Ammoman Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 How do I become one who makes a life of leisure and wealth when I have the resources of a pauper and the support of a toothpick and the intelligence of a root; and how do I stand when five people push or seven or fourteen hold me down in a cauldron of slag? And when the seven forfeit their rights, will the five give way prompting the fourteen to have mercy, and will they reach down and take my hand, or push each other in the same manner. How do I sleep when eyes of lust and the breath of fear consume me; and why do I feed the hunger knowing full well the frenzy will not end? I go when I have nowhere to be and nothing to do. I stay because I’m forced, forced by an addiction, Millennium, my tainted needle, my love on levels perplexing. I wrote the above paragraph a couple years ago and refer back to it from time to time. The millennium part was added a few minutes ago. With the addiction to quilting that some of us may know, it just seems appropriate. Ok I’m a man in a room full of women. I wonder who’s going to try and bite my head off first? If I sound harsh its because I’m shooting straight from the hip. So…I don’t understand this. I see a couple people dead set against CQ yet they have no problem grinding away at a panto. Tell me…what’s the difference between a panto, circle lord or any other device that takes human error out of the equation? Unless you are completely free handing every circle and every diagonal line in your quilt, you have no room to complain and you are in fact doing nothing less than using something other than your god given talent to enhance a quilt. Now…if you had a choice between pushing a quilt through a sewing machine and using a long arm, which one would you choose? I see no reason to complain about CQ or any other device that helps us create some of the most beautiful quilts ever made. As stated before. CQ and SS are not the end all. They have there limits and are devices to help us get our quilts done better and faster. Also…Let’s stop complaining about who has what device and how many long arms there are in our areas. Yes APQS and other long arm manufactures are competing and they are no different than us. If your competitive you will embrace every bit of technology you can get your hands on and compete. If you’re not able to compete – for what ever reason – the market will eat you up and spit you out. It’s a fact that the market changes and its also a fact that some get left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigletaz Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Thank you for that.... memorable analogy. Yes, remember, you are in a room full of women. Hormone raging, (mostly) slightly post menopausal women. We all have hopes and fears and dreams. Some have talent, some only skill (like me) and some, well let's not go into that. But, all that said, I think the debate about whether to CQ, SS, CL or HF is all personal choice AND what the market demands in your area. So, many will go forth without any of the above mentioned accronyms and many will. And we should all stand united and I think for the most part we do. I just hope I don't get spit out. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Ammoman, I enjoyed reading your prose. Very interesting! Well, my humble opinion about quilting, longarms, CQ, CL, SS and all the other tools out there is just that: they are tools. They are options, they are choices, they are opportunities if we choose to use them. That's all. I like the idea that we have choices. I also appreciate very much that we live in a very creative society, a very entrepreneur and capital-venture society, and I am thankful that we live in a free world and a free country and we all have the resources or the ways to the avenues to achieve our dreams if we wish to do so. I consider myself so fortunate. There are people who live in Africa and Asia that daily (daily every day, every day-for many years on end) and these people do not know when or if they will have anything to eat on that day. They live in fear every day that they will be hungry something to eat for dinner or breakfast, or that their baby will die from a disease. They have nothing. Food is the constant thing on their mind. That is their every day fight for living and reality; a meal in their belly. So, I try not to take what I have for granted and the many riches and choices I am given. Many years ago, people would tell me "Shana, you can do and you can be whatever you want to be on this earth." I think I really did not realize that until maybe 10 years ago that this was so very true; I thought dreams coming true and huge success were only for the lucky few but now I know better. Anyone can do and be anything they want to. And the other thing I learned is that OTHER PEOPLE want to HELP make your dreams come true, and all you have to to is ask them how to help make it so. They get joy out of helping one succeed. I'm making my dreams come true gradually every day. I don't have a CQ, and hmmm...I don' tknow when or if I will get one but the possibility is there that I just might some day. It's nice to know that people are inventing these tools for us to choose from. Personally for me, I am taking it one day at a time and enjoying my creative learning experience, learning a little bit every day and I am very grateful I have what I do have and who knows what the future will bring me. Tools are tools, no matter what they are or how expensive they are. A Mercedes will get me from point A to point B, just the same as a Volkswagen will except the Mercedes will get me there faster. It's a car, a tool, except just one costs more than the other one does. It's nice to have choices and opportunities. I like Mercedes, and I like the VW bugs, too. I like CQ, CL, SS and all the other tools available to me. I love my friends on this chat board. I am grateful for all I have learned here and all that is shared. Life is good! Thanks for posting, Ammo... I hope you come back often to share your insights. You are always welcome with us girls and guys any time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam.Nagle Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I like my CQ. I can't draw and sure can't follow a panto very well. I don't even try to compete with the other LA's in my area. There are quite a few. It will come when I'm ready. I know I can do it. I work a FT job M-F and quilt when I can. But, I am stupid. Because, if I'm in my sewing room, that Millie should be up and running all the time. PPP, PPP, PPP. My husband said I have 157,000 tops to do of my own, my Mom gives me some of hers (I trade piecing for quilting!). I think that this group is the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeoldeforest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 First of all, Ammo Dude, sounds like you are falling in love with your long arm! Not allowed...only women are allowed to have affairs with their machines...I know, cause Dawn C told me so!!! Men have cars with female names and women have their long arm machines with male names!!! So you are allowed to have fun with your long arm...just don't fall in love! 2nd, I wonder if our competition isn't from each other but from world competition. Has anyone seen the beautiful quilts you can get at a Cracker Barrel? Made in China, 100% cotton fabric, not sure of the batting, and for a Queen size only $75.00 (on sale at 25% off). I've thought about ripping the tags off and entering one or two of these quilts in a show and seeing if they could actually win a ribbon. Yes, I know my ribbons would be stripped from me when found out...but wanted to see what the judges thought about these quilts. By the way, these quilts are made in China on Gammill quilting machines. How do I know? When we were comparing machines, the Gammill dealer told us these machines are increasing in popularity in China and being shipped regularly. Wonder how many machines, including computerized, APQS has shipped to China? Wouldn't they have the right? Now there is a philosophical question! I can see the ad for our competition as follows: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beautiful, heirloom quality quilt (up to King size) for only $5.00 Shipping charges $50.00. 4 to 6 week turn around. Thread - $1.00 extra -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even the Ebay quilters would have to go out of business! By the way, do y'all know where most of the fabric for our quilts are made? Not too many textile manufacturers left in NC! Couldn't resist grabbing a soap box..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Okay, mister, you are obviously talking to me....but you have to know I am not a fighter...also, it is not an argument, it is just an opinion and you know what they say about that. I do use a pantograph, first, because I can afford to pay $18 for a pattern that I can follow. Second, because I am not artistic and cannot freehand most things. Third, because my customer base will not support a CQ. The last one is the most important to me. Okay, call me realistic. Good grief, it is just a discussion. I could care less if everyone on this message board had a CQ, SS or whatever, it is not going to make me run out and buy one...and your levels or perplexity won't either!! Have a great day, Mary Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammoman Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 It’s understandable that a lot of people would misinterpret my comments. I tend to be long winded. What I’m saying is….we all have hopes and dreams and at times we feel like people are holding us back. I was posing a question to the nature of people and I was wondering who it might be amongst us that would try and hold someone back. When I see someone complaining about the person down the road doing the same thing they are doing for less, I see that person as one who is trying to hold someone back. If my comments bother you, it may be because you feel a little guilty about your “opinion” My comments are very general and if they touch you personally I’ll take it as a complement. Speaking of opinions, opinions are not just opinions. We don’t say things because they are opinions, we say things because we want to influence other peoples thoughts and bring them around to the way we think. Its human nature and we are all guilty of it. I have no problems confronting people and I’m certainly not afraid of voicing my opinion. That said, I’m also prepared to see the error of my ways and I will not cry about being corrected. Please…I welcome free thought as long as its not counterproductive and I do in fact love reading all the posts on this site. One other thing… I loved what Quiltmonkey had to say about being an American. She is in my “Opinion” right in every aspect of her response. I’ve been around the world and seen what she is talking about. I’ve seen those children starving and those mothers begging for food. I’ve seen horrific things like child prostitutes in the streets and humans left dead like animals on the side of the road. Being former military hence the name “Ammoman” has opened my eyes wider than most can imagine. I’ve also seen the cardboard boxes that some call there home and then I see us. Us Americans making quilts by choice and overeating at Mc Donald’s. Even a wooden frame with a tin roof and real floor is more than most people have in this world. We are, as long armer’s, amongst the wealthiest in the world and we have done this by taking care of our nearest and dearest. Don’t complain about competition. Be thankful its there and strive to be the best you can be with what you have. Help your neighbor and even your competition and you’ll find yourself rewarded on "Levels perplexing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadows4 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 We're all in this together, even though we have differing "opinions" about different tools of "OUR" trade. I like some, don't like others (tools), but believe we are all comrades in the longarm world. It wasn't accepted years ago, but now it's getting it's due because of the folks who broke through and stuck with it despite the naysayers. It's changing all of the time, and we are in charge of how it changes. We can be a bunch of LAers who fight between ourselves (even quietly) and the world will see us in a negative light, or we can agree to disagree on certain fronts, but still be comrades and see each other that way, and the world will see us in a positive light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linda S Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Wow - you're a real "glass is half-empty" kind of guy, no? I occasionally free-hand. I generally do custom quilting with rulers and stencils. I occasionally do a panto. I still make decisions about what I will put where. And, I would love to have an Intelliquilter, but don't know if I will ever be able to afford one. However, I don't feel I have any limitations, and I ain't complaining! It's all good to me. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlittle1 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Oh dear, this is just much too deep for me at this hour of the night. Ammoman, as you pointed out you are a man that is greatly outnumbered by many women. As we have discussed on this site many times men and women think differently. We women want to share our problems with our friends and have them commiserate with us. Men just want to get on with things and get them done. They don't want to talk over their problems with others. As for quilting; a needle is a tool, as is a DSM, a LA, and a computerized LA. The quilting will only be as good as the person using the tool. My first thought when I read your first comment was, "Bug off and leave us women alone." But that's not very nice of me to say and the men are certainly welcome on this site. Heaven forbid, I don't know what we'd do without Mark from APQS and John Mitchell of Country Lane Quilting. You are most certainly welcome to express your comments on this site, but please remember that the same subjects come up time and time again. Most of us don't think to go search the archives with a problem. We just jump on here and ask our questions and express our opinions because we are among friends. Women share with each other. So if you don't feel like reading complaints about competition, just skip those posts and go onto the ones that you find interesting. Ammoman, your postings sound like something my big brother would say when we were kids. He always could get my back up, especially when I felt he was being condescending. He did it on purpose, just to make me mad. I suspect that was your purpose as well. This is a really friendly site; you might want to keep that in mind and be friendly instead of condescending to all us "womenfolk." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsbishwit Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Ammoman, How should I put this...without offending you, because you have served in our military and for that I am very grateful and would like to say thank you for your service. However lets put things into perspective, this is first a long arm chat site set up by the wonderful people of APQS to help not just the APQS owners but all long arm/ mid arm & short arm owners as well as people who hope to someday own one. We come from all walks of life, poor, middle class, and even the rich. We have a wide range of talents, knowledge, and skills which anyone of us are more than willing to share with the other. We offer each other words of praise and encouragement and are there to grieve and cry with each other when there is need. The people on this website have developed into more than just friendships, they are extensions of our own families. I wrote the original post about competing with a computerized longarm, never once did I say that there was anything wrong with a long armer using one in thier business or that it was wrong to have one and that any quilt that was quilted by one was less worthy of one that was not. If I could afford to add a compuquilter I would. I also said that the quilt that I saw that was done with a SS which prompted me to write the post was amazing. The quilter's design skills of placement, and color of the quilt design is what made the quilt so wonderful. I have never been afraid of competition, in fact I have offered to help pigletaz and kellysuequilter (which post on this site) and who are in my area so they are my competitors, as well as several others that do not post to this site get there business started so they didn't have to make the same mistakes that I did when I first started out 2 years ago. A person who was afraid of compettion would not do that. As far as guilt (as you mentioned earlier) what do I have to be guilty of? Of having a successful business? Having an insecure moement about my own talent (which ALL of us do have from time to time...it makes us human and better quilters) when it came to competing with a computerized machine, so I came to this site to vent where I knew I would get the reassurance and support from my fellow long armers. If this is what you call gulit, then I am guilty as charged. Ok so with that being said I would like you to to think about something else that is also considered perplexing, "Compassion" it's something that very few use in the world today but is desperatly needed by ALL of us. Like I said at the begining of this reply I didn't want to offend you (and I hope I didn't) if my remarks seem a little harsh it's only because I am PMSing and your posts came off as a little judgmental, so I too needed to shoot from my hip as you put it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlittle1 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well said, Joann. Except you don't need to apologize for your feelings as you did in your last paragraph. His posts are very judgemental and self-righteous. This is a friendly and supportive site which is why I like it so much. If he doesn't like all the complaints then he can simply skip those discussions and move on to those he enjoys. I do that all the time. If I read everything I would never get any quilting done. My guess is that Ammoman wanted to start an argument. Like my brother, he enjoys arguing. With that said, I had better get back to my quilting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammoman Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well…it looks like I cant ask a question without sounding condescending or self righteous. please, understand what I’m trying to say. Is it self righteous to say “Don’t complain about competition? Is it condescending to say “Be thankful competition is there and strive to be the best you can be? A lot of people have businesses here and I promises you, people don’t like to here others complain in public. If you really have the need to vent, do it in private amongst your closest friends. To me…a person complaining in public needs to be aware that not everyone within earshot wants to here it. APQS has a thing called u2u for this reason. Call me what you will…but I know I speak for a lot of people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeoldeforest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 K - you might as well throw in the towel and admit defeat. Regardless of your argument, quilting is a sport for women and as such you are out numbered. This forum is for quilters and women! Women like to complain, vent, discuss and yes, even in public, cry on each other's shoulders. This is a wonderful site to air your opinion for all to see and get feedback. I think many would argue that some's "closest friends" are on this forum. So play nice and apologize already and move on... you may need help from some of those you are arguing a mute point with.... ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecl Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think that know matter what one says there will always be a person who doesn't agree or thinks what you said is condescending, self righteous or way out of line. If we all stop saying what we are thinking, we don't speak our minds and challenge others to think outside the box...life would be pretty dull. We would be like a ping-pong ball bouncing around in a square box and not going anywhere. Controversy is always good. It hopefully gets us out of our comfort zones to examine the world around us, maybe readjust our opinions and options or cements us further into our own beliefs. Cheryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsigler Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Where do I complain about this guy's complaining about other people complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbm Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 You go, Cathey! Yes, Ammoman, we do occasionally vent on this site - as several have said, if you don't like it, go read something else, you're not going to change it! We women (and not all LAers are women, but the majority seem to be) are prone to vent to one another - it helps us blow off steam and not yell at our customers or our DHs. So, if you don't like reading our venting, please go read a different post. There are plenty out there! Ammoman, I think you'll find as you spend more time on this site, that most of those posting here are willing, even excited, to help those just starting out, or those who have hit a wall of some sort. That's the purpose of this site. If, on occasion, it gets a little whiney, well, that's a human reaction - you've got to let it go. Just skip over those parts and get to the parts that either help you, or prompt you to offer your help. That's what we're all here for, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethDurand Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hey Ammoman, thanks, but I can speak for myself. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltermidwife Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 This post certainly seems to have generated a heated response. I read it initially, found it interesting but not offensive and moved on. As it gained heat and momentum I have found myself going back to the original post and re-reading. It seems to me, like any other post here, that this is an opinion. As many have so rightly alluded to, this site gives everyone equal right to express themselves both quilt related and not and we as members who believe in that ideal and in equality should I believe respect that, remembering that it works both ways. Ammoman does seem to have upset a number of people and I wonder if this is because he has expressed an opinion about the tools of the trade (which is not exclusive to this thread) or called people 'complaining' which I guess is also an opinion? I do not feel particularly strongly about any of the points but more about the freedom people may or may not feel at being able to express an opinion for fear of upsetting. As was said, we can just move on. I hope everyone will continue to have healthy, hearty and interesting debates within this group. I for one enjoy my daily visit. Chris ps please don't put me in the firing line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Chris, not putting you in the firing line, but in case you missed it, this thread is actually a extention from one last week. http://www.apqs.com/quiltboard/viewthread.php?tid=8079#pid68614 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeAnn Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I think Ammoman should realize that women complain and then feel better afterwards. Something about complaining to 1000 of your best friends and have them commiserate with you just feels good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodlebug Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 lee ann.... don\'t forget crying, chocolate, and ice cream (preferably chocolate ice cream) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlittle1 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 The funny thing is that I agree with much of the substance of Ammoman\'s first post. The subject of competition comes up frequently on this site. Whether it be computerized quilting, a quilter charging $50.00 for a queen size quilt, 500 LAs in an area, or an extremely talented quilter down the street from you, there will always be competition. Usually, the discussion comes around to the point that you need to find your niche and strive to be the best at what you do. Try attending a city council meeting when Wal-mart decides to build in your area. Believe me the local merchants will be there in force trying to stop it from happening. They know that many local businesses will go out of business because they can\'t compete with Wal-mart\'s prices. The problem with the written word is that there is no tone of voice or facial expression to help with the meaning of what is being said. Therefore, the reader may "hear" what was written very differently from the way that the writer meant it. While I agreed with the substance of Ammoman\'s post I disagreed with the way it was said. What I "heard" was "stop whining about competition because no one wants to hear it." While this site is mainly about running a LA business, it has become a place where most of us find friends. We share joys and sorrows. We show pictures of our babies and grandbabies and our pets. Most of us work from our homes and frequently feel isolated. We need the friendship that we find on this site. Yes, we whine and complain. But we expect our friends to understand when we do that. Everyone\'s opinion is welcome here. When we have disagreements we try to make them friendly disagreements. But.....we try to choose our words carefully when we disagree so that others aren\'t offended. I was offended, as others were, by Ammoman\'s comments. If my words weren\'t well chosen in my first two posts, then I apologize. But I do ask that Ammoman remember that he is communicating mainly with women and temper his comments with that in mind. That doesn\'t mean we can\'t take the heat, but we will respond in kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadows4 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well said, Phyllis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltermidwife Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Bonnie, thanks for your response. Yes I did also read the interesting thread this one is related to, where people had various views to \'tools of the trade\' and competition. Annlittle1, I agree with a lot of what you say and so well articulated. In the absence of sound or vision, flaring can happen so easily on iternet sites, as you so rightly point out. We lose some of the context in which something is said and in so doing may cause offence. There are times when I write something only to read back over it a day later and think how badly I\'ve expressed a point or conveyed a message in an unintended abrupt way. With that in mind, when reading posts I try to take that into consideration. When typing the brain is going at a faster pace than we can type and bits, not just letters or words, but emotions get missed! And thats probably the case when I just don\'t get someone\'s point. For this reason we do have to be more careful in how we word views that may be upsetting to some. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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