Dealing with "poor" customers

[AnnHenry]

I grew up poor.

I know how poor people think.

It has been my experience that people who truly are hurting for money don\'t announce it. In the first place they are embarrassed by the fact, and in the second place they know that their poverty is not a polite subject for conversation. If a price quoted for something is too high, they simply end the conversation.

It has been my further experience that the people who plead poor are not. I especially remember a situation in which a woman who wanted our services gave us this poverty story. We bought it hook, line, and sinker and gave her what she wanted at the price she wanted. Then come to find out that this poverty-stricken woman was sending her son to an expensive college. Then come to find out that this expensive college was in Europe!

[Guest Smile&nod]

I suppose that\'s one way a person can get rich...its to be a total cheapskate

I\'ve noticed that a lot too. Typical "squeaky wheel getting the grease" situations.

Think of it this way though...usually when the karma bus comes\'a\'callin\' for them, Mother Murphy will have also managed to cut the brake lines. Makes for a helluva ride hehehe

[AnnHenry]

I\'m a 100% believer in the "karma bus", although I hadn\'t heard that particular phrase before.

[Guest Smile&nod]

hehehe

If you are referring to "mother Murphy" its just a throwback to Murphy\'s Law..."if something can go wrong, it will."

Makes for some great karma though...especially if you are just watching from a distance and eating popcorn

[jkerekes]

I grew up in what would be considered a poor area, but we had a LOT, just not lots of money to throw around. We all worked hard and did almost everything ourselves. If we could not afford certain luxuries, we just didn\'t get them. It was not unusual to make your own prom dress and bake your own bread. We didn\'t expect people to lower their prices for us because we couldn\'t afford their stuff or services.

I think that having quilts machine quilted by someone is a luxury. I also think paying someone to mow your lawn, clean your house, paint your house, build an addition, shovel your driveway, etc. are also luxuries. If I can\'t afford those luxuries, I just don\'t have them in my life. If I really want these things, I figure out a way to have them by saving my pennies or learning how to do it myself. If you can\'t afford for me to quilt your quilts, then you can\'t afford it. There is no shame in that, it is what it is. It costs almost nothing to hand quilt your own quilt---some thread, a hoop, a few needles, etc. If that\'s what you need to do, then that\'s what you need to do. You can also machine quilt your own quilt. It won\'t be professionally done---but how many of us with longarm machines have quilted on our DSMs? Probably most of us.

I\'ve had very wealthy people try to nickel and dime me and I just don\'t deal with it anymore. If you want to argue with me about charging you so that I make a living wage---well then don\'t crash your Jaguar as you drive out of my driveway, and take your quilt top with you!

Sorry for the rant---I just would never try to weasel out of paying a skilled laborer for their services. If I can\'t afford their services, I don\'t expect them to perform them.

Jill Kerekes

[Merryjo2003]

I feel the same way. I grew up in a family of do-it-youselfers and it didn\'t hurt me any. I pay the bills, buy the necessities, and try to save some for a rainy day. If I can\'t afford something, I work extra hours until I can or I don\'t get it.

I would never think to ask someone to discount their prices because of my budget. It amazes me when someone tries to do that to me. My prices are fair. They still seem to want custom for a simple price. I give them suggestions in more simple designs and let them decide what their budget will be. I have one person saying it\'s way too expensive, and the next tells me the same thing is more than reasonable. So figure!

[sewingupastorm]

I have heard all those too.................."I can\'t afford custom quilting". Well then they can just do it themselves. I figure it is not just my time, years of practice, skill but also the fact that my longarm costs as much as a car! If they don\'t like the prices they can stuff it thru ther domestic................hey I have stuffed a queen sized quilt thru my domestic and it can be done.

[quiltmonkey]

ugh! I understand about the word poor but poor in America is not the same elsewhere in the world. Sure you might not have a lot of $$ and you are frugal and conservative because you have to be...that might be poor but when I think of poor, I think of somewhere outside of the states. For example, my friends who have done a lot of world traveling and visited parts of Asia and took the little bars of soaps from their hotel and handed them out to the people on the street who were begging to the rich Americans. These people who took these little bars of soap were literally crying because they were grateful and very thankful for these little bars of soap. Now, that is what I call poor. They probably live in a little shack and dirt floor, too, with 20 of their family members and many don\'t know where the next meal is coming from.

That said, someone who complains because custom quilting is too expensive...they are not poor, they are just being a whiner. LOL! That\'s when I wanna say "Now why is that stupid Kharma bus running late! I sure wish it would be on time for a change!"

Whenever I catch myself whining about an inconvenience, I really try to remind myself that I really have it pretty gosh darned good, considering other human beings in this world....

[Sandra Darlington]

Yep, I agree with all of you. And...Smile&nod I love how you said it! (I\'m still chuckling about Mother Murphy - I will be using that line:)

Growing up, my mother stayed at home and my father went out to work. We were always happy. We always had everything we needed-food, clothes, shelter. We didn\'t have lots of extras, and we didn\'t ask for a lot of things, either. I always felt content with what I had...necessities, a few extras and lots of love from my family.

I know lots of my classmates went shopping for their new back to school clothes, and my mother and I went shopping for my back to school fabric and patterns. I never went to a dance only to discover someone was wearing the exact same dress I was wearing. That would have been nearly impossible, as mine were all "custom" made, by dear Mom.

I guess I had it pretty good.

[jkerekes]

Shana,

You\'re right--most of us don\'t know what poor is! My father spent a year working in Haiti 8-9 years ago. The stories he told us were gut wrenching. He was working for the UN as a CIVPOL(policemen from different parts of the world trying to teach Haitian policemen how to be policemen, Dad speaks French and is a retired Maine State Trooper). He always had a survival pack with him that contained stuff like raisins, peanut butter and crackers, bottled water, etc. Every once in a while he would give out some crackers or something to a starving toddler on the side of the road. It broke his heart to see all the extreme poverty and lack of everything. Haiti is considered to be in the Third World--and it is soooo close to the US that it is gross. The thing is, the government is so corrupt that any money given to the country gets into the hands of the corrupt. The best way to give these people anything is through any churches or missionaries. Giving money to the government is pointless.

My father was pretty humble before he went to Haiti. He\'d been in the military and the trooper for many years. He grew up the oldest son on a farm and I don\'t think there was ever a day in his life where he didn\'t work hard. He was never a complainer to begin with---but you will never, ever hear a word of complaint from him about anything now. That experience was life changing for him.

We all need to count our blessings once in a while!

Jill Kerekes

[Pam.Nagle]

I agree. I was in the Navy and spent time overseas in places that most people would not understand or would never see. I grew up in a Navy family. We didn\'t have much money, we did it ourselves or didn\'t have it. My Dad was a farmer before and my Mom was lucky enough to be able to stay at home with us (all five). But, I tell you what, I really appreciate fresh vegies, safe meat and cold milk and even clean water to drink. A lot of people (even here in the US) don\'t have that. I remember coming home from deployment once and going to Denny\'s and ordering the largest glass of milk and just chugging it--because I hadn\'t had milk in six months. My parents taught us a good work ethic. Nothing was handed out. We earned it. Just my 2 cents. I don\'t like people that do that--cry poor and want you to compromise.

[kreacher]

Regarding the poverty pleading people and other observations.

True about the poverty pleaders. It is usually artificial whining.

Also, the mechanic who say\'s he is a good mechanic is usually a moron.

The bragging plumber doesn\'t realize which way the "----" flows.

It also makes you wonder about the quilter who knows all. Do they?

Those who wear religion as a badge to prove they are wonderful, often are not.

And those who are publicly against the lifestyle of another often seem atleast infatuated with that lifestyle.

Any others?

[chickenscratch]

Shana,

You are right, of course; but we do have those very poor people here as well. I know because I teach some of their kids.

We had a kid last year whose family did not have running water in their house because they couldn\'t afford it; and they didn\'t have heat because they couldn\'t afford to pay the gas bill. I think there were some times that their electricity was off also. We just tried to give that kid a stable environment at school; and allowed him to clean himself up and change into clean clothes at the school so the other kids didn\'t tease him about smelling bad.

Most of the people who have called me about quilting claim to be too poor to pay, but they drive up in nice cars or have their nails done, or wear very nice clothes. I notice those things, because I can\'t afford those things.

Sometimes I wonder what they think when they pull into our yard and see our little house and our 20 year old cars.

[lizziesgirl]

It amazes me what some consider poor in their minds. I never considered myself poor. I don\'t have money to spend on frivolous things, if I can\'t make money off of it and its not a necessity I don\'t buy it. I am a very proud person and wouldn\'t beg or ask for favors, never thought I would be in a position that I would need to do that. Well, when Daniel started having seizures and rushed to the ER and they were talking U of M neurology, I knew I couldn\'t do this on my own. We own our own business and that is our soul income, medical insurance was way out of our budget, food was more important. So I had to swallow my pride and go ask for help. I thought I would pass out. I\'m striving to get to a point where I can afford food and medical insurance but until then I work as hard as I can.

[JoAnnHoffman]

As long as you gave from the heart that\'s all that matters.

Maybe her son has money from the father? Maybe her son has a wealthy wife? Maybe her son has a scholarship.

It doesn\'t really matter as long as you think you did the right thing at the time.

My boyfriend in high school got a scholarship to USC worked two jobs and became head of Paramount Pictures. His family of five lived in a run down two bedroom apartment. His parents were ill and unable to work. I remember sticking tin foil in the broken string of Christmas lights to try and make them work. You just never know the whole story untill you walk in their shoes.

[quiltaholi_518]

Boy, I had one like that too. I fell for a story about how this lady couldn\'t afford much, but she just had to have a machine embroidered name (yes I do that too) on a Chistmas stocking for a grandchild. She had done beautiful cross-stitch on it. An then she needed the stocking "put together" because she didn\'t sew. I met her at the LQS on my suggestion, as I had to be there for an open house and never saw the horse she rode in on. So I spent most of a day on this thing and charged her $20. When she picked it up at my house can you imagine what she was driving???

A fairly new MERCEDES!!!! My DH was home from lunch and when she left he said it was about a $80K car!!! I also heard after the fact from one of the ladies in the quilt shop that she lives in a very exclusive area, no homes less that $500K. I don\'t think I have to walk in her shoes to know that they are PRADAS!!!!!

THAT will never happen again, I can guarantee.........

[ncutt]

Kinda reminds me of my SIL, who was complaining about a dentist bill and how she couldn;t afford it . Was going to tell the dentist he was going to have to take payments, (which he does anyway) because she was not rich. I looked at her and told her, "Well, don\'t park your brand new Dodge Pick Up in his parking lot when you do!"

What I did a few years back, and maybe I should start again. Evey year I would pick a person I knew needed a little "help". And I would either send gifts or give money through my church and have them send it to them. They never knew who I was. That was my charitable contribution for the year, besides church tithes and ALL the money went to the person not the management. And the next year I would pick someone new.

So, thanks! Think I\'ll get on the ball for next year!

[Ferret]

Yes I have my share of poor customers, and students. Those with two or more homes in multiple countries and struggle to work out where to go on holiday haveing been \'everywhere\' don\'t get much sympathy. I guess being frugal is the way to great wealth, but not at my expense thank you. However I know I have a few who really don\'t have a lot, and none of them has ever suggested that I charge too much.

I have also met a lot of people with very little, who have been the kindest most generous people around. A homeless friend once leant me money, she was proud to be able to and I was so grateful for it at the time. Without her small loan my home would have been at risk (yes she had been offered a place to stay many times but wouldn\'t take it). It also seems that those who have survived on very little are generally much happier with what they do have and far more likely to take a chance on improving the quality of their life if not their income. I wouldn\'t swap that freedom for the money especially if you have to be miserly to get it. Life\'s too short, I\'d rather enjoy it.

Norma, I love your idea of sending money directly to someone you know really needs it and will do something good with it. I love that you have found a way to get it to them without them knowing where it came from too.

I don\'t know if you have it in the US but over here we have things called good gifts. Rather than buying presents people don\'t want you buy something that goes to someone who needs it and your recipient gets a card telling them about it. Last year I was given a goat and a sheep, I can\'t remember where the animals were sent but I love the idea that I didn\'t get a piece of junk and someone now has a hope of a future.

http://goodgifts.org/about_us

I am sure there must be more things like this out there, but this is the one I have used.

Ferret

[kathyb]

I really enjoyed reading all this. I came from a single mother who worked two jobs to get us 3 kids thru. I had no idea we were poor.

I loved what Norma and Ferret had to say about gifts. Those are really wonderful ideas.

Merry Christmas!

[juliagraves]

I went on a mission trip to Mexico and was blown away by the poverty. The pastor we were helping lived in a one room house with no bathroom. His 7 year old daughter slept in the same bed as the pastor and his wife and the two older boys slept on the wooden benches in the church. Many of the congregation lived in corrugated metal shacks with no water or electricity, so the pastor was considered very fortunate with a real roof over his head and electricity and a pipe with water. And the amazing thing was how much spirit and vibrant faith the people had. Gave me a new perspective on what was really important.

[xxooms]

Ferrett...I must ask where your homeless friend offered for you to stay?

I think some of the "beggers for cheap labor" that come in are living way beyond their means...So, after all the bills, they are "poor by choice". And the ads on TV...We laugh because we say that we\'ve saved a lot of money not watching ads on TV and spending the $10 per month for TIVO instead.

I was a VP at a Fortune 500 company, BC, and my secretary took better vacations than I did...often I did not take any. We always saved for what we needed. I\'ve driven cars w/150K miles on them. Up until recently I didn\'t have a nice car, and I\'m in my 50\'s.

I think its that some people take no responsibility for their spending habits, then want someone else to bail them out. Consider this: two people making the same $, one blowing it and one saving some. Both retire. Do we owe (through income taxes) the person that blew all their income more than the one that didn\'t? Yet that is often the outcome. Ditto paying for their kids\' colleges.

We have always lived below our means. We can comfortably afford what we do, and when I engage an artist or craftsperson, I don\'t even talk price up front. The most important thing to me is a good, pleasing job at a fair price. I actually want to inspire the artista to do a good job. I find you get what you pay for. Does a plumber charge less because you ask him to? What about an attorney or a Dr.? (exception: pro bono work). Most professionals have "set fees". Would you DARE negotiate prices w/your hairdresser? Yikes...

LOL....at least people aren\'t sending their quilts to China (yet) to be quilted. Good crafts people are getting harder and harder to find in the US. We have moved a lot, so I\'ve been through this numerous times.

Part of my love of quilting is that it IS hand made, unique, and made in the US...When I found out that most of the N. Carolina furniture was no longer made in the US, but in Indonesia, I was appalled...So much, in fact, that I kept my US made furniture and didn\'t order any new furniture.

I will say that many people ARE used to negotiating. Its part of their persona, something they enjoy doing....Like going to Mexico and bargaining for trinkets. I DO think that many times you have someone bid a project on your house, and they do pad it, leaving room for negotiation. You can tell this when you get widely varying bids from contractors, question them about it, and they\'ll tell you "well I left some room for negotiation".

So, consider padding prices up front a bit, then coming down a bit. Then the person thinks they got a deal. If the person doesn\'t deal, then you\'ve made more $. Or, nicely but firmly sticking to your price (my preference).

I once had someone want to buy a nice newish car I was selling, as we moved where we needed a 4 wheel drive. Despite advertising the price in the paper, they lowballed me and told me that was what they could afford. I said, "then I guess this isn\'t the car for you". They ended up paying the reasonable price I was offering to sell it for....

I know of people that "dress poorly" when they are going some where that they want to get a deal with or pay less for. One of the college counselors we had told us if we\'re wanting a scholarship to a private school, to show up for the college interview in shabby clothes, riding a bike instead of driving a car, no cell phone, etc. So looks CAN be deceiving.

In conclusion, quilts are decorative items these days, and not a necessity. Many, many manufacturers of quality goods stick to full retail pricing. As long as you\'re putting out custom quality, stick to your prices.

Does anyone swap services, i.e. barter? I guess that\'s always a good question to ask if someone wants to bargain prices...maybe they have a service you need...usually not, but that tends to drive home the point.

One last question: Do any of your customers tip you for a good job? I have done that before...

[qwltnldy]

Boy has this topic touched a nerve!! Ditto everything said about the definition of "poor". I laughed out loud tho when I read about the Jag. That literally happened to me here. A lady brought me a FUSED appliqued quilt she wanted outlined, McTavished, special border treatment, ditched, blah blah. I quoted her $350 and she whined and lamented about how she hadn\'t even told her husband how much the fabric cost, etc and the softie I am, I said, OK, $300. Hating myself for it. My wonderful DH had just left the house (he comes home for lunch and he heard the whole conversation) and he called me from the road and told me that the car parked in our driveway was a Jag. (no, it ain\'t mine!). I am embarrassed to admit that I googled her name and found out her husband is the VP muckity muck at some big company and to ad insult to injury, she lives in THE swankiest neighborhood here in San Diego (Rancho Santa Fe). You can imagine my horror when upon picking up the first one, she brought me another similar one. (OH, and I forgot to mention that I saw the pattern for the quilt at Road to California for sale for $250.) THIS time, I was ready. The next quilt was even worse, since it was sorta like quilting through concrete, which I ended up not doing, but I quoted her $350 and didn\'t flinch when she started her little whinefest. Without batting an eye, I just very nicely said "Well, that\'s my price. I\'ll let you think about it for a bit while I fold up this one" She immediately said "I don\'t have to think about it, go ahead." \'NUF SAID.

Feelin\' better in So. Cal,

Robin Kinlty

[qwltnldy]

For those of you who don\'t know, Rancho Santa Fe homes are in the Millions of dollars....

Robin Kinley

Vista, CA

[Judi]

Oh my ! Takes all kinds doesn\'t it!!

[Betty]

Just happened to read this topic after preparing a sales receipt for one of my customers who has always pleaded poverty. I just finished 3 quilts for her for Christmas. She always has something to say about the price....not mean wise...just has something to say. While making out the statement for the finished quilts I was going to give her a 1/2 cent per inch discount on the custom quilt. I didn\'t want to, because I was worried it would be expected in the future, but I made out the discount anyway. Then I read this topic. It was meant for me to see this today at this time. ( I love it when stuff like this happens) I redid the statement leaving the discount off. I feel better for me, because it was a custom job and needed to be priced as such. She\'ll be fine and will continue to be my customer and I\'ll be happy to quilt for her over and over, knowing that she will always be like this, and I\'ll accept her for who she is.