Value of machine quilting

[SquareOne]

I am VERY new to this site, but not new to quilting. Currently I have a Husqvarna Viking Megaquilter, which is probably the closest I can get to a longarm and still be considered a "personal machine".

For a long time I have been thinking about purchasing a longarm, specifically from APQS.

Of course the pricetag makes me blink twice, but I'm pretty sure I could make up the costs over time by going into business quilting other people's quilt tops.

My question to all is -

Doesn't longarm quilting (especially if you use a stitch regulator and/or a PC component) sort of "cheat" when it comes to making an heirloom quilt? I love the look and perfection the APQS systems can produce. But some quilt shows don't allow entries that have been quilting on these types of machines because there is much less "human" involvement.

Do you agree?

Have any of you felt that your quilts and/or fabric art is not as well respected when you use these systems? Have any of you experienced having a quilt rejected on grounds that you used a stitch regulator?

Just wondering. I love making my own art quilts, so I don't want to spend forever ONLY finishing other people's quilt tops. Also, I don't want to get in my own way when making such a big decision.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

~Kate

[Grammie]

Hi Kate and welcome to the chat. I'm Grammie Tammie and I own an APQS Milli and Compuquilter computerized system.

I'm not sure if I'm cheating. That is a personal opinion but I am having the time of my life with the system. I was machine quilting on domestic for a long time. I love my APQS. My creativity has sored since I purchased it. I don't use my Compuquilter for everything I do. It is just a tool that affords me the opportunity to quilt designs I might not otherwise be able to quilt in a timely manner if I tried to do it with stencils. I do quilt for others and my time is money. My customers love all the wonderful surprises they get from my CQ system. With that being said I still do alot of freehand for my customers as well. This is just another service I can offer my customers. I wouldn't call myself an artist but I sometimes feel like one with my APQS. It is so fun to use this machine.

As far as shows I say let the cards fall where they may. If it's beautiful no one will be able to deny it whether it wins or not. Many now have Computerized quilting catagories as well as others. Many of the most recent winners in some of the biggest competitions have a stitch regulator on their machines and some do not. Technology is always going to advance and the tools to achieve certain techniques will get better. That's the fun in it. Remember that the same thing was said about the Microwave, dishwasher, Embroidery machines and so on. I don't think using these things make you a cheater just faster and sometimes PERFECT.

The tools are only as good as the person using them.

Good luck to you. I hope you get lots of comments on this. Visit more often and use search for issures that interest you. Lots of info here.

[SquareOne]

Thanks Grammie!

If you don't mind telling me, how long did it take you to pay off your machine? Or if it's not paid off yet, how long do you expect it to take & how much time do you devote to quilting for other people?

Thanks again for your insights.

Kate

[mountainmanda]

at the rate that my mother-in-law (Grammie) is going, her machine will be paid off TOMORROW! lololol

actually don't let her try and fool you she is doing rather well and I can only hope to be as good as she is with her machine. She is a pretty cool grandma to my brats and a great friend to me, as well.

Best of luck to you!

[9patch]

Kate,

You must have noticed how much quilting has shifted, over the last 5 or so years, to machine quilting. I have...even in my neck of the woods, where machine quilting is considered cheating (sort of)! The Hershey show had a category for machine quilting, and the entries were spectacular. At the Lancaster show, at least half of the quilt entries are machine quilted. Even the local agricultural fairs have categories for machine quilting. There is no distinction for stitch-regulated or not. Machine quilting is machine quilting, at least in my experience. I have never been to show that didn't have at least one example/entry that was machine quilted.

I go to local quilt auctions, and machine quilted pieces are not well received. I have yet to see a good, let alone great, example of a machine quilting, so it is hard to say how that would sell.

I am the first to drool over wonderful hand-quilting. I'm just not going to ever be able to finish enough quilts that way!!!!

Believe me, once you have worked with a long-arm, you will come to appreciate the art and the talent of those who create the masterpieces that you have seen. It ain't easy!

[SquareOne]

you're right Linda. Times change. And it has been considered "cheating" when the sewing machine was invented, then along comes the emboidery machine, and photo transfer... and lately I have seen people selling so-called "Art Quilts" that are no more than a piece of wholecloth that's printed with an image the person created on their home computer!

I admit, that one make me feel a tiny bit cheated.

I suppose it's not all that different than the old time artists who mixed their own paints to modern painters who buy tubes of paint at Blick's art supply.

It all depends on how you use the tools you have, and what is the end result.

Thanks for your insight!

[Myrna Ficken]

WAY TO GO TAMMIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:P:P

[TishMarshall]

Diddo Myrna.

I think having a longarm just makes quillting easier to do. I've quilted a few queen size and one King size on my DS. Never again, especially if you have any ailments of the upper body.

I love my Greenie and plan on paying it off within 2 years. And I'm looking forward to taking lots of classes and meeting all the great and creative people.

Best of luck!

Tish

[SquareOne]

Tish,

If you don't do any more queen or king size quilts, are you still going to be able to pay it off in 2 years? Will you advertize a size limit?

I'm asking because I'm trying to get an idea if it's worth it for me to buy a longarm.

Thanks!

[quiltmonkey]

Oh my... I absolutely adore....ADORE hand quilted quilts. It's hard to describe (but you all probably know and can appreicate what I'm trying to say)...there is just something so unique to them...they have the "human touch" about them. Know what I mean? When I see a quilt that is hand quilted, my heart just melts. The little hand needled stitches, with all of the imperfections that go with it, just make these quilts so sweet with so much personality. Now, I bow with the highest respect to anyone who hand quilts. I haven't had the experience (or time...or discipline) to make a hand quilt. Some day, I'm going to, though... even if it's a little baby quilt.

So, I can appreciate the lovely hand quilted quilts, and I can appreciate the lovely machine quilted quilts, too. They are all beautiful to me. Probably because they all have one thing in common...they are all made with love. The process in which it's made is not important, but rather that it was made in the first place. That's all that matters. Treasures made of fabric to squeeze and cuddle and pass along to love forever.

Shana

[ILOVEGEORGE]

Hello SquareOne,

Have you ever thought of buying an APQS "George" machine ?

For me it was half the price of a Millie, small enough to pop into my sewing room ( a spare bedroom ) and very easy to use.

It does not have a stitch regulator, but it does have a speed regulator, which might give your quilts the unique hand quilted look that you speak about....I adore my George !

Happy researching !

Chantell in Australia

[quilterscafe]

I was just reading through all these posts and thought I'd chime in. This is a really interesting debate on whether machine made quilts are "cheater" quilts. I totally agree that machine made quilts require ALOT of skill and talent. Sometimes I think how much easier it would be to have the control to create one stitch at a time, each one perfectly! I also think sometimes that our quilting ancestors would probably have made the choice to use a long arm if they had one in their day, given a choice. We have the luxury of being able to do both! Why not? I think that as more machine quilts are entered and win in quilt shows, the more they will be accepted on their own terms.

In terms of whether to use a long arm or not, when you are comparing a DSM vs. a mid-arm vs. a long arm etc. etc. I think the more you get to know what those machines allow you to do, and as you think about what you really want to do in quilting, you'll be able to zero in on the right choice for you. One day you might come to feel that you might want a longer throat space that a true long arm can provide, or, perhaps you feel that what you have is just enough for the types of quilts you like to make.

Kathy

[SquareOne]

Thanks Kathy!

Ok, this might sound dumb, but I'm not that familiar with posts etc. I've seen some abbreviations & kind of assume that I know what most of them mean.

But what are DS and DSM?

Sorry if I've revealed my ignorance...

Kate

[Bonnie]

There is no stupid question? ....however you must get a stupid answer.

DS....Domestic Sewing

DSM...Domestic Sewing Machine

[gardenslug]

Find this topic interesting. Have a friend who thinks machine quilted quilts are not "pure" To be an heirloom, they must be made using past methods; that is, hand qulting. However, her heirloom quilts are machine pieced. She does not piece them by hand. But (and this is difficult), I just bitte my tongue and smile. Not clever enough to make an heirloom quilt, but surely do enjoy all of the masterpieces I see on this site. First thing I do everyday is check to see the new quilts that have been posted. They are so beautiful and give me much pleasure just seeing them.

Marilyn

[jkerekes]

This is an interesting topic! I have to say that I've become very biased toward machine quilting, for obvious reasons;).

There is enough room is the vast world of quilting for all types and preferences. That is one of the things that makes this great! I have noticed that many long arm quilters really make an effort to enhance the attributes of the quilted top with quilting. By using thread, quilting density, etc. a longarm quilter can really enhance a so-so quilt top. That being said, a long arm quilter can do a lot of ho-hum quilting. Sometimes ho-hum is requested by the topper:)!

I know that my approach to quilt creation has changed immensely since the purchase of my longarm because I can really plan from the start how I'm going to use quilting to 'complete' my vision. I've developed a feel for many quilt attributes that I never would have been aware of without my longarm. I've met so many "toppers" that don't even consider HOW to quilt the quilt, but are concerned only about the price. They are almost always stunned at how great their tops can become with a little creative thought.

I had a lady call the other day to set up an appointment and was floored because I asked her if she had considered HOW she wanted her quilt to be quilted. She replied with " Don't you just have patterns that you follow?" I think I freaked her out a little when I told her I was a freehander:). We'll see what happens!

I'm not sure about 'purity' because I don't understand it. I have seen fabulous hand quilted quilts and fabulous machine quilted quilts and I have developed an appreciation for both. I happen to really like quilts with some zip and pizzaz and I never really see much of that in hand quilting. But that is OK! I know that the quilting bee is not for me, but I do appreciate the work that is done.

If machine quilting appeals to you--go for it.

Jill Kerekes

[TishMarshall]

I will never quilt another king or queen on my DSM that is.

I do them on my Greenie now.

Sorry for posting so late, just noticed the reply!

Tish

Originally posted by SquareOne

Tish,

If you don't do any more queen or king size quilts, are you still going to be able to pay it off in 2 years? Will you advertize a size limit?

I'm asking because I'm trying to get an idea if it's worth it for me to buy a longarm.

Thanks!

[annlittle1]

Its funny how we always think that the "old ways" must be the best way.

Pampers were brand new when my first baby was born. I remember my MIL (my well loved MIL) saying, "I wouldn't put those paper diapers on my baby. Think how they must irritate the skin." Believing that my MIL must know what she was talking about (she had six children), I bought cloth diapers and rubber pants to cover them. I washed two dozen diapers a day. Each load went through a wash with bleach and a second wash without bleach, but with fabric softener, per MIL's instructions. I still fought diaper rash like crazy with my first two children. Three years later I had three children and I was washing six dozen diapers everyday, still doing the bleach load and then the softener load, when we were transferred across country. I used Pampers on the trip. My children had no diaper rash. We didn't have leaky diapers or a stinky diaper pail to deal with. Best of all, I didn't have to wash those six dozen diapers everyday! I never went back to cloth diapers. My two daughters never gave it a thought that they would use Pampers on their babies. They can't imagine washing and folding diapers everyday. They do have cloth diapers, but they call them "burp cloths". My grandbabies have never been stuck with a diaper pin either.

So back to the quilts. My point is, why should we insist on handquilting, when we can machine quilt them in a few hours. Why shouldn't quilting progress just as housekeepping and motherhood have progressed. Machine quilting seems to be very acceptable in quilt shows. I don't know how anyone could look at the work of a Sherry Rogers-Harrison, Dawn Cavanaugh, Nichole Webb, Jamie Wallen and many other well know machine quilters and say that the quilt isn't as beautiful or valuable as one that was handquilted.

There will always be a place for handquilting. Handquilting, like embroidery, knitting, crocheting and other needlework will always be soothing to the soul and thus will continue to be valued. Machine quilting is not cheating, but is a progressive form of quilting that I believe will soon be the norm rather than handquilting.

I do believe that handquilting should not be judged against machine quilting. The quilt shows that I have been to have separated the quilts into two categories.

I guarantee that if our grandmothers had access to a machine that quilted a hundred years ago they would have used it. Along with dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, dryers and all those other modern conveniences that we take for granted.

Phyllis Hughes

Oklahoma City

[chuckster46]

I find this discussion so interesting mostly because I am in awe of all of the talent that is out in the world involved with the medium of fabric. One of the definitions of medium is; an intervening substance, as air, through which a force acts, another; the material or technique with which an artist works. Hand quilting is a very wonderful technique for applying the force of creativity to fabric, possibly the oldest technique, but not the only technique. Machine quilting opens many possibilities for the artist to apply creative force to fabric in many ways that hand quilting cannot.

Machine quilting presents many challenges and opportunities. It is about art. I am not sure but I will bet that at some point in the distant past there were debates about the value of watercolors verses oil paints.

When I first purchased our APQS the first question I was asked by the owner of a fabric store was, ?Are you going to start a business?? I looked at her and thought about it and answered, ?No, I want to learn the art of machine quilting?. She looked at me and smiled and I had her respect. I think that we should all remember that this is an art form. It should be treated as an art form.

Unfortunately reality and cost creeps in and the discussion turns to can I afford it and how long will it take to pay for it. I lost some sleep thinking about this. My advice, get over it. If you want to expand your ability to work with the medium of fabric in ways that you can only imagine if you use a needle and thread buy the long arm machine and go for it. I am having the time of my life and I am just about at the start of the upward swing of the learning curve. I have some patrons. I like to call them patrons not customers, makes me feel like an artist. I make a little bit of money. It is going to take me a long time to pay for my machine. I am still having the time of my life.

[kennan100]

I totally agree with all of the above! I was a "handquilting machine"! As of last summer sometime I put my needle down for good. I still have a VERY small baby quilt to finish and haven't touched it for weeks and all I have to do is tie off the last border because I don't even have the inclination to do that much! My friends and family are worried about me, I've had a needle in my hand and a quilt on my lap for 23 years now and they are asking me if I'm having depression issues's! Nope, I'm just through trying to get what is in my head, onto a quilt using just my hands. Plus my hands are pretty much shot for hand quilting and waht is left of them I need to conserve as much as possible! Handquilting and machine quilting are the same art in a different application. To me it's like the difference between painting the picture with oil, or are you using watercolors....just my opinion!

[SandraC]

I love doing hand-work...my day always starts about an hour before everyone else is up and about, I sit with either some quilting or hand-applique and my coffee...I can't imagine not starting my day this way, I think it would throw a kink in my whole day if I couldn't. Before I got my longarm I would say I was definitely a hand-quilting snob!!!

Now, however, I've learned a lot of lessons. But one of the most heart-warming is the satisfaction of quilting for those who are unable to quilt anymore. I would say that half of my business is older women that can't quilt anymore...arthritis, back pain, eye problems, etc. To have the option of taking their work to a longarm quilter means they get to continue with their beloved hobby....and maybe it will mean less quilt tops left in cedar chests for their ancestors to discover! I'm sure that some of these women at some time in the past would have turned their noses up at the thought of machine quilting...but they have evolved their thinking and embrace it now.

I had a woman come to me last week, she had come across 3 hand-pieced quilts from the 60's done by her grandmother. Her memories of this woman are of her always having her bits of fabric with her to sew together wherever she went. She is SO excited at the thought of seeing them completed and I find it an honour to do them. It feels almost spiritual to me, as if I'm paying homage to this past quilter...to be able to complete what she started so her family may enjoy them. Now I'm feeling all tingly, silly, eh? The quilts are immaculate, no open seams, no musty smell, I can't wait to get at them. Maybe I've got off topic, but had to share

Have a good day.........Sandra

[countrystitcher]

I respect all quilting. I consider myself a tradionalist and continue doing hand quilting for myself and will probably always have a project going. It's my quiet time just before bed and it is portable for traveling and lunch time at work. I also enjoy doing machine quilting now and the freedom it gives to explore designs and threads. There is no right or wrong here; it's a personal preference. BUT when I'm not feeling well, I know I always reach for a couple of special hand-quilted quilts - something about them makes me feel better. Maybe I need a special healing hand on me from the quilter.

Sharon

[xtraquilts]

I wanted to get in my 2 cents worth here-I started machine quilting on my domestic machine in the early 80"s-and it was considered a real scandal! I've continued, then bought a Gammill in 1999 - no stitch regulator. I finally bought my Millenium last May and just love it. I got over the "cheatint" with this thought...How would you feel if every quilt HAD to be hand-pieced? How many quilts would we have today?

It is the same relationshipbetween hand vs machine vs stitch regulated machine work. Our sewing machines have regulated stitches-you can choose 2.5 or 3 etc. It's exactly the same with the stitch regulated longarm machines. It's so nice to choose when to use it or not. The end result is what really matters-beautiful work!

[CucumberQuilting]

All I can say about this subject is to go take a look at the recent $100,000 Quilting Challenge Winner: http://quiltingchallenge.com/

Machine quilted to the max and it was a hands down winning beauty! I took the issue Linda McCuean's entry was published in to my guild meeting and pointed out that not only was it machine quilted, she bought her fabric (not traditional quilter's cotton) at JoAnn's and used polyester thread. The winning quilt in this competition was decided by a combination of votes received from the team of professional judges and the number of votes received from the public.

So what can you say about that? A quilt's a quilt and a beauty will last forever. And hey, that $100K check will go a long way towards buying more fabric too!

[CucumberQuilting]

Continuing on: Out little itty bitty town now has four professional longarm quilters and our little Country Quilt Show (about 300 quilts displayed) had nearly 80% machine quilted quilts in it last year.

I LOVE the look and feel of a beautiful hand quilted quilt, there's really nothing like it. But I also LOVED the look and feel of me standing next to the Best of Show winner with a ribbon in my hand!!!

Have a great day at the machine! ~~ Eva H.