quiltaholi_518 Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hi all, I had another member email about pros and cons of the Liberty, and I spent alot of time on the response trying to cover all aspects, and thought it approprite to share what I told her. I know this is always an ongoing topic, and on many soon-to-be-owners minds. So here you go........... Hi Sandra, life is all about weighing pros and cons in our choices......... I think the biggest difference between the Liberty and the Millie is that with a Liberty you have to do a bit more planning to cover the space with out rolling and re-rolling too much. If you are doing custom, you can do a 12" block no problem, but if it's on point, you place it so you can get at the farthest corner from you, start the custom work (as continuous as possible) at say 8 o'clock, work clockwise to 4 o'clock, and then roll forward a bit to finish the bottom 1/3. But of course if you have 4 blocks going across, you rinse lather and repeat, 4 times, lol. I am 52 now and have had my share of shoulder problems, and I found if I pushed myself to try and quilt the farthest reaches of the quilting area on a millie, not only could I not see what the heck I was doing out there, but I would loose control and have to roll the quilt closer to me anyway. I am tall, so I did not feel the need at the time for the motorized feed, thinking I could add it at any time. I regret that now, because it's really hard to part with $1400. If I would have rolled it in to the price, no biggie really. Now, if you think you are fascinated with the Circle Lord or Hartley Fence, that IS an argument for a larger field. I do not have one, I am really more of a freehand/custom gal, but I don't think it makes much sense on a Liberty. Does Linda Stellar have one? If so she would be the one to ask, or you can start a new forum with the query. But, you don't have the issues with reach when you are using either of those tools. I guess my argument against those, and pantos (which I do use sparingly, and no it's not hard to find pantos to fit) is if you do a certain panto, and I do the same one, I feel like it's really not my "work" and that there is no individualism to it. Bit if I freehand a design, it's like my handwriting, no two alike. Some of my clients can tell when work is mine. One of my best clients walked up to another new client after show and tell ( (she forgot to say who quilted it!) and said, "Oh, I can tell Caron Carlson quilted that for you" and I really like that aspect. And as far as not being able to run a business with a Liberty, that's baloney. I know a gal that does about 6-8 quilts a month for others with a Handi-Quilter16 and she's in her mid-sixties! If you are motivated, you can use a tredle machine if you must!! So, bottom line, do I feel cheated with a smaller quilting field? Not really, but there are days when I am doing the big custom quilt from hell that I wish I could get it done a bit faster. Now I am actually debating a CQ, and then I would upgrade to a millie, because having the larger area to digitize would make total sense, and then you are taking the "reach" argument out of the picture. And I always thought too, if the bottom drops out of this market, a Liberty will be an easier sell. Anyway, I think I may post this response, because I think alot of wannabes always have these questions on their minds. Like I say, life is just a series of choices, some easier and some more difficult.......... Have a quilty day! Caron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethDurand Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Before I bought my girl, and was still reeling from the price, I visited with a friend who has another brand of LA machine. Her comment was that if your are going to spend that much money, you might as well spend a few extra for the bells and whistles. As long as you have the room for it, that is. My humble opinion. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Darlington Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hi Beth, Thanks for writing your opinion. I am so very interested in how everyone responds to Caron's post. If I was absolutely sure I could handle the Millie, I guess that would be my choice, but I had a hard time with it and felt rather comfortable on the Liberty. The difference in price isn't going to be my deciding factor; it will just mean I would need to save a bit longer if I get the Millie. What will determine my decision is how I quilt with the machine. So far, the Liberty is winning in that respect, but I am stilll wanting to try them again and also may throw in the Freedom with SR into this mix. I hope some others will post their opinions, too. I would love to hear from all of you. Thanks, Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethDurand Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hi Sandy, One of the reasons that I went with the Millie is my height. At 6 feet, I've got arms and legs to spare, and it's easy for me to reach the opposite side of the machine. My friend with a Gammill got a smaller one because she is shorter, and can't reach that far. Out of sheer curiosity, what's the difference in feel for you on the liberty vs. mille? I love my Millie, and I'm sure that whatever you decide will be right for you. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Darlington Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hi Beth, I tried the Millie two times in the last few weeks. Different machines, but both had the same feel of being stiff as I stitched from front to back, curving left. If I tried to make a circle, or loop, it looked like a backwards "D." It also seemed to almost fishtail, although that is a bit of an exageration. When I tried the Liberty, it glided along with me. Nice round loops. Does it just take getting used to the Millie, and in time I could overcome the tendency to square off the circles? I felt like I had to "man-handle" the machine in that part of the curve, but ease up in the other directions. It just felt a bit odd; sorry I can't seem to explain it any better. Did you experience this when you first were getting to know your Millie? Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecl Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I own both machines. I like them for different reasons. I love the liberty for its ability to move easily for detailed work. I use it mostly for custom work, SID and fine background work. There are times when I wish there were at least 2 more inches of quilting space and I would be even happier. Then it wouldn't be as light as it is. My millie has a compuquilter (love my CQ) so I am most thankful for the throat space when running pantographs. I can run a pantograph at large as 16 inches comfortably on a large quilt. I love the ability to stitch large blocks with the CQ. If I had to buy only one machine it would be a Millie or Freedom with S/R. I removed the lower thread cutter because I didn't really care to use it. I quilted too many years bringing the bobbin thread to the top. I still prefer to bring the bobbin thread to the top so it can be buried. It did lighten up the Millie a little. I just like the throat space on the Millie better but I love the Liberty because it is so light. Maybe the wheels were not adjusted correctly on the 2 millies you tried. My doesn't fish tail. But I understand what you mean about the Liberty just gliding along...that is why I have one. Cheryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlittle1 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Well, I started out with a Liberty, but two weeks ago traded up to a Millie. I had the Liberty for 2 1/2 years. Its a great machine, but you are restricted on quilting area and on the view that you have of your work. The Millie moves just as easily as the Liberty if it is adjusted right. DH was trying to fix something for me on the stitch regulator tonight and he tightened up my wheels. It acted just like was described at the start of this topic. My circles came out looking like this: D. I about fainted because it moved so smoothly before. He re-adjusted them and they're a lot better, but still not like I want them to be, so he'll be working on it again tomorrow. By the way, getting those perfect circles takes practice, too. They don't just happen for most of us. I'm just under five feet tall and I have no problem reaching to work close to the back of the MIllie as long as I'm not doing closely detailed work. But even with the Liberty I would move it up closer to me if I was doing heavy detail. I have chronic neck and shoulder pain and I always felt like I was reaching over to work on the Liberty because of the configuration of the Liberty's handles. But the Millie has the ergonomic handles that come toward me and can be moved up and down so I don't get "stuck" in one position all day. Last week I moved a bunch of boxes and my neck and shoulders wound up worse than they've been in about five years. I only missed one day of quilting because of it. The next day I was able to quilt for an hour and then rest for thirty minutes. I would have had to reverse that pattern with the Liberty or my shoulders would have tightened up too much. Remember that everytime you roll the Liberty back and forth to complete a block you will have to release your clamps on one end, release them on the second end, walk down to the end of the Liberty, unlock it, roll the quilt where you want it, lock the rollers, re-attach the clamps on one end and then re-adjust them on the other end. When you have to do that four or five times for each block, it adds up to a lot of time. Of course, half the time I just rolled it a bit without unlocking or re-adjusting the clamps. But your brake will wear out faster if you do that. There are a lot of pantos that you can't do at all unless you are willing to roll them back and forth and try to keep your work lined up perfectly. Some of the pantos you have to roll the Liberty twice to the Millie's once. Then you're not only running up and down the Liberty, you're also running from the front to the back of the Liberty to line things up. Maybe you don't have to do that if you are tall, but I have to do it at my height. Time is money when you are in business so anything you can do to eliminate all those steps is well worth it. In my opinion, if you are sure that you will never start a business the Liberty is a great machine. But if you think there is the possibility that you will want to use it for business purposes, get the Millie or the Freedom SR to start with. Oh, another point to consider. The Millie is only about $3000.00 higher than the Liberty when you buy it new. But if you decide somewhere along the way that you want to upgrade to the Millie, you will probably spend twice that much to upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linda S Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 The Liberty isn't missing a single bell or whistle. We don't have electronic channel locks, but we have manual locks. We don't have the lower thread cutter -- how many of you really use that? I pull all my threads to the top and can't think of a single instance when I would want it. We don't have the on-board bobbin winder. Again, how many of you actually use that thing? I'll bet most of you use a manual winder or buy pre-wounds. Yes, the Millie is bigger. That's about it. I can't reach that far without hurting myself. I saw absolutely no reason to spend an extra $3000 for space I wouldn't be using. That's an awful lot of thread, pantos, stencils, fabric, and batting. I do know a few people who have "upgraded." I can't think of anything that would make me want to do that. If you had your own reasons, bless you, but I can spend that extra money to better effect. I've had my Liberty for more than three years and you'd have to pry her from my cold dead hands. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Farnham Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hey Linda- I always love your input!! Honest and to the point. Love the "..pry her from my cold dead hands." I Drive a Green Millenium and I feel the same about my Baby. Just gotta go for what feels right for each individual. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Darlington Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Cheryl, Phyllis, Linda and Laura, Thank you all for the input. I really appreciate your time and effort to help me in my "quest." The verdict is still "out" and I will continue to save and do more research until I decide just which APQS machine is right for me. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlittle1 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Sandra, One other suggestion, work with a dealer when you are ready to buy. The dealer should spend the time to find out what you are wanting out of your machine. You will build a relationship with that dealer so that you know you can contact that dealer and get help with any problems. If you are going to have a problem, I guarantee that it will be at 5:20 p.m. on a Friday while you are working on a quilt that has to be delivered on Monday. John Mitchell of Countrylane Quilters spent a couple of hours on the phone Sunday afternoon troubleshooting my stitch regulator. As you can tell, each of us has strong opinions about the machines that we have. You really have to make the decision that is best for you after you weigh the pros and cons of each machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I have been reading this thread with interest. One of the challenges of asking owners opinions is that most APQS owners are very happy with the model of machine they own. Most owners only own one machine and love it. The last post is from one of our clients and she was very good at looking at both machines. Janet and Mary of Country Lane Quilting have been quilting professionally since 1976. We have owned several APQS and one non APQS machine. We have had a Discovery, Liberty, Freedom with a CQ and a Millennium. We have just sold our Liberty to purchase another Millennium. Each machine has its advantages. I would suggest you contact a dealer who will work with you to help you make the decision that is correct for you. A Millennium will get more quilting done in the same length of time than a Liberty. If you are in the business as a professional quilter more production in the same time equals more $ per hour. You are trading your time for $. I do not know the exact ratio at this time but the Millennium has normally outsold the other machines 9 to 1, As far as used, a Millennium will be much easier to sell than a Liberty. We have sold many of both and the Millenniums sell quicker. We not only view the machines as a dealer would but also someone who is in the business of quilting for others. The choice of a machine needs to be made on what are your present and future needs, goals and plans. If we help with personal service please call our Studio at 816-350-2002 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiltNutOne Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 in our shop. i just bought a liberty in August in the 3 weeks i've had it, i've quilted 15 quilts. i love how its lighter than the millie and how you can see over the machine. i found the size of the millie a little intimidating lol. i find the smaller quilting area not be a problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyllis Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'm glad Linda chimed in here....she is a contented Liberty owner. I have a Mille and love her but I sometimes think that if I had it to do over I would get the Liberty. However that being said, I love the throat space on the Mille. Would NOT (EVER) get the thread cutter again. It is such a waste. When I bought my Mille I was told that you HAD to have the thread cutter. I'm so gullible and was really green about quilting and took them at their word. Took classes at MQS and saw the "big girls" bringing the thread up and cutting it off. Wow! How much neater is that......no hanging threads to get caught in the wheels. So, the only thing I would change on my Mille is not having the thread cutter. Good luck with you decision, Sandy. I'm sure that you will get whatever is right for you. And whichever machine you get you are going to love and have so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lsilver Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I have a Millenium and the throat space is really a plus. Also, about the "stiffness" of the machine, I made a few minor adjustments on the wheels and they are perfect... the machine stitches nice round feathers instead of "backward D's" Any machine has a learning curve and adjustments are surprisingly easy to make. One thing for sure, you will love whichever APQS you get,and the folks at the factory are so helpful. I got my machine in late Dec... didn't have any problems until last week, and it was a problem that was troubleshot over the phone, and quickly. The support is fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belquilt Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Its so hard to decide which model to get, you need to get what's best for you. I had a hard time deciding myself last year, so I narrowed it down to the features I wanted. As I am a hobby quilter, doing some quilting for people for $. But If I was going to do this as a business, I think my choice may have been different. I narrowed it down to the Liberty, The Freedom SR and the Millie. I have a back/neck problem so the Liberty was a breeze to use. So I got the Liberty. Yes, there are times that I wish I had that extra quilting space. But not many....The other thing was the table length, Since my space was limited, I got a 10 ft table with wheels. There is many times now I wish I could have gotten the longer table!!!!! I actually had to pay another LAer to quilt a king size quilt for me!!! Oh well. As for the thread cutter, I have heard more bad things than good, so if there is anyone out there with positive feedback on the threadcutter - please chim in. Again as stated by Linda, which ever model you choose, you can't go wrong with an APQS. That decision I am glad I made. I love my Liberty. The machine is wonderful, the support is great. You can't go wrong. If at all possible, go try them out. And let us know which one you order!!!!:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 As someone said, everyone seems to love their own machines. I have never had anything but the Millie. I use the thread cutter, but after my last quilt have vowed to stop using the thread cutter. If the thread cutter is the only thing you are looking for, you should really think about it. I used the thread cutter and spent over 2 hours cutting threads from the back of that quilt. Plus I kept getting caught on the threads while quilting and then had to frog because I was trying to go one way and the machine was trying to go another. Throat space is a plus. I just did a quilt with 20" blocks. When you put the base extender on to use your rulers you lose some of the throat space. I'm happy I had the space that I did, even though I had to roll the quilt some, I was still able to cover a large area. I don't think I know what the "D" stitch is. I don't have that problem. If anyone should have back problems it is me. Three car wrecks from the rear end have left me with a lot of neck and jaw problems. Shoulder surgery and carpel tunnel surgery in both wrists. Oh, and don't forget tendonitis in my right arm. But I can handle the Millie just fine. I take breaks. When I start I tell myself that I will take a break once an hour, but then I get going and I forget - so that means no pain. I do take about a 15 minute break about every hour and a half. If I had it to do again I would get the Millie, although I think I could learn to love the Liberty too...I just have the room for the Millie, so that's what I got. I'm a Millie lover!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I am mostly a lurker here but I'd thought I'd chime in on this topic. My first machine was a Freedom - I could not afford the Millie and the Liberty did not exist yet. About a year later I upgraded and downsized to my Liberty. First because I wanted a stitch regulator, second, because I could not reach or use all the space between the rollers. I also found I had frequent upper back pain. I've had my Liberty for almost 3 years and love it. I do mostly custom work but there are plenty of lovely pantographs that I can do also. I actually prefer the handles on my Liberty to the ones I had on my Freedom, they seem more inline with the needle and where I am stitching. With my Freedom I frequently used my micro handles, I have never needed them on my Liberty. The one negative I can think of the the visibility to the needle could be better, if only she was a we bit taller. And for the record I am in business, she makes a great partner;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Darlington Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Thanks everyone for your comments. I've read each one, and some I read twice as I gave a lot of thought to them. I think if I had the cash right now, it would be a Green Liberty. Who knows, by the time I have the cash, I might be back to wanting a Green Millie. I guess I will continue to read about these great machines and try them at every chance I get. I am still undecided about starting a business, but I want to keep that as an option. Hopefully, around December a Greenie will become available and I'll just go for it! Wish me luck. Thanks again for all of your responses. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linda S Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Let's face it. The Millennium is popular (and more easy to resell) because most folks really believe that you have to buy the top of the line of anything in order to be happy. That's all well and good, but some of us know that you can make do with a little less space and do just as well, plus save some bucks. As far as losing quilting space when you put on the extended base, there is a quick fix for this. Raise your rollers. It only takes a few minutes and you end up with no loss of space whatsoever. I have not missed having "extra space". I did a quilt for Marsha McCloskey in her Fat Eighths and Friends book that has 16" circles on it. I used my Circle Lord and did the circles in 2 arcs. They came out great. I do mostly custom quilting. If I have blocks that are bigger than the 11-12" I have available, I sit on my saddle stool with the advance control in my lap and move the quilt back and forth. Also, because I sit to quilt, I don't have any issues with the handles on my Liberty. As everyone says - buy the machine that is best for you. Another thing that is often said -- It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it! Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigletaz Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Sandra, have you considered a Freedom SR (no lower thread cutter and such), but you get the stitch regulator, same throat space and many other great features same as the Millie. The price is lower so you can save some $$. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Darlington Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Renee, Thanks for that suggestion. Yes, I did try the Freedom SR and I liked it better than the Millie that was at the same road show. I wonder if the weight has something to do with this. I just looked at the specs on these machines: Liberty = 37 lbs; Freedom SR = 45 lbs; Millenium = 52 lbs. Linda, I'm still laughing at your last sentence! You're a hoot! Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gable428 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi there. Another thing to take into consideration is your size. Are you tall? Would you be able to reach further with a bigger machine if you had to? Would you be able to handle the weight of a heavier machine? If these things could be an issue, I would go with the Liberty. I'm sure either way, you will become part of your machine and will love it no matter what. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzsmom Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 This has been an interesting discussion. I am glad that people with back problemms have spoken up. I have a collapsed lumbar spine and am 5'3". I want to have a business to supplement my disability check. It seems that the Liberty is the best choice for a person with a disability. Let me know if I am wrong. Note that a wheelchair is in my future. I need a model that can accommodate this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigletaz Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I believe there are people here on the chat who sit down while quilting. The George is a sit down only machine - have you considered that... I realize it is not stitch regulated but it is at cabinet/table height. So it could accommodate a wheel chair. Also, have you considered a Lenni? That might be another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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