Tearing my hair out...

[Ferret]

I am in need of some advice from the more experienced quilters out here before I go crazy.

When the customer first contacted me I was concerned about the design choice, I didn't feel the quilting she wanted would complement the top, after some discussion she came up with an idea which although I wouldn't normally put it on this quilt top, it isn't dreadful, so I agreed to do it.

There were several more calls about the size of wadding and backing needed, do I really need them to be bigger than the top? In fact I get this question a lot, is that normal? As I do need the wadding to be bigger than the top I sourced one for her and prewashed it.

When the quilt arrived it came with threads. I normally supply the thread, but sometimes I get a customer who wants me to use theirs, and that is often where the trouble starts. This time is no exception, I am finding it very difficult to get a good stitch and not break the top thread.

My feeling at this point, slightly over half way through the quilt, is that I shouldn't have taken on this job with these issues, but how do I explain that to a customer?

How do you deal with a quilting pattern that you don't feel flatterns the top? Do you point it out then do it anyway or pass and let someone else take the job?

How do you deal with customers supplying threads that don't run well on these machines? The thread I supply works, and as most of it is Superior threads iif there is a problem I can get the cone replaced. I know my machine doesn't like small spools, something about how the thread feeds off them really upsets it, but that is what customers give me.

Any suggestions on how to explain to non-longarm quilters why I need extra backing and wadding? Although even by hand surely you need the to be at least as big as the top?

I guess I should get back to this monster and see if I can finish it now I have bought some more thread to match the bobbin thread supplied, which of course cost more than I normally pay for all the thread in a quilt. Should I bill for that or swallow it as I normally supply the threads?

Hope this makes some sense, I am feeling quite confused at the moment.

Ferret

[Ferret]

Whups, I have just re-read it for a third time and spotted a bit that doesn\'t read how I meant it

"My feeling at this point, slightly over half way through the quilt, is that I shouldn\'t have taken on this job with these issues, but how do I explain that to a customer?"

I mean in future how do I tell a customer I don\'t think this is a job for me, not tell this one that. This quilt will be finished come what may. I find it hard to keep saying no when people are obviously trying to make things good enough that I will say yes. It would have been easier if I she hadn\'t already asked how long my waiting list is, but without that to fall back on what can I say?

Ferret

[dtreusch]

Tough issues and I\'ve seen all three of them in the last 2 years. Here\'s how I\'ve dealt with them:

As far as design issues, the customer is always right. If I think the design the customer wants won\'t work, I tell them why and offer some alternative, but they still make the ultimate decision. Sometimes they take my suggestion, sometimes they don\'t. In any case, I haven\'t had any yet that I thought the design was so bad I wouldn\'t quilt it.

As far as thread that a customer supplies, I did that once. Needless to say, the customer did not supply enough thread and I had to make an emergency trip to pick up more of the same thread she bought. Since then, I never take any thread that a customer supplies and I let them know up front. If they bring thread or ask about it, I offer them a choice of a similar thread that I have or can order from Superior threads. In one instance, the customer had bought the thread and she didn\'t want to pay again. We agreed that I would use my thread then I would keep what she bought to use for piecing.

As far as batting and backing, that\'s really tough. I\'ve got most of my customers trained to provide 3-4" extra all the way around. However, I still get some that are an inch or less. :mad: When this happens, I call the customer and explain that I could possibly run out of batting or backing. I usually suggest that they let me use my batting and then put some muslin strips around the backing. Not everyone wants to do this though. I had one recently that the customer wanted to go ahead and quilt until it ran out. Kinda scary, but I did it anyway. It was a quilt for a friend of hers with cancer and she wanted to get the quilt to her ASAP. She said if it ran short, then she would just trim off the unquilted portion. Well, I did run short by about 2 inches. Had the quilt been for a show or if I knew the quilt was going to be in public view, I would not have quilted it as she wanted and just let the backing run out.

Debbi

[jkerekes]

This is your business---you make the decisions.

Only use your thread. Period. If they need a certain color or specialty thread, you can be \'in charge\' of finding it based on your machine requirements ---and then charge them for it.

You need the backing and batting a certain size, period.

If you do not want to quilt a quilt a certain way based on your own personal experience and eye-don\'t.

Have a nice little pamphlet, flier, etc. that explains this--with prices --and make sure that your future/current customer has this pamphlet.

I just had a pontential new customer call and ask me questions and then compare the answers to her previous experience with another quilter. She didn\'t like all my answers, but did book a spot with me. She is used to pantographs--I do freehand work. Period. My business, my choice. She wants it done by Christmas--nope, I need to have a Christmas too! I\'m accepting appointments for late January. If that doesn\'t work, call somebody else.

If people don\'t like it, they can call somebody else. Your work is fabulous--if you make up your \'rules\' that is just how is has to be.

It gets easier once you have a firm definition of what you require from your customer AND what you are willing to give. If you are wishy-washy, they will be wishy-washy too. You will end up being annoyed all the time if you don\'t set up your boundaries.

I actually have learned this by being a parent:)! I have 4 kids, aged 3 1/2 to 9, and if I am wishy-washy or chaotic, so are they. If I make rules and stick to them, life is so much better! If I allowed them to dictate meals and bedtimes, we would have total chaos---customers can be like that too!

Good luck and God Bless You!

Jill Kerekes

[seakitten]

I am pretty new at this, but I think we should never use thread supplied by the customer; you just don\'t know where it\'s been! I solve this by including the thread in the price, & giving the customer a narrow range of color choices. I know in some states there is a tax advantage to selling the thread separately, which would make this a less desirable solution for some. As for the need for extra batt & backing, the answer is "because that\'s the way the machine works" (dangerously close to "because I\'m the Mom", I know). As for quilting design, after you have given your opinion, it is the customer\'s call & I would just live with it. Hope you enjoy your next project more.

[Mary Beth]

I just recently had a new customer call me and since I could tell she had a little memory problem going on, I told her I would come to her house to give her a quote on the quilt. While I was there, I told her there is a $4.00 charge for thread and she told me that she bought thread. I told her that I didn\'t realize any stores in our area carried thread for a longarm and she told me she purchased it at Joann\'s. I knew she was talking about serger thread, so I told her that it just doesn\'t work in our machines because of the speed, etc. Now, I know some of you just came unglued and are typing already. I know some people use that thread and it works for them. I am not going to take that chance on a customer quilt. I don\'t need the problems. I want to get in and get it done. So I advised her to take her thread back and I would use mine, and she agreed to do that. I have had another customer bring me 10 spools of Wal-Mart brand thread - no way!! Sent it right back home with her. If they don\'t want to play my way, they can take their business to someone else. I just need things to run smoothly.

[veg-girl]

Well, you know what they say -the customer is always right ( maybe misguided but always right!)

If you were having a piece of furniture made you wouldn\'t give the joiner the screws and nails so why should the customer give you the thread?

As for backing and wadding being larger, this is always necessary whether you are hand quilting or machine quilting on a DSM otherwise it is almost impossible to layer, I try to tell students to allow 6" all round as there is no guarantee that the fabric is cut square and when layering on a table it is easy to get things slightly crooked so that by the end of the process (particularly on a large quilt) what started out as a small error has become much larger and suddenly the backing is too small. Perhaps these quilters have never layered and quilted their own quilts before.

As to design choice for quilting, well you can only give them the benefit of your experience and expertise, if they don\'t take it well more fool them but it does make your life more miserable having to work on something you hate. All this applies whether your\'e longarming or on a DSM. I have had similar issues with customers before, the answer does depend to a certain extent on whether or not you have luxury of being able to turn business away .

AArgh! My cat has just discovered his new hammock, fortunately its only a practise piece but it has stretched horribly in just 2 minutes (he is big).

Best of luck

[barbm]

Before I started doing this as a business, I surfed the web and gathered all the info I could about how to interface with customers. I prepared "Quilt Preparation Guidelines," which I give to all customers, so that they know just what to expect from me, and what I expect from them. So far, I haven\'t had any problems with customers, but I\'m just a newbie, so I\'m sure my time is coming!

[quiltmonkey]

Hi Ferret, please don\'t pull out your beautiful long brown hair!!

Wow you have recieved some awesome advice here. I love this forum!

I haven\'t had many quilting customers (yet) but I have been a customer for longarm services. That said, if I were to bump into a problem as you have with a customer, I would put myself in their shoes and speak with them in a courteous, friendly way and explain your perspective. You are the PROFESSIONAL QUILTER and as such, you have professional advice and knowledge. They are paying you to be the professional and provide assistance. Give them ideas and options and choices and let them make the final decision on the design. I am sure there are many longarmers who have quilted some not-so-fabulous quilts but hey, that\'s what the customer wanted.

That said, some things are non-negotiable when it come so what you require. If the customer wants to provide thread, great! But, it has to meet your requirements (brand, etc.) if the customer wants to provide wadding, great! But it has to meet your requirements (size and brands). I am sure they will understand the difficulties you face if you are working with inferior thread and not enough wadding. They just need to be educated. I think if we talk to our customers in an honest, kind way then absolutely they will be gratful for the information. Many people are just ignorant and need to be educated on the dos and don\'ts.

Bottom line is your time is money. You can\'t afford to waste your valuable time fussing with cheap thread or cheap/small batting that just does not work for the job.

(I was once ignorant but now I am educated...)

[Merryjo2003]

I have mixed feelings on the issue. Yes, the customer is right. I tell them it\'s their quilt and I want them to enjoy it. If they insist on a certain pattern, I try to let them know why I think it won\'t do justice to the quilt and give them alternatives. I also think that every quilt I do is a reflection of my business. So far, I haven\'t had to turn one away because someone picked something so icky I wouldn\'t quilt it. A lot of business is referral and I don\'t want something BUTT UGLY out there with my name on it!

As for thread, I only have one customer I allow to bring me her thread. I\'m a thread junkie and have thread charts and tons of Superior threads to pick from. I haven\'t had the pleasure of having someone give me serger thread yet (and hope I never do). I include solid color thread in the quilting price. I have an additional charge for varigated or specialty threads as they usually are twice the price of the solids. I just tell them my machine is picky about which threads I use and that certain threads make it skip stitches or something to that affect.

[barbm]

Here\'s the "Quilt Prep Guidelines" I cribbed off everyone else\'s websites:

http://tmequilting.com/photos/quiltprep.pdf

Isn\'t the internet wonderful???

If you want to use any or all of it, be my guest.

[Ferret]

Thanks guys for the advice and support. If sounds like I am being completely reasonable if I dig my heels in and refuse to use other peoples thread. For some reason customers seem to have a problem with that even though I don\'t charge for thread, it is included in my price! Why people feel they must spend more is beyond me.

The guidelines are very similar to what I already hand out, some people even read them before arguing about it. I just don\'t get it. They are paying me to do a job which I assume they think I can do (other wise they would pick someone else right?) but then they try to tell me how to do it.

Humans they are all mad.

Thanks again

Ferrret

[jkerekes]

Yes--humans are all mad!

Quilters can be an interesting bunch. I have a lady coming today to drop off a beautiful queen sized Double Irish Chain quilt. She was here about a month and a half ago and nearly dropped to the floor when we discussed pricing. She said, "Oh my God I had no idea that it would cost so much to have a quilt quilted! She left and said that she was going to try to hand quilt it because she thought the price was way too high. Not a problem with me:), but she did e-mail back not too long afterward and asked for her spot back.

Now--she was talking about my meandering price at $.015 per square inch. This is beautiful, traditional quilt that would look stunning with traditional feathers and feathered wreaths. The price for that was double the meandering price--which, we all know, is way, way more than double the work. Her response was "I don\'t want nice quilting because it will take away from the beauty of the fabric." Hmmmmm--then why make a quilt that has a bunch of WHITE space screaming for a big, fat quilted something? Hmmmm.....

there are only two fabrics in the quilt, Hmmmmmmm.........

Her body language suggests no budging. Fine. A meander will look fine, but feathers and wreaths would look spectacular. By the way----she drives a new Lexus and has more bling on her left hand than I\'ve seen in real life!

Yes---people are interesting........

Jill Kerekes

[Hawaii]

Just a side note.

I got a chance to meet Barb Mayfield at our APQS dinner at Innovations. (Thank you, Barb,for the zip lock bag for traveling!).

She is an amazingly organized woman with a graphic arts backround - her longarm promotional flyer is wonderful and it covers all the bases.

Although, I am not yet brave enough to take in customer quilts, I am going to save your helpful list, Barb. Thank you for sharing!

Hawaii Barbara

[barbm]

Awww, Barbara - I\'m blushing!! Actually, having a background in desktop publishing and print layout has helped me look very professional as I learn my new craft. I\'m hoping my quilting skills will someday catch up with my layout "blarney"!

Glad you\'re having a good time, Hawaii Barb!

[seakitten]

Thanks so much, Barb, for being so generous to share your checklist. It really clears things up.

That lady Jill mentioned could have been me a few years ago, the first time I took my quilt to a longarmer. Afraid to spend money with no assurance of what the outcome would be, & a bit afraid some stranger would mess up my work. Now I know better, & I also know that, in the long run, only other quilters will pay what the quilting is worth, because they understand what goes into it. I also know that once you have done a good job for someone, they will be glad to pay a fair price, and will likely be repeat customers, and friends. The nice ones, that is; we know there are weirdos everywhere, even (gasp!) among quilters. Enjoy your day.

[sewlinzi]

Great advice on how to deal with customers, everyone - thank you. I think we Brits are particularly poor at being assertive! I\'m doing a quilt this week which is not pleasing me... it\'s for a quilt teacher and she is quite a bit senior to me... says she will recommend me to others if I do the job for a "good price" ( I can hear you all screaming at me from across the ocean!) -should have said I would not use her thread which has run out half way so I\'m continuing with mine and you can\'t tell! It was a quilt as u go so that\'s a bit odd and my stitching as instructed is covering up some nice embroidery stitches. She wants it to shrink in the wash and requested very geometric stuff but I want to do curves and wiggles! It\'s tricky when it\'s all new and you are anxious to please. Hey-ho - it\'ll be OK when it\'s done BUT I have made a note to myself about using a more subtle thread next time and being more persuasive on the type of quilting. Pricing is the worst bit - there is no "going rate" - everyone\'s very secretive about pricing over here in UK and up here in Scotland some folk really hate parting with their dosh!

[ramona-quilter]

Ferret,

You really hit a strong chord with your post. Lots of good advice. It seems to me that you did everything to sway your customer in the design decision. It is ultimately up to the owner. We all have different tastes. Well, some folks don\'t seem to have any taste, but that is neither here nor there.

I agree with the thread majority. I have thread, lots of it and all for longarm (high-speed) machines; it is in a climate-controlled room. I keep it out of sunlight and bagged to prevent dust. When I first started, I came up with rules (a living document) based on bad experiences with quilts I got from cusotmers. I use only my thread. It is my machine and I get to choose what goes on it. I do not accept pieced batting. Like MerryJo, I don\'t want my name associated with a bad quilt job because inferior (thread or batting/wadding) were used.

Now about that extra batting and backing. I have had some that were short on both backing and batting and they are pretty hard to control; you can\'t stitch all the way out to the end because of your clamps.

A funny story:

I finished a quilt just in time to take it to one of my classmates at the night quilting class at the high school. Lots of rookies in this class, most have never even seen a longarm. I had not trimmed the quilt or removed the basting at the top (full float). The quilt margin on the left side still had a piece of batting and a scrap piece of icky green fabric on it where I had quilted to check my tension before I moved the needle over to the quilt. I call it my "scratch pad". I usually remove it. My customer just had to "share" her new quilt, batting hanging down, basting still in and scratch pad still stuck on

the side. There were oohs and ahhs as well as a couple of odd looks. One lady asked "What is that booger-thang hanging on the side of the quilt?" After we finished laughing, I explained what is was and that it was used to test the tension. I told them that I prefer to test the tension and tighten/loosen it, if necessary, on the side before I start quilting. There were still a couple of confused faces so I asked them if it would be ok if I practiced on their quilts. That connected the dots for them.

[jeri]

I do not accept threads from customers unless they are the ones that I would normally use. I simply explain to them that my machine will accept certain threads and theirs won\'t work. I did one quilt about year into quilting with Valdani that a customer provided and it was a struggle as it broke every few inches no matter what I did. Decided then and there never again. I tell them I will match the color as closely as I can to one that is compatable with my machine.

Haven\'t had a problem since.

I have gotten to where if I have suggested an alternate design for a quilt and my customer wants to stick with the one she picked out I doit for her and don\'t worry about it. I do put on my invoice a comment about what I have suggested or tha the pattern was a customer request. You can always add a disclaimer.

Pricing is a headache here also (grins) jeri

[AnnHenry]

Dear Ferret,

I don\'t know if, way overseas, you are familiar with "our" Dr. Phil, a TV psychologist who dispenses profound advice on a multitude of problems of daily life. I never cease to be amazed at what I learn from him. One of his \'profundities\' is "You teach people how to treat you". Are you teaching your customers that they can make the decisions about how you run your business?

You\'re the boss. Be bossy.