profit for themselves. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, it is the way business works. Even so, often the contract winds up being overruled by the courts in favor of the insured. (Case in point: the relatively recent rulings that insurance companies must pay certain flood claims from the post Katrina flooding even though the contract specifically excluded flood! While it may be the correct moral decision, it clears disregards the contract and will result in many companies choosing simply not to do business in those states, making purchasing insurance more difficult and more costly to everyone.) As far as riders verus separate business policies, read the riders carefully. Often they do not include substantial business interruption coverage and other coverages which are frequently included in a business policy. Also a separate business policy typically does not have it's premiums affected by the loss history of the homeowners policy. In addition, a rider usually does not allow for the addition of partnerships, LLC or other corporate entities. These are just a few of the reasons one might opt for a business policy over a rider endorsement. Check with your agent regarding the benefits of each type of policy. It depends on your situation and particular needs which one is best for you. (As an aside, I found myself chuckling the other night as I was watching a news story. An area was badly flooded and they showed a home with water up to the eaves but what was exposed of the house was fully engulfed in flames. I turned to my DH (also an insurance professional) and said "I bet they have no flood insurance. Wonder who they know that works in insurance!" Flood isn't covered but the fire is! I bet the insurance company investigates that claim very thoroughly!) Christine Olson CPCU, ARM (Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter Associate in Risk Management) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linda S Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Yes, you have to thoroughly discuss all this stuff with your insurance agent. My insurance man had no idea what I was talking about when I called him, so we met and I took pictures of my machine, studio, the type of work I do, etc. My business was not covered under my home owner's insurance, even though it is inside my house. I have a totally separate business policy. I costs almost as much as my home owner's insurance does each year, but I know I'm covered! And, Judy is right that it doesn't cover "malpractice." If does cover fire, theft, etc. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotquilts Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Originally posted by Linda S ... I have a totally separate business policy. I costs almost as much as my home owner's insurance does each year, but I know I'm covered! ... Linda And it is a business EXPENSE! I'm always amazed at how many people balk at purchasing business insurance but unlike your personal lines insurance, this can be expensed. ...the cost of doing business. Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogiequilter Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I have a similar situation to the State Farm folks. I have Farmers, and I enquired about business insurance (folks come to my house, trip over my cat, break their leg and sue me), and it was going to be $3000 per year!!! Yes those are 3 zeros..... Do you know how many quilts I would have to do just to pay the insurance???? I have a rider to cover the replacement cost of the machine should it be destroyed in a fire or tornado etc. my insurance will also cover quilt tops lost in a similar way, no coverage if I just screw them up. I meet clients at local quilt shops to discuss their quilting needs, and to pick up/drop off quilts. The shop owners don't mind - it draws traffic into their shops, and it keeps me from having customers come to my house. At this point I didn't see any other solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 The Fear of being sued... OK, I am just being the devil's advocate here... I am curious about this fear of being sued topic that seems to crop up here on this chat a lot. Perhaps this "fear" may be getting a little blown out of proportion? Or on the other hand, is the risk and probailiity very high that a customer would come into your home to pick up a quilt and then gets injured and then sues you? Is the probability and risk factor high enough for this fear to be justified? Should this really be a fear or is this being overly exaggerated? What are the chances of a customer coming over to pick up a quilt and getting injured and suing you? What about a girl scout knocking on your door to sell cookies and she trips and falls and breaks her leg at your home. Can she sue you for her injuries? I think anyone can sue you, but in all fairness, what is the probability it is going to happen and is this being blown a little out of proportion? What about a child coming to your home to take singing or music lessons? What if this kid falls and hurts themself in your home? Would the parent really sue you? Is this the same type of business insurance or homeowners insurance that would cover a client's injuries? Like I said, this is just a thought...as I wouldn't really know the probability and risk involved but my initial thought is that it is very low and unlikely to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyL Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Shana: The girl scout could sue you, although that's not one of the problems I worry about. Technically, I could sue you because I don't like the way you looked at me when you opened the door. Anyone can sue for anything! Whether they can recover is a whole different question. I think the instance of the $54 million lawsuit for a pair of pants recently is a good example. If you're teaching piano lessons in your home, your insurance agent should know it and should point you directly to the coverage in your policy that shows that you are covered. Most anything you're doing in your home for "business" purposes is excluded from coverage on most basic policies. Another thing to remember - if someone sues you, whether they have a right to recover or not, your insurance company, under most policies, will provide an attorney to defend you for that potential liability. Suppose I sue you because I thought you had a scary look on your face when you opened the door and it frightened me and now every time I see a front door similar to yours, I panic. As soon as you receive notice that you've been sued, you take that lawsuit to your insurance agent or put them on notice that you've been sued and they provide an attorney to defend you. If you've paid attorney's fees lately, you know that's something you don't want to pay out of your pocket. Just to make things a little more confusing, suppose I sue you and I claim my damages are $2 million. Most lawsuits nowadays do not put dollar amounts on their suits though. But, say during the course of discovery, the attorney finds out that my damages are going to be $500,000 and your homeowner policy limits are $250,000. Then they'll send you what they call an "excess letter" which means you have to get your own attorney to defend you for the potential liability over and above your policy limits. This is why some carry umbrella policies. We do and we upped our limits when DS started driving! I don't think it's fair but with the litigious nature of some folks today, we all need to be aware of our insurance limits, what's covered and not covered and we do not need to be taking chances. Nor, do we need to lose sleep worrying about our coverage. It's available, it's a cost of doing business and as moogiequilter said, if you don't want to pay the cost of the coverage, don't do whatever isn't covered. When we were in KY, we had a good price on our homeowner's insurance but it didn't cover liability for business. I used the Milne & Scali policy for the machines, quilts, etc. and didn't allow customers to come to my home. I did as moogie does and met customers at the quilt shops or I would pick quilts up if they were within a reasonable distance of my home. Personally, I think the lawsuits are totally out of hand and not to get political but . . how many of our Congressmen/women are attorneys? We desperately need tort reform in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Originally posted by JudyL Personally, I think the lawsuits are totally out of hand and not to get political but . . how many of our Congressmen/women are attorneys? We desperately need tort reform in this country. Thanks, Judy. Great info. Thanks for taking your valuable time to explain this to me. Much appreciated! ROTFLOL about Congressmen/women. Now, that's the fox watching the hen house. Hey, how many lawyers do we really need in this country, anyway? All these lawyers need something to keep themselves busy, so they'll get really creative (and do) if necessary. (no disrespect to lawyers in general as I know several super nice ones who are friends/coworkers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsbishwit Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I am going to weigh in on this subject as well... First of all the decision to have clients come to your home has to be an individual one. Only you know your own comfort level on this one. Me personally, I don't worry about this, why because as Shana was trying to say was the chances that an individual would actually get pyshically/ mentally hurt or injured by you the longer armer or your home is very miniscule. The amount of traffic comming & going into your home is not that large 2 maybe 3 clients per week on an average. And if you have maintained your property (as you should) fix any uneven walkways, secure any loose railings, keep your house clutter free from major obsticales, keep pets behind closed doors in other parts of the house, etc... the chances of a person getting hurt is even less. We have people comming and going from our homes every day. Anytime a friend or realative drops by, anytime a childs friend comes to play, or even when there is a delivery made to your home. Would you be worried that they too will sue you if something would happen? Are we to stop having human contact all together at our homes because of fear that someone would sue if or when they got hurt? I won't But this is my own decision and everyone that plans on opperating a home business will have to come to there own decisions about this matter based on their own personal circumstances. We here at the forum can just give scenarios concerning this subject and what decisions we have made for ourselves. Remember there is no right or wrong way to approach this situation, it comes down to personal comfort levels. I agree with Judy, that our country has gotten a bit "sue happy" over the years and that there should be some sort of guidelines and restraint when it comes to lawsuits but as she said most of congress is made up by laywers and as long as that is the case chances of reform is not likely. On the bright side though the rogue judge that was suing the dry cleaners millions because of his pants, well justice did prevail not only did he not win the lawsuit but he is required to pay all legal bills that the dry cleaners built up as the result of the suit. So a happy ending for the small business owner. Joann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyL Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Joann: Just to make one distinction -- friends, family, children coming to play are probably covered under your homeowner's policy. Business pursuits probably are not. You're right -- it's a personal decision and all this talk on here makes it sound way more complicated than it is and I'm sure there are others operating without liability insurance. Having worked for attorneys for many years, and having seen how quick people are to sue, I will always be sure to have adequate insurance coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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