Butterfly Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have a panto on the frame now. I don't do to many of them, but when I do, I always have problems. I can never get from one side to the other without breaking my top thread at least once. Usually it breaks about three times. Is this the norm? I use SoFine, I have slowed down, loosened the quilt, loosened the tension and changed needles three times. 4.0 to 3.5 to 4.5. Same result. Pantographs definitely are not working as a money maker for me as I spend so much time ripping out and burying thread, re-threading, and stopping when I notice I have a problem again. Ugh. I don't think I'll buy any more. Sorry for the complaining. I just wish it were easier. Jessica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinneaMarie Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Don't feel like the Lone Ranger!! I can't do a panto to save my patootie!! Some say go fast, others say go slow. Others still say practice for 15 minutes w/o the machine running. Sorry I can't help, but I know jst what you mean!!:P:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyLake Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I know what you mean, Jessica. I wonder if it has to do with us not quilting as smoothly, slowly and consistently from the back of the machine, because we are trying to follow the pattern, so the thread breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Farnham Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I find that when I do Panto work, I need to speed up the machine a bit and run in manual. I always have the music up and I just get into the groove. Remember to look ahead of where you are stitching. Like driving a car. You look ahead of the hood, Not down at the road. I hope this help. Panto's aren't my thing either. I can normally freehand a design easier than follow a panto. You are not alone!!! Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleyl Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have done some panto's that take longer than if I would have freehanded it. So not any help here. Panto's actually take me more time, so they aren't as much as a money maker. But they work when your brain dead. Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvstoquilt Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I HATE pantos...lol. I do not like being at the back of the machine. I find it so much easier to just quilt what I like from the front. I have HUGE respect for those who are successful at pantos. They have such cute designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiltmonkey Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi Jess, Everyone above has given you some great advice! It can be a number of things... you really have to relax. Yes, and like Joan said, you really have to keep a steady consistent speed. Why don't you try this without SR? You might be pleasantly surprised how much easier pantos are to do sans SR. Well, after you get done with this one,,, put on a practice piece and you will see what I mean. I think in the beginning while we are still learning and getting "comfortable" with our machines, that is when bad things happen a lot more often to us. So, rest assured that this is just a "phase" you are going through. I remember I used to break thread a lot, and I sure had my share of TENSION headaches, too! But,,,After a while, it slowly occurs less often... Same thing with tension and thread issues and all that stuff...they dissapate over time. You just have to be patient. Like dealing with teenagers, ya gotta grit your teeth and bear through the rough times. It gets better, I promise!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I don't do Pantos beacause I don't know how and I have too much fun doing freehand. I actually did one. I have been trying to figure out if I am smart enough to make the panto come out right at the bottom of the quilt. I am happy to hear someone else has similar problems with pantos. PPP might help!! I will give it a try again someday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsbishwit Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I only do pantos on customer quilts. I rarely do custom anymore (I am not a huge fan of the front of the machine because I find it some what intimadating). Ok so when I first got my machine 5 years ago I just jumped into doing the pantos (before I realised I was suppose to fear the back side of the machine ) Anyways think of the pantos as tracing the design (simiular to that when you were a child and you would trace a drawing) but instead of using a pencil you are using a laser light and as you are at the back of the table have only 1 hand on the back handles... your right hand should be on the left handle of your machine and your left hand should rest on the take up roller (for balance and to keep it out of the way). I always use my stitch regulator when I do pantos that way it goes at my speed, starts and stops when I do. also I keep my stitch per inch at 10. Relax!! look beyond the laser dot (just like you do when driving you look beyond the hood of the car you look down the road to where you are driving), also if you need to take a rest or to check your work do it at the points in the designs or in the straight lines of the pantos NOT on the curves. I find it is easier to go quicker on the curves (so you get the smooth curves) and a little slower speed approaching the points or straight lines. The key to pantos as with any long arm quilting technique is PPP!, relax and have fun. And never grip both back handles at the same time when doing pantos you are setting yourself up for failure. Good luck and don't put so much pressure on yourself, it will get easier. FYI quick jerky movements one way or the other esspecially at points/intersections will break the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcclannan Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I do pantos about half the time. For me the key is to look just a little ahead in the design and move at a smooth even pace. Maybe if you pretend you're freehanding your machine will behave.:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamarack Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 One thing I noticed with pantos is the my thread will break when it goes through a thick seam. I normally avoid these areas when I am working from the front of my machine. So thread breakage may also depend on how well the customer pieced and pressed her quilt top. Something to pay attention too before you deside to quilt a panto on a quilt with poor pressing. Those quilts I will free hand from the front so I can avoid the 'high' spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 There is nothing more frustrating then your thread breaking...especially when you are working from the back of the machine and you have to walk back around to fix the thread. On that point you can think about it this way, we are suppose to take 10,000 steps a day and you are working toward that. When working with a panto you do need to get in the rhythm. I'm not as brave as Laura...my SR stays on most of the time. Some day maybe, but not yet. I agree too, you need to relax, no jerky movements. As far as it taking forever, yes, if it is very detailed it is going to take a while. I like the easy flowing pantos they seem to go quicker. I don't know why your thread would be breaking, there are so many factors. I just went through that today too and found that my needle bar had dropped down about 1/16", not much, but enough to make a mess of my quilting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quilting Heidi Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 All good advice. I find that havin a smaller stitch helps things go much more smoothly. I almost always use the SR. Using 1 hand is key, otherwise you fight yourself which is probably what is causing you to break your thread. Once you get the feel for it then it will be much easier. I found it took me 3 or 4 pantos before I felt completely comfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene Epp Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'm really surprised by how many of you are only using and advocating using one hand! I've been doing pantos since I got my machine in '97 and have been teaching them since '99. I find my students get much better control, and actually train both sides of the brain to work by using both hands. What about the lefties? Which hand would they use to guide the machine? Once you get the correct stance with your feet and can move without it showing on the top of the quilt, it's much easier and you'll have far better control on the detailed patterns. Using one hand may work for the simple patterns, but you need that push, push technique from each hand to get nice sharp points on detailed patterns. For those that have trouble with freehand work, forcing both hands and sides of the brain to work from the back of the machine will make the transition to the front of the machine much easier. Just another opinion. I don't want the newbies to think that using one hand is the only way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon M Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'm still a Newbie, but thought I would throw in my 2 cents too I definitely understand your frustration! I would have to agree with Darlene. For the life of me I can't stay on course when I steer with one hand! I like to put my right hand on the back of the machine rather than on the right handle though... I'm not reaching as far that way, and I feel like I have better balance and my body can be more centered to the laser light. I have way more control using two hands. Just wish there was a door handle on the back of my machine! Just my humble opinion... it works for me As for the breaking thread, I did a panto yesterday and had the same issue.... I couldn't stitch through an entire row without 2 or 3 thread breaks. I had tested my stitching on a muslin sandwich before and it was all good. After much frustration and about a million trips around the machine, I loosened my top tension (quite abit actually) and I was able to finish the last 5 or 6 rows without one thread break.... I always have my bobbin tension really loose too. I've decided what works for me is to forget about the 3 or 4 inch drop test! I set my bobbin so that when I pick up the thread tail, it will raise the bobbin off it's side in my hand, but I cannot lift the bobbin off my hand. This "formula" seems to work for any type of thread I've tried so far.... So Fine, Bottomline, Rainbows.... (I've never used Rainbows in the bobbin though...I have been sticking to Bottomline or So Fine in the bobbin) Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belquilt Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I have noticed an increase in requests for Pantos lately with alot of my new customers and even my existing ones, And I think its because of the economy. Also, when I get a quilt that is "bumpy" I take a quick glance at the quilt before I quilt the next path and mark on the plastic where that bump is so I can slow down before I get to that point and if its real bad I will freemotion around it. Then I erase those marks, check the next path and move on. As for thread breakage, what thread type, top and bobbin, were you using? Was it something you always use or a new combo? Also, your speed, I know on my machine, I can do any speed from the back with no breakage, but when I use my girlfriend's machine, I had to slow down or the top thread would break. Is it the top or bottom thread breaking? I hate to see you give up on Pantos! I love doing them as a break from custom quilts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyLake Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I quilt pantos with both hands on the handles, but alternate controlling movement with one hand or both, depending on if it is detail/point work (both hands), or longer flowing lines (one hand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iquiltit Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I am glad to see I am not the only one to do only pantos. When I first started quilting I only used pantos and no one wanted to pay the price for custom. I had no incentive to try freehand.I hold both handles when I quilt panto.I would hate to see the results of one -handness. lol I know it has to do with speed more than thread. I don't have a sr but i have done so many I make a good consistent stitch. I sew with my machine full blast. lol Carol:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janette Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I loved doing my first panto, but the result was not that brilliant and I had used both hands, after reading on here a few weeks ago, about using one hand, I was shocked at the improvement it made! I will definitely be working with the one hand from now ! Although I did find it harder to switch the machine off as quickly and efficiently as I had no hand on the right hand switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecl Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I loved pantos when I was in business. They were fast (unless it was an intense design), the thread rarely broke and I ALWAYS held both handles (because I had better control). They were my bread and butter when making money. I also had my stitch control on so I didn't have to worry about consistent length. It did take ppp's to make the designs look good when I first started, but after awhile, I could do any new panto and it would look good because your hand, eyes and brain knew what to do. Don't give up on the panto's...there are many great designs out there. Just ppp, don't hesitate in corners (it can cause thread to break) and keep the movement smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Thanks for all your input. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has this problem. I am using the same thread combo that I usually use and I believe I'm moving smoothly. I am generally aware of what muscles I'm using and usually put my whole body into it, not just my arms so I can be smooth and consistent. I don't have mighty arms. Twigs rather. Cheryl mentioned hesitating in corners and how it can cause breaks. Sometimes I do stop completely in a corner so I can look to see if I have broken the top thread again. Do you think this could be part of the problem? I will loosen the thread even more. I'm not sure about that though because I'm afraid it will look loose on top. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merryjo2003 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I have found pantos that are quick and easy and every degree all the way to "never again!" I have categories for the pantos as well as the amount and density of custom work. Sometimes they're so dense they leave no margin for error and take forever. I have a couple that I put in the "never again" category, but after a year or so, here comes a quilt they would be perfect for. I did do them a second time and found them not quite as bad as I thought the first time. I just need a lot of time in between! I never seem to have any tension issues or breakage with my thread doing pantos. I just try to stay steady, hesitate slightly on sharp points to change direction. Pantos (most) are a welcome break for me after doing a lot of custom freehand. It's nice to just follow the line. Then I'm ready for more custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lib Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Jessica, I agree with Shana. When I first got my machine I couldn't do a panto withoug breaking the thread every couple of feet. I almost threw the machine out the window! It really does get better the more you practice. I use both hands on the handles, but, like Joan, I alternate the controlling movement. Don't get discouraged. Lib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 The only thing I would add to all that has been stated...is that you may not be realizing a jerky motion. The smooth fluid motion comes with practice. Even the tiny jerks will snap a thread...by totally stopping at points to look and plot your next motion might not effect the snapping threads as much as slowing down to a crawl getting your bearing and then jerking into the next motion. We all go through our own jerky motions and with time and practice they do smooth out and you get better. Driving with both hands I also find a must...as Darlene already mentioned, you have better control. But more importantly to me is if I stray off the line....WHO CARES...as long as its not a huge huge wondering and will look really really bad...I don't beat myself up over it...and just go on. Trying for perfection and not smoothness could be your biggest problem...conquer the smoothness first and then achieve the perfection. Be prepared to just a ton of PPP's...:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Another thing I just thought of. I have my stitch speed, or length, set at 13. Would a longer stitch length be better? 12 or 11 maybe? Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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