Looking for feedback on small bobbin

[qolfquiltbuddy]

I'm interested in hearing from those of you with an APQS machine, your opinions of the small bobbin. I had a machine with the small bobbin, went to a large bobbin and love not having to change it as often. However, I'm very interested in getting a Millie but am worried about going back to a small bobbin.

So what are your thoughts, opinions, do you use SoFine or something thinner in the bobbin when using King Tut or a similiar thread?

Thanks!

[mrsbishwit]

changing bobbins doesn't bother me...I like the APQS machines and changing bobbins on a quilt machine to me is no different than it is on my Bernina sewing machine.

[quiltmonkey]

Hi Judy, I am not sure what you mean by "small" bobbin because I don't consider the APQS bobbins as small. But if you are comparing the L size to the M size, I guess we need to really look at these two side by side and see....is the size really REALLY that much different? It might be a little bit smaller, but really not that much, is it? Out of curiosity, I would like to know the acutal size comparison. How much more do you get on the L rather than the M. If anyone knows and would like to chime in and tell me I would like to have your thoughts.

If I recall, the APQS chose the smaller size bobbin to help eliminate issues with backlash, etc.

I use mostly Bottom Line in my bobbins, even with King Tut or other sized threads in the top. No problem at all. I wind my own bobbins so when I'm using one I fill another. It takes just a minute to swap out.

[Quilting Heidi]

Judy,

I did a lot of research on the smaller bobbin vs the larger bobbin. I decided that it made complete sense to me that the large the bobbin the more likely it was that you would have tension issues as you used the larger bobbin because the spin is bigger and bigger as you reduce the amount of thread on the bobbin. When you first start using the bobbin there is bigger area of thread and as you go down in the amount of thread the more the bobbin has to spin to feed thread. Hope that makes sense. Anyway the more spin the more Inertia is created which is what causes your problems. I used primarily Sofine top and bottom. Sometimes I go to BottomLine. When I'm working on a project with lots and lots of thread, like a whole cloth with lots of stitching I use prewound bottomline. It is a tough decision. I have a milli and love it!

[Darlene Epp]

Hi Judy,

There is a specific reason why APQS chose to stay with the standard "L" size bobbin. Our small "smart" bobbin gives more consistent stitches and tension at ALL speeds. I've noticed that owners that have the "M" bobbin reccommend using the same thread color front and back as well as asking the customer to bring a "busy" backing.

I regularly use solid fabrics (good quality muslin is my favorite) with one color in the bobbin and other colors in the top, depending on what color is needed for the area I'm working on.

I usually use the Bottom Line pre-wound bobbins or wind Sew Fine. I use these 2 threads with any thread I want to on top, including King Tut.

As with everything in life, there are pros and cons. For me, the pros of using the smaller bobbin far outweigh the inconvenience of having to change the bobbin more often.

[Sandra Darlington]

I never had the large bobbins, so I really can't compare, but I don't mind changing the bobbins on my Liberty. I do use a thin thread in the bobbin most of the time (I like So-Fine), so I get more yardage than if I ran a heavy thread.

You may notice a difference in the number of times you need to change your bobbin in the beginning, but I think you will appreciate the APQS machine and soon will not mind the bobbin changes. As you will read on this site, everyone loves their machines. People with problems get advise and service very quickly. Most people don't seem to have problems. This aspect is the main reason I chose APQS over a few other machines I was researching during the 5 years I was saving for a longarm.

[Bonnie]

I don't think one should buy based on the bobbin size....but by the stitch quality and the easy of the machine use. Now does that APQS only...no, it what works for you.

I have NEVER used another machine other than my OLD OLD ULT II, and at this time in my life I don't see a change, but I will say that when the time comes it will be for the quality of the machine not whether I like filling and stopping for a bobbin change. Besides when you quilt all day...that bobbin change is another reason to stop and stretch and take a potty break....

And I have to totally agree with Darlene....the bobbin changes are the least of my days worries....there are way bigger fish to fry than that...like is the quilt a wonky one, do I have enough thread in my stash to do this or do I need to run to town...things like that.

[meg_marsh]

I agree with Bonnie - stitch quality and how the machine feels to you. Much more important than the bobbin size.

I am finally getting an idea as to how many bobbins to wind when I first start a project - so during my prep I wind the initial number of bobbins needed - when used I throw them in a cup and this helps keep track of how many I actually use. Having the bobbins already wound makes changing the bobbin a snap - an added plus is it makes me look at the bobbin area to see how clean it is - if lint is starting to form I give it a quick clean out. I also am finding that in some instances I just change the bobbin at certain places to avoid running out of thread at inconvenient places. So........... size and changing the bobbin really isn't an issue for me........... love my Millie.

[Robin]

To me even the M size bobbin isn't big enough. My husband says there ought to be a way you could rig up a full cone to run through the bobbin case! Maybe he should patent that idea!

On the Gammill site it says that the M bobbin has double the capacity, to answer Shana's question.

[Bonnie]

Originally posted by Robin

To me even the M size bobbin isn't big enough. My husband says there ought to be a way you could rig up a full cone to run through the bobbin case! Maybe he should patent that idea!

On the Gammill site it says that the M bobbin has double the capacity, to answer Shana's question.

See us Montana girls/guys think alike...Gene has said this many times...but then I throw things at him....I do need to use the potty once in a while...and if I was chained to the machine I would more than likely forget get to P**, and he would NEVER get a hot meal.:cool: So maybe Robin yours needs to rethink his thoughts on that.:cool:

[Mary Beth]

Darlene,

Thank you for saying you use two different colors. Isn't it amazing what it takes to make my day? There was a little discussion a while back about that and most of the comments were geared toward using the same color front and back. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong and all of my customer's quilts were going to fall apart some day. Yippe....If you do it to, then I know it's right.

Back to big vs little. I cannot comment really. I have only owned and used the APQS machines. I can say that I use prewounds - mostly, but even when I wind my own I have no problem changing the bobbins.

For me, if I were in the market for a new machine, the size of the bobbin would not be a consideration, but that's just me

[Johnmach]

Regarding yards per bobbin, Superior shows 85 yards per "L", 148 per "M". As stated above, the tradeoff between the two is stitch quality vs. longer time between bobbin changes. It takes longer for the stitch to form around a "M" hook (larger circumference).

Johnmach

[barbm]

Mary Beth, I use different colors top and bottom almost all the time - and I haven't had a quilt fall apart yet! My very first longarm teacher told me that I "MUST use the same color top and bottom - AND have a busy back." Of course, that shop didn't run APQS machines.....

Now, when I'm demoing my Millie for a potential machine buyer, I have a quilt sandwich on the machine - two different solid color fabrics and two very different color threads. After they've played with the machine for a while, I flip the sandwich over to the back to let them see the other colors. And their mouths usually hang open at this point, 'cause you can't see the top thread on the bottom or the bottom thread on the top. They get to take the quilt sandwich home with them - their first practice on a Millie.....

Back to the actual subject of this thread: Since I bought my first pre-wound bobbins at MQS last May, I haven't used anything but Superior's SuperBobs. According to their website, they hold 118 yds. of Bottom Line, and they run like a champ in my Millie. It seems like they run forever between bobbin changes, and like Bonnie said, you gotta go p-- sometime!

[qolfquiltbuddy]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I've never had any problems with backlash with the M bobbins. I use a pigtail bobbin case so maybe that's why. I also don't have issues with tension that can't be fixed with a turn of the tension disk. I also buy 2 cones of the same thread so I can have one on the bobbin winder so guess a smaller bobbin really doesn't matter at all. Thanks again for all the comments. Now if I just get this machine sold I can order a Millie

[quiltmonkey]

Judy, what type of machine are you selling? And curious, what sold you on ordering the Millennium?

[ramona-quilter]

Hi Qolfquiltbuddy,

I am going to ring in on this discussion mostly because I have had both APQS and Gammill machines.

I agree with Bonnie, Mary Beth, and BarbM, the size of the bobbin was a not a big consideration for me. I had a gotta have list when I went shopping for a new machine. I was looking for good stitch quality and how the machine moves for me. Those were my #1 and #2 on the list.

I am a big person (almost 6 ft tall) with long arms. I wanted the biggest throat I could find. My two APQS machines were 26" throats. The new machine I bought, a Gammill, has a 30" throat and great stitch quality. I work mostly from the front of the machine so I want a big workspace; the 30" throat machine moved well on somebody my size and that was my #2 reason satisfied. If APQS made a 30" throat, I would be driving it now because I loved my 2 APQS machines. You have to decide what fits on you.

Shana - you had to ask, didn't you. OK, according to Mr. Superior, L bobbins are 118 yds of BL and M bobbins are 215 yds BL. And that stuff about big bobbins losing or not having good tension is less than accurate. The bobbin tension depends on the wind and the bobbin tension setting. Sloppy wind = bad tension on any size bobbin.

Polyester. SuperBOBs are cardboard-sided prewound bobbins with The Bottom Line, a 60 wt. lint free polyester thread. L style bobbins hold 118 yds. per bobbin. A set of 72 bobbins (half gross) is $39 during December (regular $49.00). Available in 36 colors and four different assortment sets. Click here to view: http://www.superiorthreads.com/category/76

M-style SuperBOBs. Same as above, but the larger M style bobbins, with 215 yds. per bobbin. A set of 72 bobbins (half gross) is $49 during December (regular $59.00). Available in 36 colors and four different assortment sets. Click here to view: http://www.superiorthreads.com/category/74

Now these numbers do not apply to me, since I use mostly cotton and PermaCore. I still haven't done the Debbie Treusch recliner bobbin thread measuring test yet though so I can't say for certain what the diff is when you're talking cotton.:P

Now, don't get me wrong, I do like the larger bobbin and I love the "low bobbin" beeper alarm when I get down to my last 10 yards on the bobbins. They are"nice to haves".

But I wouldn't buy a Toyota instead of a Chevy just because it had more cup holders.:P

Qolf - you have to go with what works for you.

[quiltmonkey]

Originally posted by ramona-quilter

............I still haven't done the Debbie Treusch recliner bobbin thread measuring test yet though so I can't say for certain what the diff is when you're talking cotton.:P

OK you got me with curiosity...I want to know more about this "Debbi Treusch recliner bobbin thread measuring test."

Well... On second thought, maybe that's TMI and I shouldn't know!!!

[Robin]

I have really great stitch quality with my M bobbin brand x machine. And you can't believe what a picky person I am. I have seen some really poor stitch quality from long arm machines, but I don't know what brand they use. I truly think it is all in how you set the tension, not necessarily the brand of machine or the bobbin size. Just my 2 cents.

[qolfquiltbuddy]

I have a Nolting 24 Pro. It works great and I like everything about it except the stitch regulator and the channel locks. The channel locks are on the frame so I have to walk around to set/release them and the stitch regulator just isn't as good as the Millie. I seldom use the SR but when I do want to use it, I don't want to have to pay attention to it. My stitches are more even without the SR than with it. Not sure if I need to use it more to get use to it or maybe it just needs some adjusting.

However, I have played with both the Millie and A1 and like their SRs much better and would really like to have the channel locks on the control panel.

[Mary Beth]

Originally posted by quiltmonkey

Originally posted by ramona-quilter

............I still haven't done the Debbie Treusch recliner bobbin thread measuring test yet though so I can't say for certain what the diff is when you're talking cotton.:P

OK you got me with curiosity...I want to know more about this "Debbi Treusch recliner bobbin thread measuring test."

Well... On second thought, maybe that's TMI and I shouldn't know!!!

I wonder if it has anything to do with the "handy man" guy...you know the one that she broke his arm...that guy

[quiltmonkey]

Oh yes I remember Mr. Construction Cutie...

[TerriVB]

Judy--I would like to add one thing about a smaller bobbin. I bought my LA without even trying any of them--just liked the literature on APQS the best--and how the handles worked. Anyways--when I got it home and found out that my Bernina bobbin holds more than my LA--I was a little shocked--but this is what I do.

I do toe-touches while every bobbin fills!! I would like to say that it has improved my waistline--but then I would have to quit eating for that to happen--but it does keep me limber and not get so tight during those marathon quilting days!!

Just something to think about!!

[kimmiequilts]

I love my Millie and the bobbin size has never been an issue. I have thought of the whole cone to feed directly to the bobbin but that's just a thought. I use almost all Superior threads as well as pre-wound bobbins. I almost never have the same color thread top and bottom and it is hardly ever a problem. Superior now makes Masterpiece in the pre-wound bobbins, I like to use cotton in the bobbin when I use it on top and the same with poly threads.

[Darlene Epp]

Hi Linda,

You said: "And that stuff about big bobbins losing or not having good tension is less than accurate."

Please believe me, I was not trying to "slant" or give inaccurate information because I'm an admittedly biased APQS Dealer. I wouldn't do that, and anyone who knows me also knows that. HOWEVER, I've been teaching longarm machine quilting for almost 9 years to owners of ALL brands of machines. I hear a LOT of stories about these machines, and the one I most consistently hear from owners of machines with the larger bobbins, is their tension issues, and how they were told right from the start that they MUST use the same color thread top and back. The big name Gammill teachers are the ones teaching this, so it's not just my slanted opinion.

I'm really happy that your machine is timed so perfectly that you're getting good tension, but from what I hear on a regular basis, this is not the norm with a machine that has a larger bobbin. There are scientific reasons for this, but all of that doesn't matter to the person that is struggling day in and day out with tension issues.

Having said all that, I've been having some tension issues of my own lately. :mad: Definitely NOT the norm. I put in a new bobbin case and am back to perfect tension. At a cost of only $10, it was a quick, easy fix when nothing else worked.

[Chocoholic]

About a year ago, I met someone who owned a longarm with the big bobbin and she teaches on it. She was mentioning that we would want our customers to have busy backs and to always use the same thread top and bottom. Well, no one told me that before I started quilting on my Milli, so of course, I didn't do either one. My second customer quilt had a light back and a dark top. So I used thread accordingly. The back was a very pretty fabric (toile) and I didn't want the dark thread to interfere with the design.

I brought that quilt for a show and tell and I gotta say, she was extremely shocked that I had no tension issues, with the very light colored back and the two very different colors of threads. She was asking me all sorts of stuff to try to figure out how I managed to get it to look so good. I found it kind of funny that someone who had been quilting on a longarm for customers for 20+ years was amazed at what I had done on my second customer quilt!!

I agree with Darlene since then, I have noticed that most of the people that say that they must use the same color thread front and back and also want busy backs, have machines with the larger bobbins.

But I also have to agree with Robin, because I know some quilters who have machines with the large bobbins that have great stitches and great tension.