tension ? to the top 4 Nona

[meg]

hi ladies - well, after weeks of fussing with lola-babys knobs and screws, i think i might be making some progress towards my king tut tension dilemma. could i get some feedback on these few questions?

i think my TOWA number is about 210-220 - does this sound acceptable?

my top tension is VERY LOOSE - i mean i don't think it's doing a thing at all. another turn or 2 and i think the whole know assembly may fall off. is this ok?

no matter how many adjustments i make - i can sometimes see a small bit of bottom thread poking up every now and then. it is not flatlining anymore on either side - but i do get an occasional poke. is this normal?

it seems that the amount of thread left on the bobbin is effecting the stitches. am i crazy? (i am winding my own spools on the turbo provided by apqs & using bottom line)

it also seems that the stitches are effected by the use of the SR. i seem to get a bit less pokes when i am running without SR. again, crazy or sane?

i have been using spools of KT that i have left over from old projects done on my bernina. will using cones change all these numbers? please say no. i just dont know if i have it in me to go thru this again!

please do not be shy to tell me i am crazy. this will not be news to anyone who knows me.

in advvance - i am most grateful. you will all be admitted to quilting heaven for having dealt with my tension headache!

meg

[Quilting Heidi]

Meg,

Tension is always something to play with, no matter how long you have been quilting. It just gets less annoying over time because it will take you less time. Yes you will notice differences in tension based on how full you bobbin is but make sure your bobbin is winding tight. If it is at all squishy then it isn't winding tight enough. I find that my bobbin thread has to be very loose and then I adjust the top thread from there. For KT I only go through one of the holes and keep the tension loose. I tighten it until I see the bobbin thread on top and then back it off by about 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Also you might need to adjust the spring in your bobbin case. I've heard very good things about Filtec (sp?) bobbins that have a magnetic core. I will hopefully get my sample soon and see if they make a big difference. You might also try adjusting your needle a little. Most like the eye of their needle to be at about 6:30. My machine like it dead on at 6. Don't be afraid to experiment. Another thing you might want to try is a thread net or even some silicone on you spool of thread. Hang in there you will get it!

[ffq-lar]

I have this formula printed out and I keep it with my King Tut thread--

Bobbin tension (usually BL pre-wounds) set at 15 on my Towa (or 150 for the newer gauges) This is a looser than normal setting.

Top tension on the KT thread "too tight"--meaning it takes a big tug on the thread to get it started through the tension disks. It always surprises me how tight the top thread needs to be to get a good stitch.

Quilt top slack on the frame. Tighten it up and then back off.

Top thread going down the first hole in the three-hole above the tensioner and up in the last--skip the middle hole.

Slather on the Sewer's Aid--both top and bobbin thread.

Stitch a sample off the quilt to test.

If you find you get occasional loops on the bottom, your quilt is too tight on the rollers.

Re-apply Sewer's Aid as needed.

King Tut is beautiful but fussy. Once you find a combo that works, write all info down for future reference.

You can use spools instead of cones by using a set-up that allows the thread to pull off the spool--a horizontal spool holder works. Or my desperation solution late one night--I put the spool in a plastic deli container (think potato salad!) punched a hole in the lid for the thread to pass through, threaded the machine, and crammed the container between the back thread spindle and the side of the machine--making sure the thread passed freely. Worked like a charm--I used my deli tub for two years until I got a spool holder.

Good luck licking the KT tension demons--you can do it!!

[witha'K'quilting]

Originally posted by ffq-lar

You can use spools instead of cones by using a set-up that allows the thread to pull off the spool--a horizontal spool holder works. Or my desperation solution late one night--I put the spool in a plastic deli container (think potato salad!) punched a hole in the lid for the thread to pass through, threaded the machine, and crammed the container between the back thread spindle and the side of the machine--making sure the thread passed freely. Worked like a charm--I used my deli tub for two years until I got a spool holder.

...think potato salad...

Oh great. Now I am hungry. Thanks alot Linda!

[Mary Beth]

What they said....and you are not crazy Tension is just not easy for the first year, and I think you are still in that catagory. I think it is because we have been told all our sewing life not to touch the tension dial on our sewing machines, or at least I was told that. My mom would have banned me forever if I hand cranked around with her tension. But with these machines, we have freedom to do what ever it takes. Just relax, and one of these days you will be surprised. It is almost like all of a sudden, it works. And King Tut is so beautiful and so hard to use.

[cjtinkle]

This topic has me really nervous. King Tut on top and Bottom Line in the bobbin are my two favorite thread combos, and on my HQ16 perfect tension is the easiest thing in the world to achieve, I'm so afraid it's going to be so difficult on the Millennium when it arrives!

[Gator]

CJ don't get worried, my "Gator" loves King Tut (knock on wood) flows beautifully without a problem. I have no idea why some machines love it and some don't. I don't know if it makes a difference but I only use pre-wound bobbins.

[Sandra Darlington]

I am using Tutt on a log cabin quilt right now. I have Sew Fine in the bobbin and Quilter's Dream Puff as the batting. It took a bit of testing to get the tension good, and each bobbin change seems to require another test and some adjustments. I've also noticed that somethimes, but not every time, about 1/2 way through the bobbin the tension changes again. I did a bit of ripping out and resewing this quilt, but the Tutt looks great. It is my own quilt, so I can practice on it.

I have a lot of Tutt, as I use it with my Bernina and also used it on my New Joy frame with a Brother 1500S. That machine loved it the best of all the threads. But, I still struggle using it with my Liberty. I really like the way it looks.

[Neher-in-law5]

I have George and King Tut is the thread that worked the best as I started with him. I have now "graduated" to comfort and quick ease in changing the tension to using some So Fine and Aurifil. Don't let the finickyness of the different threads scare you. The advice that I got on here that made the difference for me was to loosen the tension until it is rotten, then tighten it by full turns until it becomes good again. At that point it needs just a bit of tweaking and you are ready to quilt.

[ckeindl]

Just a question - isn't King Tut on top and Bottom Line in the bobbin a little too "different" in thread sizes? I mean thick and thin? I usually try to keep my top and bobbin of similar thickness?

I don't have a Towa gauge, but I find if I can slightly press my nail against the wound thread then it usually is good! I saw a You Tube once about using a stand alone bobbin winder and it was different than my instructions (or looks so?!) since I changed that my bobbins have been smooth and consistent. I'll try to explain (and send a photo later after work if need be). the thread comes off the top of the holder, down through the little eye, then down under the tension dial and off over the top of the tension dial to the bobbin? What do you all think?

Thanks!

[nora123]

I sent you a e-mail.

Nora

[TerriVB]

Meg--This link is from the APQS home site on the support page--I printed it out on June of 2007 and I still need to look at it occasionally--but I find it extremely helpful to remeber which--the top or bobbin--needs to be tightened or loosened.

http://www.apqs.com/support.php?id=155

Hope it gives you a little more information.

Keep at it--you will get it!!

Terri

[Hollyrw]

Meg, you say you are using spools that you used on your DSM. Is the thread wrapped around the spool straight or in a criss cross fashion? If it's straight, you need to be using a horizontal spool holder, if criss cross a vertical holder.

[cjtinkle]

Well I don't make any claims in the expert department by any means, but I don't have any trouble at all combining these two threads on my HQ, or even on my sewing machine. They look equally perfect on either side of the quilt. I sure hope my Millennium is as accommodating!

Originally posted by ckeindl

Just a question - isn't King Tut on top and Bottom Line in the bobbin a little too "different" in thread sizes? I mean thick and thin? I usually try to keep my top and bobbin of similar thickness?

I don't have a Towa gauge, but I find if I can slightly press my nail against the wound thread then it usually is good! I saw a You Tube once about using a stand alone bobbin winder and it was different than my instructions (or looks so?!) since I changed that my bobbins have been smooth and consistent. I'll try to explain (and send a photo later after work if need be). the thread comes off the top of the holder, down through the little eye, then down under the tension dial and off over the top of the tension dial to the bobbin? What do you all think?

Thanks!

[quiltmonkey]

Originally posted by meg

hi ladies - well, after weeks of fussing with lola-babys knobs and screws, i think i might be making some progress towards my king tut tension dilemma. could i get some feedback on these few questions?

Yes. I use King Tut with my Millennium and don't have any issues with it.

i think my TOWA number is about 210-220 - does this sound acceptable?

I don’t use a TOWA but sounds good to me! If it works for you then the answer is yes.

my top tension is VERY LOOSE - i mean i don't think it's doing a thing at all. another turn or 2 and i think the whole know assembly may fall off. is this ok?

No not OK for your assembly to fall off. Your knob and tension disks should have some (even if it’s slight) tension to it. Rather than that, run the thread through two of the three holes, or even one if you must. I use Tut and find tension is better if I have the thread running through all three holes. I really loosen up my bobbin (that’s the trick!)

no matter how many adjustments i make - i can sometimes see a small bit of bottom thread poking up every now and then. it is not flatlining anymore on either side - but i do get an occasional poke. is this normal?

No, you shouldn’t get an occasional poke. Keep tweaking.

it seems that the amount of thread left on the bobbin is effecting the stitches. am i crazy? (i am winding my own spools on the turbo provided by apqs & using bottom line)

No you are not crazy. And yes, you are crazy. (We’re all crazy. ) I wind my own bobbins, too and use Bottom Line 99% of the time.

it also seems that the stitches are effected by the use of the SR. i seem to get a bit less pokes when i am running without SR. again, crazy or sane?

Not crazy. But your tension should be the same regardless of which way you use the machine. You might need to make a slight adjustment on top but not much.

i have been using spools of KT that i have left over from old projects done on my bernina. will using cones change all these numbers? please say no. i just dont know if i have it in me to go thru this again!

I don’t know (I don’t have a TOWA) but I doubt it will change anything with the numbers. Remember, your TOWA is for your BOBBIN tension and has nothing to do with your top (King Tut) tension.

please do not be shy to tell me i am crazy. this will not be news to anyone who knows me.

I said it before and I will say it again. You are crazy.  Don’t change; stay that way!!! It’s a good thing.

in advvance - i am most grateful. you will all be admitted to quilting heaven for having dealt with my tension headache! meg

Meg, I promise you will some day get through this tension dilemma and will “get it” and the clouds will break and the sun light beams will shine down upon you and you will have an Epiphany. You will “get it” and all will be good (for the most part) from there on out.

So……… this is what advice I will give you re: dealing with King Tut and your Towa.

1) Bobbin drop test: In your hand, take your bobbin thread and adjust the bobbin so it drops and slides slowly, evenly and smoothly (without stopping or slowing) down like a spider does down a web. Looser is better than tighter. Then when you get that nice even smooth rolling bobbin, put that bobbin in your Towa and MARK DOWN THAT NUMBER!!! That is your tension you want to use on the Towa gauge.

2) Put your King Tut in the top and run it through all three holes. (yes I said all three holes! ) and tighthten the knob so it has a slight tension on it.

3) Now, put a test sandwich on the frame and practice doing some lines and curves. Feel the top thread on the quilt, is it too loose? Tighten the knob. Tighten the knob until you start to see a very tiny bit of the Bobbin thread beginning to poke up through the hole that the needle made. When you start to see the bobbin thread inside the hole, turn the knob left (loose) one quarter turn (just a bit) and your top tension should be pretty good.

4) If you continue to have top tension issues, loosen a wee bit, but not much. If you get breaks, try some Sewer’s Aid on the spool. If you have issues, only run it through two of the three holes. Only go through one hole if it’s the last ditch effort. The thing is, you really do need some tension on your top.

5) Keep playing and experimenting. Don’t be afraid to tweak the top.

6) Don’t tweak the bobbin any more; it’s perfect. Only mess with the top.

7) Don't forget ------most important! Don't be scared. and Have fun!!

[quiltmonkey]

OK one more thing I wanted to mention: Keep your bobbin area clean with regular blow out with canned air (or air compressor) followed by a bath in WD40 and oiling. I also blow out my bobbin case after each bobbin change. I think a clean machine is a happy machine and a happy machine gives you good stitches and good tension.

You don't need to WD40 every time, but I clean mine a few times a month with it (depending on how much quilting I do). I blow out all of the time (during bobbin changes)---especially when using linty cotton threads, and I oil often, too.

I use all kinds of different threads. When I have tension problems, I just tweak the top. I experiment. Depending on the top thread, I might loosen up my bobbin a little more.

[meg]

You are all so nice.

Shana - I am glad to hear that you can wind you own bobbins and have nice stitches. I was beginning to wonder. This gives me hope.

Holly - I have the horizontal spool holder - I was asking if it would be different when I used a cone cause I would be threading it thru more twists and turns. I should have been more clear.

Terri - I have already printed that link - but will take another look at it. Maybe I missed something.

Sandra - Glad you too are experiencing the halfway through the bobbin thread funk as well. I bet those prewound bobbins would help with this since they are wound by pros. But I really want to be able to wind my won, don't you?

Connie - You give me hope.

MaryBeth - I am not afraid to touch Lola-baby's tension anymore. I have fiddled and proded her screws and knobs so much, that if I were a man, I might have to marry her.

Linda - I have some sewers aid I forgot about - I'll try that.

Heidi and Nora - I am going to order some of those magnetic core bobbins to try. But I still want to be able to wind my own. It's another weirdness of mine - kinda like my cotton obsession.

And rest assured - I remain undaunted by all this. While I would like to move on from all these practice pieces and quilt some of the tops I made while experiencing my 'waiting for Lola frenzy', I'll keep at it until I get it.

If I am anything - it is stubborn. And while Lola-baby may be stubborn...she is no match for me. I will prevail!

Thanks for helping me - I'm headed back down there now to try some new things. Pray for me.

[meg]

:-) for Nona

[meg]

:-) for Nona

[juliagraves]

I think 210 is way too tight on your Towa gauge. I keep mine around 140, other people have mentioned they keep theirs as high as 180.

A spool vs a cone may have an effect, but typically it's the thickness of the thread and how slick and delicate it is. Different threads want things looser vs tighter.

I run Bottom Line almost exclusively in the bobbin. Great thread and it doesn't matter what you pair it with, you just need to adjust the tension.

A good test is to pull on the thread through the needle. Does it glide easily? Or do you have to pull hard (too tight) or does it just fly through (too loose)? You'll get a feel for what's right after a while.

Julia

[newellyn]

The Fil-tec Magna glides and magna quilt bobbins solved all my tension problems so far. Love, love, love them.

[Chocoholic]

Meg and Connie. My machine loves KT also. I use pre-wound Bottom lIne, aluminum Bottom Line, aluminum KT, well, almost anything in the bobbin. You just have to work and work with the tension.

To answer a question you asked early in this thread, sometimes I find that a bobbin will change tension as there is less thread on the bobbin. Not sure why this happens, but I guess you can't get a perfectly wound bobbin 100% of the time!

If you are using KT spools, and you don't have a way to hold them so the thread comes off the side, this may be part of the problem. Cones or any other cross wound thread should come off the top, but most spools are straight wound and need to come off the side. You may find that cones make it easier to adjust the tension.

[meg]

Sheila -

you love chocolate and king tut threads - we have a lot in common!

thanks for the vote of confidence

meg

[quiltmonkey]

Meg, I was thinking this morning about your "tension" headaches...

First, check to make sure your bobbin is wound tightly. If you have a spongy bobbin then that will be a big problem. Thread needs to be TIGHTLY wound on the bobbin.

Second, I know you love King Tut and want to use it in both top and bottom, but ......before trying to solve all of the worlds problems by using this together, I think you should try to learn the tension balance with much easier threads. You see, when you use cottons in both top and bottom, they tend to grab at each other (the little cotton strand nubby thingies---you know ) and this is tricky. Why don't you try using Tut in top and use either So Fine or Bottom Line in the bobbin and see if that fixes your problems. Or at least helps... Give it a try.

I think using both cotton on top and bottom is a challenge for anyone so..... don't try to climb Mt. Everest when you haven't even climbed a hill yet. Get my drift chickeee???

[meg]

for linda