NQR-VP Debate

[Quilting Heidi]

Sheryl,

Your situation is a tough one to be in and I feel for you. I agree with need health insurance reform badly and I think we would be way better off to have a general plan that self-employed people like yourself could buy into. The reason your insurance is so high is because your not getting a group rate and there should be a system in place that would give you the group rate. I'm afraid to tell you that under a state program Daniel might not get the care or medication he needs. It is very common to have the medications changed to cheaper drugs. My husband had to try 3 different drugs before they would give him the Lipitor that his body didn't react to. He was on Lipitor for years and then they made him try new cheaper ones. He had some really bad reactions and it put his health in jeapardy for no reason as far as I'm concerned. This is what you would get on a govt. based system. Not to mention that Daniel might not have even gotten seen. The only reason I got my daughter in after her 3rd seizure was because my family practice doc was my best friends husband! She was my quilting bud and still is. He got out of the Navy because they wouldn't let him practice medicine the way it should be done. We definitely need reform so that you don't have to stress like this. My mother too paid $800 a month for health insurance. Now she is finally eligible for medicare and buys a supplement that costs her $500 a month. She spends over 12,000 a year on supplemental insurance, medication and co-pays. That doesn't include any other emergency treatments. It is scary. I pray that whoever gets elected they get this resolved!

[sammi357]

"Scary that she has the possibility of being a heartbeat away from the presidency....."

"Of the fourteen vice presidents who fulfilled their ambition by achieving the presidency, eight succeeded to the office on the death of a president, and four of these were later elected president. Two vice presidents, Hannibal Hamlin and Henry Wallace, were dropped from the ticket after their first term, only to see their successors become president months after taking office, when the assassination of Abraham Lincoln made Andrew Johnson president and the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt raised Harry Truman to the presidency. Similarly, when Spiro Agnew resigned, he was replaced under the Twenty-fifth Amendment by Gerald R. Ford, who became president when Richard M. Nixon resigned less than a year later. "

[shadows4]

When I was growing up people didn't look to their government to "take care of them". They looked to family, the church, etc. It's so dangerous to look to governments to be our caretakers with universal healthcare, etc. Where does it stop?

I'm sorry, but universal healthcare isn't free. You still pay premiums or levy, and would have even less control over it than you do now. Where would that money come from? US! I believe that's a slippery slide into socialism. Giving things for "free" doesn't teach folks to do better or plan better for next time, but to expect a handout, and to keep on the same path.

Bad things happen to good people. That's where communities, families, churches, etc. should (and used to) step up to the plate and help each other out. When we rely on government to do this, we lose that sense of community that's an important part of the fiber of the country. It binds a people together to help others, and not ignore our neighbor's plight. We're fast losing that.

People can disagree and discuss in a friendly manner. There's no need for snide comments and in making personal attacks on candidates. Why can't we just stick with the issues? By the way, I agree with the "white flag" comment, and, Heidi: You go girl!

[Quilting Heidi]

Here's something interesting. We just got home from a Baptism of two precious babies. It was held at a Catholic church. I'm not Catholic but was shocked that even the sermon included talk about the election. Now the Priest was very careful to not say one side over the other but to think about this and think about that when you cast your vote and it went on for a good little bit. The first thing my hubby said as we were leaving was that he how much things had changed over the years and he couldn't ever remember having an experience like that before. After the mass both moms were shocked at the polical talk. I guess you just can't get away from it. I'm off to go quilt.

[Terri S.]

I think both candidates, and a lot of Americans, are overlooking the basic problem with affordable healthcare -- litigation. We need tort reform. How many times do you go to the doctor with what seems to be a simple problem, just to have a plethora of tests run? Most of those tests are run for CYA purposes. Universal health care is doomed to fail in the US unless attorney fees and jury awards are brought back into reality.

Terri S.

[Hollyrw]

Church leaders being involved in politics is nothing new. Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, to name a few.

[Deb2bie]

Health care in general is a mess. My daughter has Blue Cross Blue Shield provided by her employer but she pays a premium also. She had abdominal pain and heavy bleeding for several months. She had DRs. tell her is was sciatic and she should take Tylenol, stress from her pending divorce, and a mirad of other diagnoses. She persisted because she is skilled at internet searching and decided she had Cancer. Well, I've always taught my kids to follow their gut but I really thought she was being a little paranoid, afterall, cancer happens to other people!!! Well, I'm sure you've all figured out that she DID have cancer. I could hardly believe my ears. What a mix of emotions!!! One was pride that she was right and had persisted!!! She had a complete hysterectomy on Dec. 20th, 2007. The cancer was small and they feel they got it all. If she had listened to the first Dr.s who were getting a nice fee from BCBS, She might be having a very different life right now. She is only 35 (34 at time of surgery). One Dr., after the initial diagnosis of cancer, even told her she was too young and pretty to have cancer!!!! I was there and heard it!! My point (yes I have one!!!) is that no Dr. no matter what they are paid and by whom is perfect. There are a lot of DR.s that weren't at the top of thier class in med school!!!!! I'm not trying to diminish the pain and suffering of the people who posted earlier, their stories, like my daughters, are terrible. BUT the same thing happening could happen in the civilian world with any insurance. I too had a bad experience at an Air Force hospital. 3 Dr. visits --all said post partum blues---I was tired and nauseous. Finally on the fourth visit I got a good DR and he diagnosed Hepatitis A. This was 1973---I don't do drugs and it isn't Hep A or C. I guess it was the black urine and yellow skin that tipped him off as much as anything but at leaswt he looked!!! We lived in Northern MI near the Canadian border and lots of Canadian came to our DR.s and paid their way so they could be treated in a timely manner. I don't know what the answer is but let's not jump too quickly into the fire from the pot!!!

Thanks for letting me vent, I hope I haven't offended anyone here. I just wish we could have all the facts to make decisions but if wishes were horses, eh??

[Gator]

I agree with all of you. Something needs to be done about healthcare but what, is it the insurance companies or is it the medical system's charges? All our local hospitals are under Sentara now, no such thing as a privately owned one. Now that I am in the "civilian" system somethings blow my mind. I had to have a shoulder xray with dye a few months ago. When I got the bill for $6,000 I gasped, they charged me $1000.00 just for using the room nothing else!! Maybe someone needs to investigate why healthcare costs so much. At these prices how long can the insurance companies keep up.

[judie01]

My parents had military health care after my Dad retired from the Air Force in '57.

Then it was pretty good, but by the time Dad was of true retirement age -- it was terrible care. I will go to the hereafter absolutely believing that Tricare killed him. They watched that spot grow on his lung for over 6 months before they said a word and by then he had prostrate cancer and before it was done it had invaded his lymph gland system & at the end it took out his voice. Tricare waited a year after the lung surgery to begin prostrate treatment but by then it was too late-- it had invaded the lymph system! He suffered for 5 long years before he died; he suffered & died unnecessarily because of indifferent, passive

care --.

Everyone of us needs health care -- good health care at an affordable price! But with socialized health care comes the danger of "selective care" -- where they choose who gets "that money" spent on them-- based on their criteria.

It's very scary stuff!

Judie01

[kreacher]

Judie

From time to time things like this also happen in the private sector healthcare system. Atleast in that system a victims family does have some recourse. They can sue for damages. Those who argue for TORT reform would open the door for all kinds of your type of events if the TORT reformers get thier way.

[Susanne.Hughes]

Hello All,

We don't have free healthcare in either Australia or in Canada. What we have is a universal system that everyone pays for through their taxes. We then upgrade from that with health insurance that we pay for out of our own pockets. How much cover you take out depends on how healthy you are, your financial circumstances etc etc

The point is, that even if you cannot afford health insurance, you are still covered by the government and you can still get the treatment you need without having to sell or loosing your home. If you suffer a heart attack or stroke, the specialists that treat me also work at the public hospitals. And there is no huge bill at the end. If I need xrays, they are also free. When I had to have an MRI, it did cost $400.00, but I did get $300.00 back from the insurance. If I did not have healthcoer, I still would have been able to gt it done but would have had a grater waiting time (problem covered was not an emergency life or death type thing!) If I need blood tests done, they are also covered by medicare.

One of the problems is the fact that healthcare is no longer a service only. Like Banking, it is a Business. And it is a business run Worldwide by multinational conglomerations which have to make profits for their shareholders. Why is healthcare so expensive in the US? I would suppose its the cost of insurance premiums that professionals have to pay because, lets face it, americans are very lititious(?sp). We think our costs are skyhigh, but they are nothing compared to the USA. Your system doesn't allow for the easy movement between doctors either. I can choose to vote with my feet and I can walk into any Drs or specialist''s surgery wherever and whenever, to get treatment and both the medicare (government co-payment) and my health insurance will cover me. I think a lot of HBOs in the US have certain number of Drs only, that they cover.

As far as the military system is concerned, I paid for my husband to get treatment from a Chiropractor (and yes, we had discussions pro and con in another thread about these health practitioners a few months back ) for a damaged shoulder muscle when he/we were serving in the US. The military Drs kept giving him painkillers that kept knocking him out... it amazes me still, that he didn't manage to kill himself or others whilst driving home on these prescription painkillers. I was not impressed with the system at all! The point is, if at first you are not getting the care you deserve, or you think you and your loved ones need, then you have to agitate until you do get it. (Just as you would complain about bad service at a hotel etc). This applies to all systems, be they free or paid for!

Now, whether to trust a Federal Government or not, like we Australians and Canadians seem more willing to do - is another thread discussion entirely and could perhaps encompass the ideals of compulsory voting in National elections!! I am sure that we could get some very different viewpoints for these topics as well. Remember my friends, you cannot blame anyone for the bad/indifferent/not so good politicians that sit in government, if you haven't made the effort to ensure that your vote counts. You might not be able to stop them being elected, but you have made yourself heard! If your representatives are electerd by less than 50% of those elligible to vote, it doesn't mean that 60% voted against them, it means that 60% couldn't care less or were too apathetic to say eihter yes or no, in other words, they don't care how their lives are being run. As the Australian government slogan pronounced for the last elections over here................. YOUR VOTE IS THE MOST PRECIOUS THING YOU OWN! Use it wisely.

I wish all of you, the best of luck in these upcoming elections, because not only will you be affected, but so will the rest of the World, and that should be a really scary concept for all Americans.

[lizziesgirl]

Wow Susanne you put things really well. You are right about all the crap that our Drs. have to deal with and us as well when it comes to ins.

Heidi, as for Daniel getting the proper meds and treatment, we are very fortunate to have an awesome neurologist at the U of M. He is a fighter and put his foot down for the medication that Daniel takes.

[Quilting Heidi]

Sheryl,

Thats great that you have a doctor like that. The last time my husband went to the VA to get his meds filled he was told even with a doctors note he would have to try a minimum of 3 new meds before they would give him the one the doctor wanted him to have! Needless to say he walked out and is using our private health insurance to get his meds! Just so darn frustrating.

I have a good friend whose hubby is a physician and I hear the horror stories of them trying to get paid for services. His malpractice insurance got so bad that he had to drop OB services. He is a general practioner and an awesome physician. He was actually my daughters doctor when her seizure disorder started many, many years ago. Thankfully he was our neighbor and came over immediately when she had her first seizure, ran all the right tests and went to bat for us to get the MRI. Even with that it took a month and she had 3 seizures in the mean time.

Hopefully we'll get some kind of reform so nobody has to suffer when they really need medical attention!

[Deb2bie]

Sheryl, Hurray for U/M!!!! They aren't all pefect theren by far, but I owe them for the life of 3 of my closest love ones--DD, DH and my Grandpa. I thnik you chances of having a good Dr. and good experience are higher there. I'm so glad Daniel has a good Dr. and is getting the treatment he needs. U/M personnel have a lot of support systems for helping when they have tough times with insurance, patients or anything else. I thinnk that is one of the key reasons for the climate of care. Dr.s in private practice don't have much to turn to when things get them down. The U/M people are able to really care because little things don't get in the way. No bias here but--- DH does work as Emergency management/disaster preparedness at UM hospitalS!!!!

[Deb2bie]

Sorry about the choppy spelling!!! I usually try to proof read before I hit send!!!

[Carolyn]

Originally posted by kennan100

Okey Dokey! Gotta tell you, dropping the "g" from the end of a word is strictly up to what part of the world or country you happen to be from. I'm absolutely positive that were some of you come here I would be equaly amused at your language, Would I make fun of you? No. Would I hold you up to ridicule? No. Grow up. Accents and variations in pronunciation varies from location to location and it happens all over the world. I am from Texas. That is how our accents make the words sound, If you have a problem with that then here is a very Texas saying for you to chew on: "I'm from Texas and I don't care what you think!". A little rude? Well back at 'cha. Oh, and the mispronunceation of the word nuclear occured one time - so get over it. I'm thinking that ignorance and intolorence shows up more in the opinions we hold, and that crosses every border state, international, provincial, parish, language, educational, and income. When my family moved from Texas to Missouri when I was in third grade the teachers and other kids treated me as though I were retarded, or just plain stupid because of my accent, did it hurt my feelings? Of course it did. Did they find out they were wrong? Maybe some of those same students live in Canada now. Ya think? Oh, and I totally agree with the white flag comment.

Heidi, Lovin' ya!

Oh, gee. I hope you don't think we [Canadians] invited them!

Hugs,

Carolyn